Writing Lyrics

[liampatrickingram]

Get ready for a really vague conversation starter, lol...

Does anyone else feel like they constantly struggle with writing lyrics that fit the music (mood wise)?  

I find I always have so many project files with almost complete songs that I never finish.  I know this is because I start recording before the song is finished but I get too excited to make the song instead of fine tuning things.  I find myself coming up with phrases that sound good with the music instead of developing story and meaning, so my songs end up being pretty cryptic and shallow.  So, what are your approaches to overcoming writer's block with lyrics?  Anyone have any good exercises? Do you usually write personally or try to detach yourself a bit (I find it hard to write about yourself without feeling like a self-absorbed narcissist lol...)

Liam

[liampatrickingram]

Yeah I've tried that a few times with horrible results I must say lol.

[TheGoodGoodMan]

I can give You a tip.
First to write about something You need to know what is that You want to write about. Then write about it, but don't be bothered by rhymes or counting of syllables. Don't write lyrics just yet, just write about the thing you decided to write about. Whatever You think is relevant. 
When You finished describing it "with your own words", try to put into the lyrics. You will probably at this point have a few lines worth keeping and sketch of the whole song. At this point You know exactly where you are going and won't be pushed astride by narcissistic ideas, assuming its not a narcissistic idea for a song    .
Hope it helps.
Good luck.

[JiggeryPokery]

Here's my method:

Fall in love. Then make sure you follow one of two possible paths:

1) Hope it remains unrequited
2) Hope it's requited but you then get dumped

After that lyrics are pretty easy

The most important tools for the lyricist are the thesaurus and rhyming dictionary. Just seeing a word you hadn't considered to the one you need to rhyme can often create new directions and be inspirational in itself.

If I have a piece of music that i feel would be suitable for words I tend to just improvise random lines and sometimes a line sticks and I take it from there. Sometimes you might think of a title as a starting point. Look for inspiration in what you see around you, let the lyrics be a journey. For example, Dressed in Water, which I reposted here in the music forum when we started this site, was written after I read some argumentative posting on PUF (some aimed at me), but for some reason I started thinking about war as well, so there are lots of references to names of missiles - "Firebrand (the fora!)", "Honest John", "Peacekeeper", "Exocet" etc. And of course eventually all the PH fora really was Firebranded! That wasn't even the first song I'd written inspired by a PUF bust-up

Likewise one of my other favourite tunes of mine from the past 12 months was, Get Out of Jail Free. It was just a title and the music. Then the trial of Rebeka Brooks and Andy Coulson started. For years I'd wanted to write a song about a trip round the (London) Monopoly board but couldn't find a way in. Suddenly it made sense bringing the two together and it came together quite quickly, chasing the pair of them across the various squares of Monopoly, such as Pentonville, also known as a famous London prison.

"For all the hotels outside
And barring all your freedoms
Where everyone can see you now
On Her Majesty’s Pentonville holiday
Aren’t you so glad that you came to stay?"



And indeed, it later transpired Brookes did get off. But Coulson didn't.

But all of us will write an enormous amount of shit lyrics to get only a few good ones... Wish I could write like that every day.

[pushedbutton]

Don't be sad
if your songs are bad
it will make you mad
but you will be glad
if you fill your pad
with some words you had
in your head.
Too much rhyming sucks
and too much repetition sucks too
yes too much repetition sucks too.
oh oh oh too much repetition sucks too.

[JNeffLind]

A good trick for me is to write songs in batches. I write pretty easily, in the sense that I never have issues coming up with ideas or executing them. (Not saying they're all great, but hopefully casting a large net will snare a few trophy fish).

Anyways, I usually work up about thirty sets of "complete" lyrics meaning a chorus and three verses and about sixty sets of riffs or chord progressions (enough of a melodic/harmonic idea that it seems like the foundation of a song). I do it sixty to thirty because it seems like I feel good about my lyrics a lot more consistently than I do my music.

Then I start matching them up. I take a day and go through all my musical ideas categorizing them as happy/upbeat/sad/introspective/neutral/etc. as well as ranking them on how strong I think they are on a 1-10 scale with different scores for verse and chorus progressions. Then I match them with sets of lyrics, trying to keep a larger eye on what all I have, using basic game theory strategy to make as many solid songs as possible and have as much as variety as possible.

This may not work for everyone, but I try to write a set of lyrics every day and usually a couple of musical ideas every day. Obviously one could do this with sets of ten and ten or whatever else.

TLDR: Write random lyrics. Write random music. Build up a stockpile. Then start matching parts that seem to fit.

[motuscott]

Then on the other hand Tom Waits singing seemingly random lines can make me cry. The world of words and vocalizing is a many layered thing.

[liampatrickingram]

A good trick for me is to write songs in batches. I write pretty easily, in the sense that I never have issues coming up with ideas or executing them. (Not saying they're all great, but hopefully casting a large net will snare a few trophy fish).

Anyways, I usually work up about thirty sets of "complete" lyrics meaning a chorus and three verses and about sixty sets of riffs or chord progressions (enough of a melodic/harmonic idea that it seems like the foundation of a song). I do it sixty to thirty because it seems like I feel good about my lyrics a lot more consistently than I do my music.

Then I start matching them up. I take a day and go through all my musical ideas categorizing them as happy/upbeat/sad/introspective/neutral/etc. as well as ranking them on how strong I think they are on a 1-10 scale with different scores for verse and chorus progressions. Then I match them with sets of lyrics, trying to keep a larger eye on what all I have, using basic game theory strategy to make as many solid songs as possible and have as much as variety as possible.

This may not work for everyone, but I try to write a set of lyrics every day and usually a couple of musical ideas every day. Obviously one could do this with sets of ten and ten or whatever else.

TLDR: Write random lyrics. Write random music. Build up a stockpile. Then start matching parts that seem to fit.

That's a really interesting approach - very logical way of doing things.  May have to give this a try one day.

[JNeffLind]

A good trick for me is to write songs in batches. I write pretty easily, in the sense that I never have issues coming up with ideas or executing them. (Not saying they're all great, but hopefully casting a large net will snare a few trophy fish).

Anyways, I usually work up about thirty sets of "complete" lyrics meaning a chorus and three verses and about sixty sets of riffs or chord progressions (enough of a melodic/harmonic idea that it seems like the foundation of a song). I do it sixty to thirty because it seems like I feel good about my lyrics a lot more consistently than I do my music.

Then I start matching them up. I take a day and go through all my musical ideas categorizing them as happy/upbeat/sad/introspective/neutral/etc. as well as ranking them on how strong I think they are on a 1-10 scale with different scores for verse and chorus progressions. Then I match them with sets of lyrics, trying to keep a larger eye on what all I have, using basic game theory strategy to make as many solid songs as possible and have as much as variety as possible.

This may not work for everyone, but I try to write a set of lyrics every day and usually a couple of musical ideas every day. Obviously one could do this with sets of ten and ten or whatever else.

TLDR: Write random lyrics. Write random music. Build up a stockpile. Then start matching parts that seem to fit.

That's a really interesting approach - very logical way of doing things.  May have to give this a try one day.

It really helps to take the pressure off, at least for me. Whenever I set out to write a certain kind of lyric or musical part, I end up coming up with something forced and stilted. When I wander, I usually stumble onto something decent. Serendipity takes care of the rest. As for if you get your batches ready and end up with left-overs that don't match, just stick them back in the tumbler for next time. EXCELSIOR!!!

[jappe]

Get ready for a really vague conversation starter, lol...

Does anyone else feel like they constantly struggle with writing lyrics that fit the music (mood wise)?  

I find I always have so many project files with almost complete songs that I never finish.  I know this is because I start recording before the song is finished but I get too excited to make the song instead of fine tuning things.  I find myself coming up with phrases that sound good with the music instead of developing story and meaning, so my songs end up being pretty cryptic and shallow.  So, what are your approaches to overcoming writer's block with lyrics?  Anyone have any good exercises? Do you usually write personally or try to detach yourself a bit (I find it hard to write about yourself without feeling like a self-absorbed narcissist lol...)

Liam

Yes, I struggle with that.
A tip is to just pick some old poetry, and try to make that inspire you to make the music.

Or think of a subject that makes you very angry, happy, sad, confused, and try focusing on that subject for a day. With some luck, you'll get inspired.

It could also be that some days are lyrics days, and some days are music days. Keep them both in store until you find a good match.

[Last Alternative]

Maybe 90% of the time my songs start with the hook. It hits me out of nowhere and I hear it in my head like it's on the radio. That actually helps to write the rest of the song because I can imagine how the whole song will play out like it's finished and out there in the world. I have to be excited about it or it's not worth my time.

Usually it's easy to write the rest of the chorus with the hook already there but then I wonder what I want to say in the verses. Sometimes it's the opposite and the verse hits me but I have to come up with a chorus. Rarely, but here and there, it starts with a beat or melody and I let the music tell me what it wants to say.

I have many notebooks from when I was 16 - now. Sometimes I refer to that but nowadays I sift thru my Word file called Random Thoughts which is pages of ideas I'm always adding to-- one-liners, phrases, etc. Maybe 7/10 x I find lyrics to use. My lyrics are a bunch of metaphors that explain the theme.

When I write a song it's lyrics & music at the same time so I don't have much advice since you're adding lyrics to music you wrote a while ago but I'd say just go with the feeling you had when you wrote the music- I think the lyrics should explain that.

If I'm really stuck I give it time. 100% of the time it all comes together on a walk and in the shower.
Godspeed.

[PSoames]

I've tried to write song lyrics, but I feel physically sick whenever I read them back. When I try to sing them, I actually gag on the words.

[pushedbutton]

I've tried to write song lyrics, but I feel physically sick whenever I read them back. When I try to sing them, I actually gag on the words.

This is why we need singstar karaoke mode, just fill in the words, assign a vocal guide midi track and sing your heart out till you get the top score!
The best way to face your fears is to turn them into something as trivial as a game.
I never really considered how difficult some people find it to put words to music or music to words until recently when I met a guy who really wants to write a song but had never been shown how, I try not let it phase me at least, but as you get to know more people you start to see what's stopping them from having the confidence to let out a stream of consciousness and refine it into a song.
Just bear in mind that you're always going to be your own strongest critic. I love criticism as long as it comes with a lesson. Never delete anything, thoughts provoke more thoughts, even if the thought is 'why did I think that?' ... I feel a song coming on.
If you want a truly honest opinion ask a stranger.

[PSoames]

...The best way to face your fears is to turn them into something as trivial as a game...

That's quite an interesting solution and one I think I could use.

It's even possible that I may inadvertently have begun to use this as a natural coping mechanism, by introducing spoken word into music, often with comic effect, just to start getting used to hearing my voice.

Thanks for the tips.

[Last Alternative]

I've tried to write song lyrics, but I feel physically sick whenever I read them back. When I try to sing them, I actually gag on the words.

My best advice is if it's something you really want to do then just do it with confidence- no matter what you think of the outcome. Learn from your recordings and your confidence will build over time if you keep at it. Practice singing and try your best. Be a legend in your own mind, but humble of course.

The worst thing would be to be old and grey looking back on a life of regret. You can't swim if you don't get in the water!

[liampatrickingram]

I've tried to write song lyrics, but I feel physically sick whenever I read them back. When I try to sing them, I actually gag on the words.

Don't forget too that not every song needs or works with beautiful, poetic lyrics.  Sometimes simple and straight forward is just what a track needs.  Some of my songs I am most proud of seem incredibly weak on paper but turn out good as a finished product.

[VOLCANIC]

For me writting lyrics is not a big deal as I don't stress myself too much of what making sense and what does not make sense as I change some of the words after wards

First what is important is a flow, you must just go withe flow of the beat and start off by writting a hook or chorus then the verse will just come.

Do NOT try to much to make sense on your lyrics at first.

I Repeat hamonise on the beat for the hook (which is a flow) then put one sentence at a time and write it down and get to the next then before you know it, the hook is done

[selfdude]

Great post and some really good ideas. Here is what I can contribute:

My approach is usually to make the music for the verse and chorus first. Usually on acoustic guitar or piano. Then usually the vocal melody, groove, and personality starts developing in my head.

Every song I write is about my anxiety so the subject matter is a given.

I try to only write lyrics in complete sentences. I usually think about what I want to say. I write it on a post it then play with it a bit. Perhaps adding or taking away a word to preserve the groove. The groove or rhytmn of the words is really important to me.

Sometimes I like to rhyme but really like similarly sounding words. They dont rhyme but they sound cool at the end of sentences.I also like ending phrases with a rhyming or closely related word to the first word of the next sentence.

Here are all three for example "A well fashioned metaphor. For expressing feelings and persistent doubts. A real lousy similie. Like somebody, somewhere doing something without."

Doubts and without dont really rhyme (doubt would but not doubts). Metaphor and for rhyme. Similie is realted to like because a similie is a comparison using like or as.

[mcatalao]

Don't be sad
if your songs are bad
it will make you mad
but you will be glad
if you fill your pad
with some words you had
in your head.
Too much rhyming sucks
and too much repetition sucks too
yes too much repetition sucks too.
oh oh oh too much repetition sucks too.

Instant hit man!!!

[guitfnky]

Get ready for a really vague conversation starter, lol...

Does anyone else feel like they constantly struggle with writing lyrics that fit the music (mood wise)?  

I find I always have so many project files with almost complete songs that I never finish.  I know this is because I start recording before the song is finished but I get too excited to make the song instead of fine tuning things.  I find myself coming up with phrases that sound good with the music instead of developing story and meaning, so my songs end up being pretty cryptic and shallow.  So, what are your approaches to overcoming writer's block with lyrics?  Anyone have any good exercises? Do you usually write personally or try to detach yourself a bit (I find it hard to write about yourself without feeling like a self-absorbed narcissist lol...)

Liam

I think if you're in this position, you're actually already in great shape.  

when you write stuff that sounds good with the music, in my experience (like yours), it tends to sound cryptic, but I don't think that makes it shallow.  for me, when I come up with something like that, if the sound of it really speaks to me, I'm better off just going with it, because it's really easy to capture the energy and vibe of the part, and that, I think, translates well, regardless of actual lyrical content (usually).  then, later on, when I actually think about the lyrics, I usually find that I was actually saying something after all, and I end up liking the whole song even more.

and as for writer's block, just keep plugging away.  you'll get better at avoiding creative ruts the more you do it.  I actually touched on this in my last YouTube video, if you're interested (sorry, shameless plug! ).