Racism: alive and well ..

[EnochLight]

Manners maketh man, as William Horman once said.

[pLansford]

Manners maketh man, as William Horman once said.

Try saying that to this guy when we start kicking all of the green people off the planet.

[pLansford]

Uh-oh Subby you're in trouble now. Master Yoda doesn't like racist comments and he will lead the Green Rebellion.

[Gardinski]

Well, that was weird. I was just casually catching up on Facebook and I think I've just stumbled across the thread which prompted this whole debacle. (The "Be a hero, get Zero" thingy, I presume).

What a bizarre incident. Obviously the guy who 'attacked' EnochLight managed to somehow misinterpret that image as a personal slight.. God knows how, as he was asking for opinions of 'Zero'. What struck me though was how rapidly all the other commentators rallied to Enoch's defence. That's a positive thing, surely.

(I must admit, when I first read this topic yesterday, I thought (as several others have) that EnochLight was probably being oversensitive, but having seen the original exchange in context, there's no question that it was an unprovoked attack. Nothing earth-shattering, but something that I think would have caused any of us to feel a bit unsettled if we'd been on the receiving end of it. EnochLight was merely trying to help someone, and was effectively told in no uncertain terms that he had no right to do so and that his input was unwelcome.)

I'd put it down to the other guy having a bad day and misconstruing a perfectly innocent comment on Enoch's part. If not, I think he's very much in the minority. I'm sure the majority of smart hip hop producers are shrewd entrepreneurs and as such are well aware of the need to cater to as wide an audience as possible.

I'd be curious to know what percentage of hip hop sales are driven by Caucasian consumers: white kids (and, apparently, white middle-aged English ex-pats in the Valleys!) who appreciate and want to buy into what the commentator seems to perceive as exclusively 'black culture'. I reckon it's a pretty even mix.

[Pinkbox]

Before this thread goes completely off topic...
I'm a white male, heterosexual, high middle class from Paris. I though I could NEVER suffer from racism (by racism here, I mean racism well integrated in a society or a system, not the racism from that one dumb guy). And then I moved to Montréal, and sometimes it was hard. The anti-french racism is weeeell integrated in the society, people were able to tell me highly racist shits, right in the eyes, in front of other peoples, and I was the only one caring, of course.
That make me remember I was in that camp at Burning Man once (you know, that place where obviously everybody loves everybody) , and the anti-french racism was going well there.

You can't really expect where it's gonna coming from. There's black people racists to black people, because they got a higher vision of being black than that (racist) image of what is being black coming from a white society's mind.

[Gardinski]

Yeah, I think Pinkbox raises a very good point. There's a BIG difference between 'Racism' (the nasty, institutionalised, systemic kind), and what EnochLight experienced: namely, the ignorance of one lone dude with a chip on his shoulder.

It's probably more akin to someone thinking that, say, anyone under 30 couldn't possibly appreciate music from 40 or 50 years ago because "they weren't there, man" - which is patently ridiculous. Or vice versa, that some 'old guy' couldn't possibly appreciate modern production techniques.

(By that logic, nobody over 20 should even be using Reason!)

[pLansford]

What a bizarre incident. Obviously the guy who 'attacked' EnochLight managed to somehow misinterpret that image as a personal slight.. God knows how, as he was asking for opinions of 'Zero'. What struck me though was how rapidly all the other commentators rallied to Enoch's defence. That's a positive thing, surely.

Ohhh I was under the impression that this happened in another forum as in outside of the Reason world. I haven't been around in a few days...actually was having a good time with an anonymous Reason user getting drunk and stuff in a hotel. Let's get back on topic of this racist stuff...my apologies. Reason users need to stop causing drama with each other for starters - it's really pathetic little man shit. I hereby sentence everybody to a full productive weekend of music-making. Ok I'm really going to sleep now.

Edit: well shit Mr. Light I wish you would've referenced the source of this. Hahaahaa this is the funniest shit I've seen all year.

[Fretless Fingers]

I know, I know - tell you something you don't already know! Still...

So, somewhere on the Internet (not here), today I was told that because my skin wasn't the right color, I was not qualified to have an opinion on a matter. It was also alluded to that, because of my skin color, I likely didn't like a particular genre of music. Both of these allegations are incorrect.

Having actually seen the interaction it was a complete miscommunication on his part, very similar to Kevin heart in "40 Year old Virgin"



What make the whole engagement so odd is how it was a obvious reference wrapped in an inside joke (although Game of Thrones is one of the most watched shows in the world so I wouldn't think it so excluding) that didn't correlate or make since to him. Him immediately jumping into a defensive position and attacking you was unnecessary and made him come off like an ass. The position he even took was so outlandish and indicative of a larger issue.
Now when multiple people he has spoken to outside that forum stated he was out of line and should apologize he went a different direction; considering even if you possibly could have accidentally/intentionally offended him he decided to double down on his statements, thinking he had some kind of moral high ground. It was immature and unprofessional.

Although I've only spoken to him regarding help with issues and tips, and I'm in no way his representative, I feel I must apologize.
I'm sorry.
His interaction was immature and even amateur in his understanding of music production tropes and racial bias and makes the effort put forth by so many seem wasted.

I've attempted to speak with him directly since the incident with no response. If I do hear back from him and it's worth your time being notified what he has said, I'll keep you informed.

[EnochLight]

You all make a lot of great points; cheers fellas. In hindsight, it's really not a big deal. I was just interested in seeing other people's experiences. I will say this: despite racism being a deeply ingrained problem in the U.S. (and throughout the world), I'm proud that my daughter is growing up in a world where an African-American man was elected POTUS - twice. We've still got a shitload of hate in our blood, but we're making steps forward slowly. This is a good thing.

[gak]

@hate: More from one side than the other. Having criminal activity shoved down your throat until you gag wretchedly isn't exactly "being enlightened" LL cool J said it best (paraphrasing) "I'm tired of hating on whites when I'm so successful"

I didn't start this topic.

[chimp_spanner]

I've heard it said that racism can only be perpetrated by those with the power to exercise it, which would preclude the possibility that a black person (for example) could be racist towards a white person.

Personally, I don't feel that way. Racism, to me, is denying someone the same respect/courtesy/decency that you would offer someone else because of their race. It's making a character judgement without knowing anything about them beyond what you can see. Power structures amplify this and manifest it as restrictions on liberty, violence, oppression, but at the heart of it, it's one person seeing another person as lesser than themselves. So I think it's possible for white people to be the "victims" of racism, although clearly not in the same way that minorities are. And I suppose that is an important distinction to make.

What I particularly dislike though is that (thanks to the online social justice movement) "white hetero male" has become an acceptable slur. I fully acknowledge the problems with racism in my country. But I flat out refuse to take responsibility for it because I happen to share the same pigmentation as the people perpetrating it. You can't fight racism with racism.

[EnochLight]

I've heard it said that racism can only be perpetrated by those with the power to exercise it, which would preclude the possibility that a black person (for example) could be racist towards a white person.

Personally, I don't feel that way. Racism, to me, is denying someone the same respect/courtesy/decency that you would offer someone else because of their race. It's making a character judgement without knowing anything about them beyond what you can see. Power structures amplify this and manifest it as restrictions on liberty, violence, oppression, but at the heart of it, it's one person seeing another person as lesser than themselves. So I think it's possible for white people to be the "victims" of racism, although clearly not in the same way that minorities are. And I suppose that is an important distinction to make.

What I particularly dislike though is that (thanks to the online social justice movement) "white hetero male" has become an acceptable slur. I fully acknowledge the problems with racism in my country. But I flat out refuse to take responsibility for it because I happen to share the same pigmentation as the people perpetrating it. You can't fight racism with racism.

Great points; thanks!

I didn't start this topic.

Sexism/misogyny are an entirely different subject.

[Namahs Amrak]

White folks seem to be drawn to methamphetamines more than any other culture.

Haha whiteys.

[Last Alternative]

The only race is the human race.

[EnochLight]

The only race is the human race.

Truth.

[Namahs Amrak]

The only race is the human race.

Exactly. Which is why I try and use the term 'culture' rather than 'race'.

[EnochLight]

The only race is the human race.

Truth.

http://www.newsweek.com/there-no-such-thing-race-283123

[jfrichards]

The only race is the human race.

So true, and genetics and evolutionary anthropology both confirm that we are all African. Every cell of every person in every country is African. Even those who may have feint traces of other species (Neanderthal, Erectus, etc) are still 100% African because both of those species originated in Africa also. We are one African species. The universal response to rhythm and melody is one among many indicators of our common heritage. Music itself is African, made by Africans of of every skin color.

Racism is a cancerous idea created by rulers to rule.

[CharlyCharlzz]

maybe you are too white ....?!?!

LOL

my view is that there are some peoples with Lower IQ's but they get grouped naturaly and form stuff like the Mafia .

Colors is the original visual part of life and we all Lucky to see it unlike many living beings .

[Namahs Amrak]

maybe you are too white ....?!?!

White privileged guilt often translates into "but but but, THEY are racist against ME".

[CharlyCharlzz]

maybe you are too white ....?!?!

White privileged guilt often translates into "but but but, THEY are racist against ME".

I am always amazed to see how some are rascist's , spacialy other races LOL

I am not easy on peoples over the internet , for exemple I been super hard on Faroe's these days but I have nothing against this origine !

I hate there whale hunting crap so I act like a Faroe hater to put shame on most and force reactions .

I noticed things been sayed to me the exact same way by peoples like me when I get put into a genre from somebody being against that genre .

I once sayed Chris Kyle was a dick on a forum and had a fake military wanna be calling me a monkey and various other names with or without sexual aand color content but unluly the guy was to find out I was not like he imagined LOL

[Namahs Amrak]

I wasn't sure what 'Faroe's are', so had to look it up. Basically the slow, mentally challenged little brothers to Denmark. Kinda like New Zealand is to Australia.

I've got an Indian friend, and she's extremely racist.. only against other Indians. Does that even count ?

[Ronin]

I wasn't sure what 'Faroe's are', so had to look it up. Basically the slow, mentally challenged little brothers to Denmark. Kinda like New Zealand is to Australia.

For someone claiming not to be racist, youre doing a pretty good job of it.

[Namahs Amrak]

You clearly dont have an understanding of the regular banter between Australians and Kiwi's. I have never once in my life heard a New Zealander complain about racist comments from an Aussie, despite the regular jokes.

[gak]

BTW, my comments were not directed at "enoch" as much as that this is an old subject, that I don't feel falls into anything other than the "not so much kitchen" category where I can if necessary fire up the "new one" ripper and school you all......but don't really want to...kinda thing.

Again, I can give you 600 racist stories that SHOULD make your skin crawl (but won't) so I'm having a tough time understanding why this is here? There are not many people in the world that have not suffered crewly at the hands of racism. But this isn't really the right forum for this stuff IMNSHO.