I got pickpocketed the other day and this is how it turned out

[swamptooth]

after work, I hopped on the first train that came - an M Ingleside - because I had a $20 Coinstar voucher from the night before I had to redeem at the Church and Market Safeway. At the Civic Center stop a very hungover and likely still inebriated man got on the train and sat in the seat in front of me. I had a couple of more stops to go, and it turned out we both were disembarking at Church St. Station. As I was walking off, another passenger who was exiting said, “Hey man, he just grabbed your cell phone”. I was taken aback, because I’d never been pickpocketed before… Robbed by gunpoint, yes, pickpocketed no. I checked my jacket pocket and sure enough my phone was missing…
I said to the man, “I’d like my phone back”. He had his left hand plunged into a pair of grungy sweats and was shaking slightly. He responded, “I don’t have your phone… I don’t know what you’re talking about…”. The young man who saw him take it said, “Yeah he does, I saw him grab it”. The entire front row of passengers tensed up - either out of fear of confrontation or anticipation of it. We all walked off the train, and I was explaining to the man that it was a cheap phone not worth more than $50 (well, ok, $100). The young man who alerted me to the situation offered to call 911, and I said, “I’d appreciate that a lot”. We were all riding up the escalator together, the offender looking sheepish and the young man dialing. At the top of the escalator, the pickpocket pulled his hand out of his sweats and gave me my phone back.
I thanked the young man for being willing to call 911 and we all walked out the stalls. I walked about 20 feet, waiting for a confrontation, but none ever occurred. Once the feeling of being violated and robbed wore off, I stopped and turned around. The man who stole my phone was leaned up against the wall, shaking his head. I took a deep breath, looked down at my feet, and remembered when I had been in that kind of position...
I walked back up to him and said, “I thanked the other guy, but I didn’t thank you… you did the right thing just now. Thanks. Do you need something to eat?”
He looked at me, dumbfounded, and said, “Yeah, that would help…”
We got up to the street, talked about our stories of homelessness, shared a couple of cigarettes… I was just going to buy him a slice of pizza or a burrito until I remembered why I was even on that train to begin with.
I told him, “Hey, I wouldn’t even be here if I didn’t have this $20 voucher from some change I turned in last night after customer service was closed, let’s walk over to Safeway and I’ll turn it in and it’s yours because you decided to do the right thing…”
He was nervous at first, probably thinking I would get the off-duty cops who work the Safeway involved, but as we walked and talked he began to realize I was being honest.
We talked about where to go when you lose a shelter reservation, where to get medical care, how to deal with the Public Assistance system in SF.
I cashed the voucher, gave him 20 bucks and said, “You did the right thing tonight, just keep doing it and things will turn out OK. Take care of yourself and don’t get stuck…”
We parted ways, and I could only think about how I was so mad at someone about 20 minutes earlier only to turn it around into something hopefully positive for both of us.
So, thanks to the unknown stranger who let me know I’d been robbed and to Greg, the man who robbed me who gave me a chance to act with compassion instead of anger.

[HepCat]

Wow that is heartwarming

Bear in mind though, a psychopathic / antisocial personality disorder will [privately] despise you for helping him / her, because in their own mind they are the centre of the universe and you are the heretic suggesting otherwise (as if they need you). Hope that doesn't put you off charity, but l'd do so at a safe distance. Just my 2 pence, be careful dude. Peace

[jonheal]

Good job!! It's always right to do the right thing, regardless of the risk.

[dhruan]

Bear in mind though, a psychopathic / antisocial personality disorder will [privately] despise you for helping him / her, because in their own mind they are the centre of the universe and you are the heretic suggesting otherwise (as if they need you). Hope that doesn't put you off charity, but l'd do so at a safe distance. Just my 2 pence, be careful dude. Peace

Now, where did that enter into the equation? Did anything in the original post suggest that the person in question would suffer from such a condition? Or what? Would be interesting to find out what you meant with your post.

Anyway, to the OP I would like to say my heart felt thank you! You displayed admirable character and have helped me affirm my faith in humanity (at least on your part). So thanks, I can only wish that I could handle such situations with the grace, tact and understanding you portrayed. In short, you are a good human being, a true mensch (something I strive to be, every day)

[Marco Raaphorst]

Well that was nice of you. Great story to share. Thanks and cheers!

[chk071]

Don't think i would have helped, or been "grateful" that the guy turned over the phone, after being threatened by calling the police really. Your decision of course. I wouldn't have given the guy anything, or communicated with him afterwards. Handing back stolen goods after fearing that police will be involved is not "the right thing" for me. But then, i'm not living in the U.S. either. Sometimes it appears to me that half of the citizens there already have dealt with the law in some places.

[normen]

Don't think i would have helped, or been "grateful" that the guy turned over the phone, after being threatened by calling the police really. Your decision of course. I wouldn't have given the guy anything, or communicated with him afterwards. Handing back stolen goods after fearing that police will be involved is not "the right thing" for me. But then, i'm not living in the U.S. either. Sometimes it appears to me that half of the citizens there already have dealt with the law in some places.

Hm.. Can't you sympathize with being in a desperate situation and doing something "wrong" by law? Or being caught with a lie and not instantly admitting to it? You do know that there is something called "Mundraub" in german law, right?

Good on you swamptooth!

[chk071]

Mundraub for a mobile phone... thanks for the laugh. Apart from that, neither you or me really knows whether the guy was desperate or not. And the guy couldn't know whether the OP is desperate or not either. Strange attitude. "Hey, i'm desperate, let me take your mobile phone, because i really need it.". What if i worked my ass off for my phone, and i don't want some punk who didn't work for anything grab my property?

You know what, thinking about it, i guess you have a point. Maybe next time i'm desperate, i'm gonna steal the handbag of that old lady i see in the train, and cut her out of her poor pension. Maybe, after she caught me doing so, she has sympathy with me, and gives me the rest of the stuff in her handbag too.

[HepCat]

Bear in mind though, a psychopathic / antisocial personality disorder will [privately] despise you for helping him / her, because in their own mind they are the centre of the universe and you are the heretic suggesting otherwise (as if they need you).

Now, where did that enter into the equation? Did anything in the original post suggest that the person in question would suffer from such a condition? Or what? Would be interesting to find out what you meant with your post.

~ I explained, it's a risk, not a definite.
~ I never said that thief in particular would be psychopathic / antisocial personality disorder.
~ As it happens, l do think stealing phones could be seen as an antisocial personality trait, and psychopathic. Note also that psychopaths are often quite daring, stealing phones on trains kind of daring.
~ Also, biting the hand that feeds, is nothing new. These things happen.
~ Also, sometimes you need to come down to a person's level rather than show them a lot of empathy all at once, otherwise, even if they're not psychopathic, it can still feel like something alien being imposed onto the person's world (and it could even feel like you're saying their life's been b/s until they met you). You already know this from past girlfriends.

Good job!! It's always right to do the right thing, regardless of the risk.

Turning the thief over to the police would also be a right thing (crime gets punished, and perhaps the guy wanted a bed for the night, in a cell, or yes, maybe he was good will hunting), perhaps just as much as befriending the guy. Shakespeare: "the quality of mercy is not strained", i.e. you don't have to be kind, i.e. it's not "the" right thing, it was over and above other right things.

[normen]

Mundraub for a mobile phone... thanks for the laugh. Apart from that, neither you or me really knows whether the guy was desperate or not. And the guy couldn't know whether the OP is desperate or not either. Strange attitude. "Hey, i'm desperate, let me take your mobile phone, because i really need it.". What if i worked my ass off for my phone, and i don't want some punk who didn't work for anything grab my property?

You know what, thinking about it, i guess you have a point. Maybe next time i'm desperate, i'm gonna steal the handbag of that old lady i see in the train, and cut her out of her poor pension. Maybe, after she caught me doing so, she has sympathy with me, and gives me the rest of the stuff in her handbag too.

Maybe somebody worked hard to harvest apples as well. According to the law somebody stealing some of these apples because he was hungry and had no money would not constitute a crime, no matter if he's a "punk that didn't work for anything" or not. If I get your point of view correctly you would change that law - well okay, we have different view points here.

[HepCat]

Maybe somebody worked hard to harvest apples as well. According to the law somebody stealing some of these apples because he was hungry and had no money would not constitute a crime, no matter if he's a "punk that didn't work for anything" or not. If I get your point of view correctly you would change that law - well okay, we have different view points here.

Although Chewbacca is a Wookie ...

[normen]

Glad to see that despite all the recent talk about the wage gap and declining economies there seem to be so many people unacquainted with desperate situations.

My grandparents told me many stories of them or others breaking one law or the other and people still being sympathetic with that. Be it being out on the road after 8 o'clock - with the chance of being shot dead right on the street (according to the objective law) - to get some food to their parents or be it stealing cigarettes from soldiers to pay for their next meal.

Its easy to blame people for their life situation but I dare say that only a very small minority of people actively steer towards desperate situations.

[chk071]

Mundraub for a mobile phone... thanks for the laugh. Apart from that, neither you or me really knows whether the guy was desperate or not. And the guy couldn't know whether the OP is desperate or not either. Strange attitude. "Hey, i'm desperate, let me take your mobile phone, because i really need it.". What if i worked my ass off for my phone, and i don't want some punk who didn't work for anything grab my property?

You know what, thinking about it, i guess you have a point. Maybe next time i'm desperate, i'm gonna steal the handbag of that old lady i see in the train, and cut her out of her poor pension. Maybe, after she caught me doing so, she has sympathy with me, and gives me the rest of the stuff in her handbag too.

Maybe somebody worked hard to harvest apples as well. According to the law somebody stealing some of these apples because he was hungry and had no money would not constitute a crime, no matter if he's a "punk that didn't work for anything" or not. If I get your point of view correctly you would change that law - well okay, we have different view points here.

What kind of law are you talking about here? Someone who stole your mobile phone would be declared guilty in front of any court, no matter how desperate he is.

[normen]

What kind of law are you talking about here? Someone who stole your mobile phone would be declared guilty in front of any court, no matter how desperate he is.

Yes, you are right - he might get away if he instantly sold that phone to buy some food though. Anyway, sticking strictly to whatever law applies in your circumstance is an easy way to look at wrong/right, I don't want to take that from you. Be it cutting off hands, killing people or just fining them - if thats fine for you then be it so.

[chk071]

What kind of law are you talking about here? Someone who stole your mobile phone would be declared guilty in front of any court, no matter how desperate he is.

Yes, you are right - he might get away if he instantly sold that phone to buy some food though.

No, not really. Why do you think he would? And what kind of a signal would that be to a working society? That you can just take a dump on laws, and rules, and, especially, your fellow citizens, and steal the next ones property, and sell it to make a living? Come on...

Btw, i'm sorry about my first reply to you, which was pretty harsh, so, my apologies. It's just that this kind of culprit - victim twisting is really something which is very present in our world these days, and kind of makes me angry, because there's always talk, and sympathy for the culprit, instead of the victim really. I mean, what if the OP, and others didn't even notice the theft, and the OP was the one who's in a desperate situation, needing everything he can get, and he has no money to get a new phone, which he thoroughly needed? I just don't get this twisting around, and trying to find excuses, and paying sympathy to the person who robbed another. There's no excuse for that. He could also just sit down on the corner, play guitar, and ask for funds. WTH really... there's even sympathy for people who suicide bombed inside a group of other people, just because he, in his sick minded, felt mobbed, and thought that was a reason to kill innocent people. What is this kind of world we build ourselves with remorse, and understanding towards people who had no remorse for others, when they killed people who had absolutely nothing to do with their personal problems? That's just, sorry, sick.

[normen]

No, not really. Why do you think he would? And what kind of a signal would that be to a working society? That you can just take a dump on laws, and rules, and, especially, your fellow citizens, and steal the next ones property, and sell it to make a living? Come on...

Because the attorney might argue that in that case it is a kind of Mundraub ("petty larceny of food" for any english speaking people who might still follow).

[chk071]

Yes, an attorney could and would argue that way. Yet we have laws, and the laws state that you must not steal. An attorney might moderate the sentence that way, but it won't lead to a not-guilty verdict, if there is proof that he stole the mobile phone. And it's good like that. Otherwise, as i wrote, i can just use any excuse to commit a crime.

[normen]

Yes, an attorney could and would argue that way. Yet we have laws, and the laws state that you must not steal. An attorney might moderate the sentence that way, but it won't lead to a not-guilty verdict, if there is proof that he stole the mobile phone. And it's good like that. Otherwise, as i wrote, i can just use any excuse to commit a crime.

People always try to excuse their ways in some way if they're put into question, obviously. But this whole thread revolves around whats the "right thing" (outside of the law) in a given situation. In this case there was one possible outcome and the actual outcome. The first would have been putting a bum into jail and getting the phone back - possibly teaching the bum that stealing can lead to consequences but I highly doubt that was unknown to him. The latter was getting the phone back and giving somebody attention and an opinion which might very well leave a lasting impression on him that doing the "right thing" isn't all that hard - even in dire situations. I strongly favor the actual outcome - even if the bum was a psychopath and didn't learn anything.

And reading back on your edit of the previous post - you live in a happy and easy world, not all people do. If you had lived just 70 years ago in Germany and your sister was out on the street after 8 o'clock and you see a Russian solider putting her down on her knees, putting his gun to her head - would you not do something about it just because thats the law? If you were living in a Russian village five years before and see German soldiers marauding and demanding all the food from your fellow villagers in the middle of the winter would you tell the soldiers that somebody kept some food for themselves? The world isn't black and white. For some people its not easy to reason and say "well I can make money some way" - the unattended phone of that "obviously rich kid" might look like your best option to get out of your situation.

[jonheal]

All I meant by my comment is that it is good to be kind. Even to those who mistreat us. It's literally the only thing that keeps the (human) world from devolving into complete self-serving chaos.

Also, I am the worst at practicing what I preach, so I need the lesson more than anyone.

[kuhliloach]

There is a lot of important information on that thing especially if it doesn't lock with some kind of security, not to mention how expensive those things are. You learned to better guard your phone and be more aware. You got a deal. The other guy got lucky.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Nice read and well done reacting the way you did... fingers crossed that you got through to him...

[Gorgon]

Now, where did that enter into the equation? Did anything in the original post suggest that the person in question would suffer from such a condition? Or what? Would be interesting to find out what you meant with your post.

Nobody is allowed to have a different view, we all need to say "awww" and sing kum ba ya?

You could also view it this way. The guy made 20 quid by attempting to steal a phone.

[dhruan]

Oh dear, oh dear... my main beef was with the use of medical terms describing a mental disorder used in a very care free manner. I really do not like it when people do that and all the connotations it implied. In short, I'd rather not have people use words like "psychotic" without being clinical psychologists or well versed in psychology.


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[pushedbutton]

Hey Swamptooth, I think you did something that would end wars and bring about a Utopian society if more of us had the courage to think that way. Sometimes seeing the big picture is the last thing any of us want to do when we feel slighted, but hopefully you'd made an impact on his life that will help to correct her course. I'm sure anyone would agree that 99 times out of 100 it's seems to be a futile gesture but that 1 time when the butterfly flaps it's wings and prevents the fire is worth making the effort for. Would I have done that? I think not kicking his ass would have been enough of a good dead for me, but then I wasn't there, I didn't look him in the eye, maybe I would have taken pity too, I'd like to think I'm at least capable of such kindness. Thanks for your story, I'm humbled.

[HepCat]

Oh dear, oh dear... my main beef was with the use of medical terms describing a mental disorder used in a very care free manner. I really do not like it when people do that and all the connotations it implied. In short, I'd rather not have people use words like "psychotic" without being clinical psychologists or well versed in psychology

Hello.

I used the term psychopathic personality disorder correctly. I used the term antisocial personality disorder correctly. I have explained thrice now (including this post) that l never once said that the person stealing the phone was a psychopath or with antisocial personality disorder.

I know l'm going to regret this, but: I never once used the term psychotic, it's a different disorder. You do know that, don't you?

I know l'm going to regret this, but: yes, the robber may even have been psychotic, or the person doing the good deed may have been, in the robber's mind, psychotic, and thus it could have triggered some sort of streetwise response e.g. a punch in the face from the robber. Hell, both parties may have been psychotic, now that's where it gets interesting.

I know l'm going to regret this, but: I'm fairly well versed in psychology, enough to know that knowing psychology in any great depth is not relevant to anything l've said, as l've only stated the obvious.