Lets be honest :)

[Gorgon]

Again a reminder that namecalling is NOT allowed, not even in the kitchen.
Please revisit https://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.ph ... ig#p289235

Sorry about that, I edited my inebriated post.

[plaamook]

1) A friend of mine once said you've got about 6 month on coke during which you can get loads of stuff done and have mad amazing ideas. After six months whatever is going on you have to drop that shit though because you're probably getting psychotic by then. Sounds good to me. Not my favourite drug but I can see where he's going from.

2) Talking to a chap I knew who works in neuroscience. I said to him that if they made a drug that had no other effect than to allow you to absolutely focus your mind and not get distracted with whatever tast was before you, Sign Me Up!!!. I was kidding really but he said there were many such drugs. The problem according to him is that while they do indeed allow you to focus they also wreck creative thinking. According to him artists he's worked with won't go anywhere near em. They prefer the rollercoaster to the flatline. I can understand that.

[avasopht]

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

Wait wait wait, isn't that the whole point of a hallucinogenic substance

On the other hand I'd say that "creative techniques" aren't about creating what isn't there but providing a framework of thought that will lead you in to places you wouldn't have otherwise explored.

The framework of chromatic notes is a creative device. It's just so in our face we don't even realise it's there deciding not only our tuning but available harmonies before we've even sat down.

A Tony Robbins seminar presents you with specific questions. Those questions will make you look into places you wouldn't have that will make you much more able to solve your problems.

That is also how counselling works. They don't need to tell you what to think, instead they ask the right questions for you to answer. But you'd not have answered that question because the question was beyond your scope of thought.

Likewise for hallucinogenic substances. They will provide you with input to inspire what would not have otherwise been inspired.

I'll also add that it's nigh impossible for those who have not experienced the effect of psychotropic drugs to ever truly comprehend the nature of their effects, it's just so far beyond the capabilities of language or even imagery to ever come close to communicating the experience. The experiences are as distinct from this life as life is from non life.

[selig]

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

Wait wait wait, isn't that the whole point of a hallucinogenic substance

On the other hand I'd say that "creative techniques" aren't about creating what isn't there but providing a framework of thought that will lead you in to places you wouldn't have otherwise explored.

The framework of chromatic notes is a creative device. It's just so in our face we don't even realise it's there deciding not only our tuning but available harmonies before we've even sat down.

A Tony Robbins seminar presents you with specific questions. Those questions will make you look into places you wouldn't have that will make you much more able to solve your problems.

That is also how counselling works. They don't need to tell you what to think, instead they ask the right questions for you to answer. But you'd not have answered that question because the question was beyond your scope of thought.

Likewise for hallucinogenic substances. They will provide you with input to inspire what would not have otherwise been inspired.

I'll also add that it's nigh impossible for those who have not experienced the effect of psychotropic drugs to ever truly comprehend the nature of their effects, it's just so far beyond the capabilities of language or even imagery to ever come close to communicating the experience. The experiences are as distinct from this life as life is from non life.

You are confirming my point, right? That drugs, meditation, guided meditation/counseling do not themselves "create" anything - at their best they reveal what was there all along by helping you learn where to look!

Or did I mis-read your comments?

[HepCat]

i used to smoke weed and make music, it was good for the first 10 days, but after that, it got too much like the same old same old zombie feeling (would need a break of several months to get that feeling back - but l no longer smoke anything, let alone weed - smoking really does kill you and when you realise you've got cancer you will probably poop yourself right there, from the shock - and l hope nobody on this forum gets cancer including myself).

Much can be said for the hangover the day after you've tried ecstasy, quite depressing yet inspirational.

As for making music while on speed / ecstasy - sure, it's easier, but listen to it the next day, it's utter rubbish! I once spoke to a guy that had DJed while on ecstasy - he had made a total ass of himself thinking he was actually mixing tunes well, and everybody was annoyed.

As for music on hallucinogens ... hmm ok, if you can make the hardware stop fluctuating or dissolving into rectangles (l used to like hallucinogens tho, but never tried composing on them).

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

What about inspiration?

That is also how counselling works. They don't need to tell you what to think, instead they ask the right questions for you to answer. But you'd not have answered that question because the question was beyond your scope of thought.

Likewise for hallucinogenic substances. They will provide you with input to inspire what would not have otherwise been inspired.

I'll also add that it's nigh impossible for those who have not experienced the effect of psychotropic drugs to ever truly comprehend the nature of their effects ...

I'm quite certain that counselling is mainly to give you answers. Of course, once you have the answers, you realise the answers were already in you, because the answers use the English language and you have the vocabulary in you already.

When someone tells you 24 / 6 = 4, you realise the number 4 was in you all along, and just needed the right question to be asked. The right question is the one that gives you the right answer, so it's all predicated on getting the right answer, that's what counts.

You then say hallucinogens inspire something into you that wasn't there before. That is more akin to being given the answers, than being asked the right questions.

As for not comprehending psychotropics without trying them, l've always said that l had a good concept of ecstasy and LSD before l ever tried them. Of course, not a full concept

1) A friend of mine once said you've got about 6 month on coke during which you can get loads of stuff done and have mad amazing ideas. After six months whatever is going on you have to drop that shit though because you're probably getting psychotic by then. Sounds good to me. Not my favourite drug but I can see where he's going from.

I go by albums rather than bands, and as far as l'm aware, Megadeth have only made one good album, the rest of their back catalogue is poo.

The one good album = "Rust In Peace". Apparently Dave Mustaine had a cocaine problem throughout that album so yeah what you say about 6 months rings true, because that album was fantastic.

2) Talking to a chap I knew who works in neuroscience. I said to him that if they made a drug that had no other effect than to allow you to absolutely focus your mind and not get distracted with whatever tast was before you, Sign Me Up!!!. I was kidding really but he said there were many such drugs.

Probably amphetamines. Bad news in the long run. They'd turn a saint into a psychopath given enough time.

[Vince-Noir-99]

Whilst some drugs may enhance a person's creative output, this all happens while the person's perception is also enhanced or (most likely) deceived. Hence the classic situation of listening back to some 'dope jam' from last nite and realising it's quite bad after all

Having said that, substances for a performance kick, as the equivalent of a sportsman's doping, do not seem like a reliable method towards success. On the other hand, substances for the occasional alteration of the perception of reality can be a huge source of inspiration in music as well as any other aspect of life (assuming there are no accidents or dependency issues etc). Mushrooms can be very helpful in helping self and global awareness.

[TritoneAddiction]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here already. The creativity is already in you, you just have to get out off the way to let it happen.
Isn't it all about getting out of you're own head? For me what kills creativity is too much thinking and self criticism. It could also be subconscious thoughts like: "Is this in line with my self identity?", "Is this good/bad/weird?", "What will other people think of this/me?".

You want to allow any random idea without questioning or judging it. At least that's how I feel. After all isn't that what most substances and alcohol do? Remove the excessive thinking or self criticizing so that you can act more freely, bravely or even dumb?
It doesn't necessarily mean you need drugs or alcohol for this. It might help in some cases, but I don't think it's needed if you have other ways to achieve this mental state.

Imo there's a time for the analytical, more structured way of doing things during music making too, but not when you come up with the initial ideas. For me the analytical side is more associated with the disciplined "getting shit done" part of music making, which also has its place, at least if you actually want to finish the tracks you started

I don't know, I'm sure it's different for everyone. But for me it's all about getting rid off the excessive thinking when coming up with creative ideas. It's better to just be and allow shit to happen without putting any judgement on it.

[selig]

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

What about inspiration?

Inspiration is like feelings IMO - you can't "create" them but you can evoke them.

One doesn't create "love" for example, but an evocative poem or song can inspire feelings of love.

Put another way, one is not creating inspiration by listening to music, experiencing nature, or having a stimulating conversation. But rather one is "inspired" (hopefully!) by those experiences to create other things.

It's like asking "can you create wonder?". No, but you can inspire or evoke wonder IMO.

I'm obviously talking about my ass now, since this is all semantics at this point!

[avasopht]

You are confirming my point, right? That drugs, meditation, guided meditation/counseling do not themselves "create" anything - at their best they reveal what was there all along by helping you learn where to look!

Or did I mis-read your comments?

Sort of. As in, they're sort of there, but if they're only accessible by stimulation of the endocannabinoid system then are they really "there?"

[Noplan]

I have tried almonst all sorts of substances while making music. Some of them provide a high level of perseverance and happiness temporarily.

No matter what chords you choose, you'll find them awesome. In a sober state you would never have continued with them. And then you choose a simple shaker and it is the best shaker in the world for you.

And then you go on and on. Line after Line you notice that you are 3 days without sleep in the studio and you are thinking that you have created the best song in the world. In that condition you come up with ideas (good and bad) on which you would never have come, because your perception is manipulated. You are euphoric. You have created something diffrent than you normally would do.

After the high comes the deep and you fall in depression for a week or two after such excessive consumption.

You listen to your new track and it is the worst track that you have ever done. And then you listen to your other tracks and they are miserable too. your perception is tricked again, because you fucked your dopamine system.

After a regeneration you listen to you new track again and you are wondering about some crazy shit you have done, but some parts are not that bad.

And the moral of this story is that taking substances are not worth the outcome. Keep in mind that health is most important for your creativity. And some substances can destroy it in the long run.

[selig]

In reading these responses all I can say is what works (or doesn't work) for some won't work for others. I've heard stories of folks thinking they are the bees knees when "high", only to find it's not that great when they are not - and others with the opposite experience.

To each their own, and when I say that I'm assuming moderation - if you lack self control you need to consider abstaining IMO!

[Bloma]

What do you think guys i now this is kind of strange question but i was thinking does "prohibited substances" you know what i mean can help you in creativity?

One thing to be wary of is your brain on psychedelics fucking with electrical signals. I took mushies and went to make music, and my midi keyboard didn't work. It never worked again. I had to buy a new one. Also, iTunes was not responding to any key presses, and it's literally never done it before. There's heaps of stories of people taking shrooms/acid/psychs and it completely screwing with electronics. But other than that, yeah it's good fun

[gak]

No, I agree about the "substances" doesn't make "creativity" w/o something being there in first place.

Fact, many of our favorite songs/music is "under the influence" ... to think otherwise is naive at best.

But again, as stated, it's not an "is all/end all" either way.

Simply enjoy. Either way. The only real issue I have is with legality. If it's illegal, than there is a reason. Again, I'm voting (again) for it to be. Many reasons even though I don't smoke dope.........

[Olivier]

Ah drugs, the brain's control-voltage modulator.
Acting on both the internal creator as well as the internal observer.

In the end its what mentioned here before.. personal preference/what works for you... etc.
As long as your substance use doesn't negatively affect my world, i don't care what you put in your brain

[Gorgon]

Simply enjoy. Either way. The only real issue I have is with legality. If it's illegal, than there is a reason. Again, I'm voting (again) for it to be. Many reasons even though I don't smoke dope.........

There's thousands of substances that are hundreds of times more dangerous than marijuana and are commonly available. I don't believe in the whole Big Pharma conspiracy (about keeping marijuana illegal because it supposedly miraculously cures all kinds of diseases) but there is absolutely no reason for it to be illegal when there's so much other stuff to damage your body with (cigs, alcohol, glue, gasoline).

The only reason is "drugs are bad mmmkay?" and legalizing marijuana is the first step to decriminalising all drugs, which means admitting that the "war on drugs" (which is unwinnable) is lost and that's something that the old farts in the government will never want to admit.

[HepCat]

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

What about inspiration?

Inspiration is like feelings IMO - you can't "create" them but you can evoke them.

One doesn't create "love" for example, but an evocative poem or song can inspire feelings of love.

Yep, so you're bringing something in that wasn't there before. Love is a good example because if it pre-existed in you, you might have it switched off at present, so it's not far fetched that you could perhaps invoke it on a convenient day (Friday-Sunday would be fantastic).

Anyhow, as you showed, Love is emblematic of inspiration, and going on from that, music can be inspired and therefore music that didn't exist before within you can be inspired, so therefore l'd say, it's possible for drugs or even old photos of trains to inspire music (as you said yourself: whatever floats your boat), the predicate being "music that didn't exist within you can be inspired"

[HepCat]

One thing to be wary of is your brain on psychedelics fucking with electrical signals. I took mushies and went to make music, and my midi keyboard didn't work. It never worked again. I had to buy a new one. Also, iTunes was not responding to any key presses, and it's literally never done it before. There's heaps of stories of people taking shrooms/acid/psychs and it completely screwing with electronics.

Nobody would believe that if they hadn't actually experienced something similar, and even then, few would believe it.

My story: on my first shroom trip - l went for a smoke on my back porch, and an earwig (a bitey insect we have over here in the UK) landed on my baseball cap. It must have fallen off the roof of the back porch. It just went for me. This had never happened before nor since. Perhaps insects detect electromagnetic fields. That gels with what you're saying. Still, l can barely believe it myself. We try to dismiss the abnormal as outlier data.

[jonheal]

Boy, we got a lot dope fiends on this forum!

[selig]

My 2 cents…
No creative technique or substance can create something that isn't there ...

What about inspiration?

Inspiration is like feelings IMO - you can't "create" them but you can evoke them.

One doesn't create "love" for example, but an evocative poem or song can inspire feelings of love.

Yep, so you're bringing something in that wasn't there before. Love is a good example because if it pre-existed in you, you might have it switched off at present, so it's not far fetched that you could perhaps invoke it on a convenient day (Friday-Sunday would be fantastic).

Anyhow, as you showed, Love is emblematic of inspiration, and going on from that, music can be inspired and therefore music that didn't exist before within you can be inspired, so therefore l'd say, it's possible for drugs or even old photos of trains to inspire music (as you said yourself: whatever floats your boat), the predicate being "music that didn't exist within you can be inspired"

Totally agree - I only took issue with the idea the "inspiration" actually creates the results. Your muse can be a person, a drug, a place - whatever. But your muse does not create art, the artist creates art - IMO, of course!


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[selig]

Boy, we got a lot dope fiends on this forum!

Oh no, point them out please so I can avoid them!!!


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[Reminiscence]

I'm out...

[dvdrtldg]

Weed's great and I find it enhances the fun aspect of making music, but for me it sends the get-shit-done aspect right out the window. If I'm stoned, I'll happily disappear down a 3-hour rabbit hole making a synth patch or fucking around with a compressor - and of course you can learn a lot from working like that - but no way will I be able to actually finish a project. I often get restless and bored with my projects before they're finished, and it takes a certain amount of discipline to push through that barrier and get the job done. Which means being straight and goal-oriented rather than high and free-associating all over the place

Any other drug, forget it. Never liked coke, hardly drink at all, and psychedelics don't go well with sitting in a chair at a computer

[Gorgon]

Weed's great and I find it enhances the fun aspect of making music, but for me it sends the get-shit-done aspect right out the window.

Funny, for me it's the complete opposite.

[selig]

Weed's great and I find it enhances the fun aspect of making music, but for me it sends the get-shit-done aspect right out the window.

Funny, for me it's the complete opposite.

I've met so many folks at high levels of productivity (mostly in the music industry, naturally) that are long-time smokers and are very successful - you'd never know it, of course because that's not what "weed users" look like, right?

I've also met folks who sit at home and smoke all day doing nothing much at all.

My guess is each of these personally types would be doing pretty much the same with/without weed, and I've seen evidence to support that (when they quit smoking, their lifestyle doesn't change).

Definitely a "to each their own" thing IMO, and certainly no judgement either. If ANYTHING causes problems in your life, it's hard to argue it's a "good thing" for you…but that's up to the individual to decide, again IMO.

[8cros]

In Russia, this prohibition. I think it is right. You need to be part of the subculture. Not everyone wants to take responsibility for the social problem of drug addiction. To be honest. That is generally the drugs are very bad for the society as a whole. IMHO
When you smoke, you are responsible for others. You must understand this.

Nobody wants to take responsibility. But we want to have a smoke and relax.