What is going on in the USA and stuff

[selig]

One good thing about the protests and riots and stuff is that at least we now know the Covid stuff was a big fake hoax. Because if it was real... (so deadly, so dangerous, so contagious!) then why would every democrat city mayor/gov support their own people going out and catching/spreading it en masse?

They say they're organizing for 1 million on streets in DC this weekend. In the midst of a Pandemic lockdown?

So either a.) it was a fake/hyped disease and we all got quarantined and lost jobs, tanked economy, etc all for nothing...
or b.) someone WANTS that disease to spread way more for it's 2nd phase. (which is RIGHT NOW)

Which one is it ReasonTalk? Either answer creates many more questions.

For the record I 100% believe that Black Lives Matter! ...so then why do they want them to risk all those mattering lives, and catch Covid-19 while protesting in the streets ? It doesn't make much sense to a simple man like me. Help me understand.

My 2 cents: There are far more than two possibilities here IMO.
Could be it's nothing to do with political party at all (the virus doesn't care what party you belong to), and it's possible the current circumstance s are simply motivating folks to protest even in the face of a highly contagious virus (it's not being touted as "so deadly", since only a small percentage die from it - the problem is how highly contagious it is which has never been questioned to my knowledge).

I don't see what a persons political party has to do with the virus, and there appear to be as many white folks out protesting (not to mention the protests across the globe). I also don't see anyone urging folks to go out and protest, this is as much a grass roots event as I've ever seen. I would suggest that if anyone wants the virus to spread it's more likely those aggressively promoting "opening up" states who's hospitalization and death rate are on the increase - but even then, I would not ascribe to a theory that someone actually wants this thing to spread and kill more people - do you?

[Kalm]

But that’s my point. You CAN blame the family, like you CAN blame the movement. But your efforts doesn’t constitute the behavior of said child or people. Everyone even that must speak and take responsibility for themselves.

I don't think we're disagreeing on the situation at all, just on the way to describe it and which comparisons are more apt.

The difference is the family raised the child, and is responsible for the child from birth through the present. The looters are more like a parasite who at the last minute attaches themselves to the group. The protesters are not responsible for the looters because they did not raise them from their ranks, nor did they have any way of knowing they would appear (and blend in), and in most cases there is little if any central organization that would have been able to either weed out or groom the looters over the years to bring them into the fold. Two totally different things IMO, besides the obvious difference that the child may not yet be a fully developed human and the looters are full grown adults and thus responsible for their own actions.

We’re definitely arguing for the same thing in different ways lol we can tackle this all day probably, buts I’ll say that defeats the greater purpose of this thread

[Kalm]

One good thing about the protests and riots and stuff is that at least we now know the Covid stuff was a big fake hoax. Because if it was real... (so deadly, so dangerous, so contagious!) then why would every democrat city mayor/gov support their own people going out and catching/spreading it en masse?

They say they're organizing for 1 million on streets in DC this weekend. In the midst of a Pandemic lockdown?

So either a.) it was a fake/hyped disease and we all got quarantined and lost jobs, tanked economy, etc all for nothing...
or b.) someone WANTS that disease to spread way more for it's 2nd phase. (which is RIGHT NOW)

Which one is it ReasonTalk? Either answer creates many more questions.

For the record I 100% believe that Black Lives Matter! ...so then why do they want them to risk all those mattering lives, and catch Covid-19 while protesting in the streets ? It doesn't make much sense to a simple man like me. Help me understand.

The only problem I find with your statement is that people actually died under the pandemic and by time the BLM came back to fruition, certain areas (like where I am in Texas) have already went back to 80% work and personal life. So the marching in the streets is no different than what’s already been accepted as a reality.

I will concur to say that the Democratic Party (party I belong too by name mostly) switches their focus by whatever is happening in the moment. Democrats are a strong ethos group so if it takes suffering a COVID disaster to save lives, the logic would be to fight police anyways cause black people are being killed either way most likely.

Also at this point, there are mixed feeling about the severity of the disease. I myself don’t see much correlation between our practices and the spread of the disease. More effective measures would mean to pursue stay at home orders with no attempt to re open businesses since you’re dealing with a microbiological life form. But then the republican protests to open the country and multiple people decide to be racist and yah kinda see what happens here.

[-008']

I will concur to say that the Democratic Party (party I belong too by name mostly) switches their focus by whatever is happening in the moment. Democrats are a strong ethos group so if it takes suffering a COVID disaster to save lives, the logic would be to fight police anyways cause black people are being killed either way most likely.

I would agree there, and say that the other "side" is just as guilty of that. what is the phrase? "never let a crisis go to waste"
And oh man do they NEVER waste a crisis. (also thats my answer selig to what the virus would have to do with politics)

I also think the illusion of "sides" is very damaging. The average people (us) have WAY more in common with each other (no matter our affiliations!) than any Politician does with his base. These far right and far left things are fringe stuff. What i mean is there are like (arbitrary #s for my case) say 80% good people, and then 10% bad lefties and 10% bad righties... the media only amplifies the fringe 20%. It's almost funny if it wasn't so terrible.

Left, Right, Black, White. In my heart I think all that really matters is compassion for our fellow people.

As an exercise for my own stupid brain to make sense of these things, I like to just ask questions to get somewhere.

For example: If the USA is so racist ...how did 60% majority white country have a black president for 8 years?
Did he cheat? or are those whites much less racist than what is claimed ?

Does 1 black criminal make all black people criminals? Hell no!
Does 1 white racist make all white people racist? Also no!
Does 1 bad cop make all cops bad? I don't think so.
If all politicians are liars, can there be 1 honest one? .... not sure about that one lol

[MrFigg]

Events like this help to make a lot of people feel good about themselves. They can post pictures on Facebook with #blacklives etc and then see the “likes” roll in from all their friends who have done the same. Lovely.

Cynical huh?!

Incidentally the whole Self congratulatory black background hashtag thing is apparently fucking it up for the people who really need to get the info out to the public.
https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.washing ... utType=amp

[Kalm]

I will concur to say that the Democratic Party (party I belong too by name mostly) switches their focus by whatever is happening in the moment. Democrats are a strong ethos group so if it takes suffering a COVID disaster to save lives, the logic would be to fight police anyways cause black people are being killed either way most likely.

I would agree there, and say that the other "side" is just as guilty of that. what is the phrase? "never let a crisis go to waste"
And oh man do they NEVER waste a crisis. (also thats my answer selig to what the virus would have to do with politics)

I also think the illusion of "sides" is very damaging. The average people (us) have WAY more in common with each other (no matter our affiliations!) than any Politician does with his base. These far right and far left things are fringe stuff. What i mean is there are like (arbitrary #s for my case) say 80% good people, and then 10% bad lefties and 10% bad righties... the media only amplifies the fringe 20%. It's almost funny if it wasn't so terrible.

Left, Right, Black, White. In my heart I think all that really matters is compassion for our fellow people.

As an exercise for my own stupid brain to make sense of these things, I like to just ask questions to get somewhere.

For example: If the USA is so racist ...how did 60% majority white country have a black president for 8 years?
Did he cheat? or are those whites much less racist than what is claimed ?

Does 1 black criminal make all black people criminals? Hell no!
Does 1 white racist make all white people racist? Also no!
Does 1 bad cop make all cops bad? I don't think so.
If all politicians are liars, can there be 1 honest one? .... not sure about that one lol

And what I find is that musically interested and inclined people usually have a different understanding about what’s happening and are like you that ask questions. I interned at a persons studio in Franklin , TN (never going back). He seemed like a cool guy but two things put me off. The first thing he showed me was his rifle in a closet when I walked in, then he was a huge FOX news only and Hannity supporter. We could even have an internship day literally because he was distressed on election results day that “Hillary cannot win!!” Al the while trying to convince me how my party is cruel and evil. In the same breath he would take me out to eat and be like we can both do better in government. There’s wayyyyy more to this story but you get the picture.

Politics is literally perpetuating an idea of necessity and the American minds, hearts, and souls are very biased based on upbringing and belief. But there’s so much to Each story that many people are seemingly not putting together. Like how the GOP are going nuts over the 2.5 million job uprise right now.... even though it’s a temporary re-establishment of said jobs due to PPP most likely.

[EdGrip]

Weird, innit? You assume that because music is art, and because the arts are snowflake liberal pursuits of the metropolitan intelligentsia and tools of political protest that are first to be crushed under the boot of authoritarianism, that you wouldn't get racist authoritarian views on a music production forum. And yet, here we are.

If Trump doesn't get voted out of office in November, I worry that America is in very big trouble. Here in the UK, the same worrying trends are afoot, just not so overt or advanced. It's dark times.

[guitfnky]

Weird, innit? You assume that because music is art, and because the arts are snowflake liberal pursuits of the metropolitan intelligentsia and tools of political protest that are first to be crushed under the boot of authoritarianism, that you wouldn't get racist authoritarian views on a music production forum. And yet, here we are.

If Trump doesn't get voted out of office in November, I worry that America is in very big trouble. Here in the UK, the same worrying trends are afoot, just not so overt or advanced. It's dark times.

America is already in very big trouble--mainly because the type of folks you're talking about here gravitate toward people like Trump, and because THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM.

Trump's rise really is a symptom of the deeper problems in America. he's just found a really efficient way to exploit them.

but yes, if he wins again in November, things will only get much worse. I'm not really prone to hyperbole, but I honestly believe if he isn't voted out, we will be past the window to save America--we'll have effectively voted away our soul. it's one thing to vote for him in 2016 when there's at least an ability to somewhat plausibly say "he won't be that bad"--it's completely different when we've seen everything he's been willing to do to destroy any potential for accountability, these last 3-1/2 years.

worse still, with all the other major PLANET-WIDE issues that need addressing, if no other country/countries step in and take a major leadership role, the place we humans have carved out for ourselves on the planet will be in grave danger too.

[guitfnky]

and the idea that Covid must be a hoax just because people are protesting racism is batshit.

more than 100,000 people have died in this country because of it. GTFO with that garbage.

the only question is what is more urgent on people's minds--and that's something only they can answer. I'd be out in the streets with them if I wasn't worried about Covid. they've made a different calculation, and racism is an important enough issue that I can't fault them for it. I'd feel the same if they were out there protesting gun violence. aunt Becky, out protesting because she can't get a fucking haircut, however...

[Kalm]

Weird, innit? You assume that because music is art, and because the arts are snowflake liberal pursuits of the metropolitan intelligentsia and tools of political protest that are first to be crushed under the boot of authoritarianism, that you wouldn't get racist authoritarian views on a music production forum. And yet, here we are.

If Trump doesn't get voted out of office in November, I worry that America is in very big trouble. Here in the UK, the same worrying trends are afoot, just not so overt or advanced. It's dark times.

Was this statement directed towards me or the person above?

[-008']

Trump's rise really is a symptom of the deeper problems in America.

In that case, was Obama's rise a symptom of deep racial harmony in America?

and the idea that Covid must be a hoax just because people are protesting racism is batshit.

What about the idea in reverse? What if people are protesting becasue Covid was a hoax?

Even more batshit, right? Anyway If covid is not a hoax, then dem leaders and media are risking innocent lives to a very dangerous disease.
In the middle of a dangerous and murderous pandemic - there is no time for a protest, sorry.
(should we have protested G W Bush's hurricane response in the middle of another hurricane?)

more than 100,000 people have died in this country because of it. GTFO with that garbage.

Ahh numbers - Look at those numbers. Why does the origin country have 80k current cases, and yet the FIRST country to lock their doors and ban china now has 1.5M+ cases? It would seem like we are in the middle of a sort of biological attack then. yes? (intentional or accident/chance doesn't matter)
And if so, why would anyone in their right mind let anyone on the streets. for protests, haircuts or otherwise?

Just asking questions here. Can quote me to my face next time tho. I like to discuss

For the record Ive been Lysol wiping my groceries since end of January. I don't believe in taking chances .lol

[Auryn]

In that case, was Obama's rise a symptom of deep racial harmony in America?

I think it's a mistake to assume that this is paradoxical. I think both those forces (impetus towards racial animus and impetus towards racial harmony) can exist in parallel in a society, especially one as big as the USA.

What about the idea in reverse? What if people are protesting becasue Covid was a hoax?

Even more batshit, right? Anyway If covid is not a hoax, then dem leaders and media are risking innocent lives to a very dangerous disease.
In the middle of a dangerous and murderous pandemic - there is no time for a protest, sorry.
(should we have protested G W Bush's hurricane response in the middle of another hurricane?)

I think that most leaders will feel (correctly IMHO) that bearing down on a crowd of protesters against police brutality with draconian police suppression is asking for trouble. They have to weigh these options and have chosen to let people express their anger instead of seeking confrontation.

Ahh numbers - Look at those numbers. Why does the origin country have 80k current cases, and yet the FIRST country to lock their doors and ban china now has 1.5M+ cases? It would seem like we are in the middle of a sort of biological attack then. yes? (intentional or accident/chance doesn't matter)
And if so, why would anyone in their right mind let anyone on the streets. for protests, haircuts or otherwise?

Just asking questions here. Can quote me to my face next time tho. I like to discuss

For the record Ive been Lysol wiping my groceries since end of January. I don't believe in taking chances .lol

Hmmm, possibly because the numbers china is publishing are quite likely to be propaganda and not trustworthy? I think there is every reason to be suspicious of China, but right now might not be the smartest time to start flinging around accusations internationally. China is an extremely powerful nation armed with nuclear weapons under the control of a regime that has not demonstrated much of a moral compass.

[Reasonable man]

I could talk about so called 'police' officers for hours..i've met so many bad apples. But thats distracting from what the thread title is about...so in short...my opinion on that matter alone.

Police officers 'contract' with society is to 'uphold the law' which is also cemented in the form of a monthly wage. What a load of crap that is ..like a priest promising never to wank. I've seen police officers lie on the stands ,fabricate truths and pick on lonesome singualr individulas when in groups of two or more.For alot..... 'upholding the law' is just some nonsense they spew at a ceromony to get in the door.

In general (the incident with the police officer aside) ..the law is lop-sided . A police officer dosn't have to prove someone's guilt to charge or fine them (or in this case murder them!) ....the onus is on the idividual to prove their own innocence.This is the case in most countries. So its the individual's word againt one or more police officer's word ...which lets be honest ..under those terms can say or do whatever they want.. as even a judge would need a reason to rule against them. From the evidence of the last 60 or more years .... police do not warrant this trust.

This latest incident has been caught on camera.. and yes we all strongly (and i would argue rightly) believe that this caveman would have gotten away with this had the camera phone evidence not been on hand. Alot of recent incidents have been brought to light via camera phone that would almost certainly have gone the other way without it.... and alot of people would have been non the wiser .....or powerless.... knowing the truth but not being able to 'prove' it, which goes back to my original point.

I'm not going to talk about the race issue as i dont feel qualified. Someone has to try 'uphold the law' but until police are re-educated as to what their role is as opposed to their job description being viewed simply as a symbol of power and misguided self-rightousness (with a pension) then your always going to attract more self entilted prcks than decent human beings. Racisim aside, how many totally avoidable incidents have taken place in this world because a cop is simply having a' bad day' and someone is going to pay for it....imagine if nurses or dotors had that attitude?

[orthodox]

Hmmm, possibly because the numbers china is publishing are quite likely to be propaganda and not trustworthy? I think there is every reason to be suspicious of China, but right now might not be the smartest time to start flinging around accusations internationally. China is an extremely powerful nation armed with nuclear weapons under the control of a regime that has not demonstrated much of a moral compass.

I got a couple of Chinese friends and I feel obliged to intervene. It's easy to make up stories on the go when you have a convenient narrative like authoritarian regime, communist propaganda and so on. Moral compass, LMAO? I guess you must know a country with a better one, right?

[Auryn]

I could talk about so called 'police' officers for hours..i've met so many bad apples. But thats distracting from what the thread title is about...so in short...my opinion on that matter alone.

Police officers 'contract' with society is to 'uphold the law' which is also cemented in the form of a monthly wage. What a load of crap that is ..like a priest promising never to wank. I've seen police officers lie on the stands ,fabricate truths and pick on lonesome singualr individulas when in groups of two or more.For alot..... 'upholding the law' is just some nonsense they spew at a ceromony to get in the door.

In general (the incident with the police officer aside) ..the law is lop-sided . A police officer dosn't have to prove someone's guilt to charge or fine them (or in this case murder them!) ....the onus is on the idividual to prove their own innocence.This is the case in most countries. So its the individual's word againt one or more police officer's word ...which lets be honest ..under those terms can say or do whatever they want.. as even a judge would need a reason to rule against them. From the evidence of the last 60 or more years .... police do not warrant this trust.

This latest incident has been caught on camera.. and yes we all strongly (and i would argue rightly) believe that this caveman would have gotten away with this had the camera phone evidence not been on hand. Alot of recent incidents have been brought to light via camera phone that would almost certainly have gone the other way without it.... and alot of people would have been non the wiser .....or powerless.... knowing the truth but not being able to 'prove' it, which goes back to my original point.

I'm not going to talk about the race issue as i dont feel qualified. Someone has to try 'uphold the law' but until police are re-educated as to what their role is as opposed to their job description being viewed simply as a symbol of power and misguided self-rightousness (with a pension) then your always going to attract more self entilted prcks than decent human beings. Racisim aside, how many totally avoidable incidents have taken place in this world because a cop is simply having a' bad day' and someone is going to pay for it....imagine if nurses or dotors had that attitude?

So yeah, police officers... I mean when I read this my first question would be: "do you have any alternatives"? If you were to abolish the police we would soon regress towards a might=right type society where the strong and cruel prey on the weak and defenseless.

I think police officers have an INSANELY difficult job. Let's be real here, I work in a home for psychiatric patients and I earn about 40-45k a year for a 4 day workweek. Sometimes I have to deal with danger and violence but for example in my 10 year career I've been threatened with a knife ONCE by some guy high as a motherfucker on meth. Psychiatric patients have more of a proclivity for starting fires in my experience. Anyway, most of the time my job is pretty mellow. I talk to people, try to calm their (sometimes pretty delusional) worries, give out some medication, write some reports, that's it.
A police officer in my country earns roughly the same as me, yet her/his job is SO much more dangerous and difficult. Police officers have to deal with aggressive and fucked up people on the daily, and get in to dangerous, stressful situations that are often ambiguous and difficult to read. Then there's all the paperwork pressure and the (not insignificant) social pressure that comes when everybody seems to want to interpret your interventions as totalitarian fascism. That is not to excuse the bad behaviour you are citing above (like lying to cover their ass) but I think that police officers are just hugely underpaid for the amount of responsibility they carry, and because of that lack of remuneration (and status) the people that become police officers now are not always the competent and conscientious individuals you would hope for. People with thrill-seeking or power-tripping personalities are not the ones you want in a uniform, but it's often what you end up with.

I think that the current anti-police sentiment is pretty dangerous because it also engenders a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby the better angels of their personalities are silenced by the hate and disrespect. Who cares if they make some money on the side or fuck with evidence? If everybody assumes that they are fascist pigs anyway, then they have nothing to lose.

[Auryn]

I got a couple of Chinese friends and I feel obliged to intervene. It's easy to make up stories on the go when you have a convenient narrative like authoritarian regime, communist propaganda and so on. Moral compass, LMAO? I guess you must know a country with a better one, right?

I think the moral standing of the Chinese government would be best left discussed in a separate thread. Obviously most countries have some period in their past where their behaviour has been less than praiseworthy, my own is no exception. My point was mostly about the untrustworthiness of the numbers coming out of there right now.

[fullforce]

One of the things the black community is asking people of the white community is to educate yourself, build up your understanding. Nobody is blaming the living white population for what happened during the slave trading years. And another request is to talk about to your fellow white friends, bring awareness, take a stand against racism. We all can start with that. This video is pretty good.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA-nzSogGy ... kwll3ndiy2

Yeah because white people have absolutely no clue about slavery. Never even heard of it.

[guitfnky]

Trump's rise really is a symptom of the deeper problems in America.

1: In that case, was Obama's rise a symptom of deep racial harmony in America?

and the idea that Covid must be a hoax just because people are protesting racism is batshit.

2a: What about the idea in reverse? What if people are protesting becasue Covid was a hoax?

2b: Even more batshit, right? Anyway If covid is not a hoax, then dem leaders and media are risking innocent lives to a very dangerous disease.
In the middle of a dangerous and murderous pandemic - there is no time for a protest, sorry.
(should we have protested G W Bush's hurricane response in the middle of another hurricane?)

more than 100,000 people have died in this country because of it. GTFO with that garbage.

3: Ahh numbers - Look at those numbers. Why does the origin country have 80k current cases, and yet the FIRST country to lock their doors and ban china now has 1.5M+ cases? It would seem like we are in the middle of a sort of biological attack then. yes? (intentional or accident/chance doesn't matter)
And if so, why would anyone in their right mind let anyone on the streets. for protests, haircuts or otherwise?

4: Just asking questions here. Can quote me to my face next time tho. I like to discuss

5: For the record Ive been Lysol wiping my groceries since end of January. I don't believe in taking chances .lol

1 - no, but more importantly, what's your point? that's a rhetorical question--no need to answer--I already know any response will be incoherent*.

2a - Jesus Christ, now I finally understand why the phrase "I can't even" is a thing--thanks, I guess?

2b - "dem leaders" didn't trigger the protests. duh.

3 - biological attack? someone's found their tinfoil hat...

4 - good for you?

5 - then you are a hypocrite.

*this same point applies to all the others as well...

[orthodox]

I got a couple of Chinese friends and I feel obliged to intervene. It's easy to make up stories on the go when you have a convenient narrative like authoritarian regime, communist propaganda and so on. Moral compass, LMAO? I guess you must know a country with a better one, right?

I think the moral standing of the Chinese government would be best left discussed in a separate thread. Obviously most countries have some period in their past where their behaviour has been less than praiseworthy, my own is no exception. My point was mostly about the untrustworthiness of the numbers coming out of there right now.

Well, I consider untrustworthy the smearing campaign against China, because that has a clear motive, in contrast to the Chinese govt, which could not care less if the numbers were 2-3 times higher. And of course, I'm against simplistic understanding of Chinese music, like every Chinese tune is a variation of their anthem.

[Auryn]

Well, I consider untrustworthy the smearing campaign against China, because that has a clear motive, in contrast to the Chinese govt, which could not care less if the numbers were 2-3 times higher.

This made me laugh because if you read this slightly differently than the way you meant it, it is not exactly an endorsement of the Chinese government

Other than that I don't believe that the numbers coming out of other countries are particularly trustworthy, the political stakes are far to high for them not to be tampered with.

[MarkTarlton]

anyone who saw pictures/video knows that what happened to george floyd was wrong. police who do that kind of crap deserve to be held accountable, and thanks to the protesters he is now charged with 2nd degree murder, and the other officers standing around doing nothing are being charged too...this is HUGE. systemic racism is real! accountability is something that officers in the past haven't worried about, and now we are witnessing change, the whole world is watching, and if you don't have any feelings of empathy, you are part of the problem. I am sort of shocked by some of the responses in this thread. stick to the point and leave your conspiracy theories out of the discussion and stay on point, I will concentrate on the good humans that want progress. one thing for certain, when you have the current secretary of defense and the last one who was fired, saying that the POTUS has done nothing to unite us are right on target, he is the most divisive president our country has ever had, and that is saying something considering our history!!

[orthodox]

... and if you don't have any feelings of empathy, you are part of the problem.

This is HUGE indeed. Aren't you guys going too far? Can I stand aside, please?

[guitfnky]

... and if you don't have any feelings of empathy, you are part of the problem.

This is HUGE indeed. Aren't you guys going too far? Can I stand aside, please?

yes, there are many other threads here for which your input would be much better suited.

[orthodox]

This is HUGE indeed. Aren't you guys going too far? Can I stand aside, please?

yes, there are many other threads here for which your input would be much better suited.

I could, but when you finish with this one, you'll get me there with my improper attitude.

[guitfnky]

yes, there are many other threads here for which your input would be much better suited.

I could, but when you finish with this one, you'll get me there with my improper attitude.

better an improper attitude in a music discussion thread than in here. being dismissive of people’s opinions on plugins is a lot different than being dismissive of people’s opinions on the existence of racism.