What is GOOD sound?

[Marco Raaphorst]

Sound is highly subjective. What sounds good to someone sounds bad to someone else. Here's my reference list:

[normen]

I think you gave the answer to your question right in your post ^^

I have to say though, being a live mixer and having many bands on stage that play in many different venues with different sound systems and different mixers.. I do sometimes hear "wow the sound here is so much better than elsewhere" - and believe me I only say that for the sake of this argument and not to shine in some way..

So I ask myself "what could be different?" Well first of all I have a really nice PA system with lots of headroom especially in the bass section. I also have decent microphones where I know they don't pick up "totally bent" sound from any direction. I rarely go all fickly with EQing, being more of a guy saying "if I have to EQ like mad something else is off - the PA, the mic or the source".

Also I put more of an eye on the rhythmic and bass parts of the band. Keyboards and such are more of an "added color" thing for me when mixing (obviously when theres a whole band, not if its a singer on a piano). I cut the lows of synths and keyboards almost invariably because they often mess up the rhythmic information of that region and cover up other things. With a strong bass it will pull slightly off-key notes from singers, guitarists etc. to the proper root note.

And even if some people say "they don't like a lot of bass" - there seems to be some hardwired thing in the back of the brain that makes people get into the music more when theres proper bass. And the rhythmic part of the music grabs people more the clearer it is as well.

Anyway few of that is really relevant when mixing for a CD or the radio as the final presentation can be on headphones, a car radio or an audiophile listening setup.. You're not mixing for people in the same room as you. And it would be crazy to handle synths and piano as "added color" in that case. Add to that I'm personally more of a "horizontal" listener in terms of music, the "vertical" part isn't _that_ important to me.

[Aggie]

I've never really since fallen for a genre since my teenage years. I think you're right that all music is subjective and there is no common ground. I couldn't pick out an artist and, hand on heart, say "I like all their stuff". On a more personal level there are even some tracks I've laid down that I have thought, some time later, "what was I thinking?!". I like to sing but I'm rubbish at it - unless I'm in the bath where the acoustics always seem to be just right(!)

In the end, our sense tell us what is right and, through years of experience, you tend to get a feel for what is right, despite all the good advice and intentions of others to steer us through a learning curve. I have found that playing my own tracks through many different mediums helps me to hone them (...smartphone tinny speakers, earbuds, headphones, expensive headphones, rubbish speakers, good speakers, etc...) and if I can find a happy mid-ground, then I'm happy too!

[deepndark]

It is subjective, no doupt.
The sound can add a lot to your mixes, but arrangement part is at least as important. And how it all works together.
Anyway, the more complex your sound is, the more it catches your ears and I'd dare to say that organic sounds are safer for certain genres than those "wow" sounds.
We all know how the modern sound sounds in most mainstream songs. I don't sound the same and there's no intended sound I'm after. It's more like getting there automatically.
I may sound good in most cases, but like I said, the quality isn't only about sound,there's more to it like arrangement, a right tempo, your vocal/guitar recordings etc.

[selig]

Good sound is the opposite of bad sound?

For me, good sound is any time I get lost in the music and forget the sound!

But to be clear, this has happened while listening in the best rooms in the world, and also when listening to scratchy 78s on an old Victrola. So for me good sound isn't "fixed" and definable. Like just about everything else, it's all contextual IMO.

[deepndark]

For me, good sound is any time I get lost in the music and forget the sound!

Yeah, sounds like a good benchmark when mixing.

[4filegate]

Bandwidth; unforeseen events &. interactions in context

[Exowildebeest]

Subjective, yes, but there certainly are broad trends and preferences. There's a reason most of us try to learn about good mixing - people tend to prefer a specific sort of mix, one that conforms to certain expectations. Well-balanced is a concept that comes to mind, however broadly you can interpret that, it's obvious we all learn about EQ and volume and compression because we're striving for a certain balance between sounds in a mix. The exact balance is up to the story you want to tell, but it needs to be clear to the listener that there is some form of balance. Otherwise it's likely to be regarded as bad sounding music, or at best experimental and progressive.

[gak]

Whatever someone else has that you want......or at least........THINK you want.

[Marco Raaphorst]

I love to describe what sounds good to me. I can do this for guitar sounds as well. There are many details I can describe what I like and what I don't like about it.

In general I want a full sound, with the right amount of low end, not to make it sound light. And not overly bright, just enough to make a voice sound clear so you can follow the text. I don't like exaggerated mixes with too much highend on all instruments, I really love a much more warm sound. I also love blending old with new, lofi with hifi. Make some tracks sound totally different than other ones. I rarely use full range on every track/channel.

And in general I am not a big fan of reverb. I love a very dry sound, also on vocals. I will use some reverb though and like it on guitars as well sometimes, but almost never the longer reverbs. Dry and direct, a jazz type of sound, is what I prefer.

[raymondh]

For me, good sound is any time I get lost in the music and forget the sound!

This is what I say when a friend asks for advice on buying a new set of speakers or HiFi component.

Forget the brand, specifications and technical information - you know you found the right system when you put on your (familiar) CD and you just want to melt into the listening chair and be at one with the music.

Of course technical quality counts too - I remember first time I heard Pink Floyd's "Hey You" (first track on disk 2 of The Wall) on a great pair of speakers - it was the first time I'd noticed Roger Waters' descending slides on the intro bass notes. Very exciting!

I suppose from that perspective, good sound is relative - because once you've been exposed to transparency, tight timing and (apparent) accuracy in a performance (and you've melted into your chair), it's really hard to go back to a lesser system where everything all of a sudden sounds cloudy/muddy... and no longer has GOOD sound.

[chimp_spanner]

I think one aspect of sound that gets overlooked is the actual arrangement. I'm trying to get into this more myself; making the mix sound good by way of leaving room for things musically. When I think about it the songs that appeal to me most sonically are the ones that are also really well arranged.

[normen]

I think one aspect of sound that gets overlooked is the actual arrangement. I'm trying to get into this more myself; making the mix sound good by way of leaving room for things musically. When I think about it the songs that appeal to me most sonically are the ones that are also really well arranged.

+1000

[selig]

I think one aspect of sound that gets overlooked is the actual arrangement. I'm trying to get into this more myself; making the mix sound good by way of leaving room for things musically. When I think about it the songs that appeal to me most sonically are the ones that are also really well arranged.

I totally agree that a great mix starts with a great performance of a great arrangement of a great song.

But good "sound" is different - it's a great RECORDING of the above. It's like saying good sound overlooks the actual song writing, which is IMO totally unrelated.

I see you later talk about "making the mix sound good" with the arrangement, ant later about the "songs that appeal" to you most - which of course I would agree.

But if you want to talk about ""what is good sound", then I'm not sure there's a direct relationship…

[normen]

I totally agree that a great mix starts with a great performance of a great arrangement of a great song.

But good "sound" is different - it's a great RECORDING of the above. It's like saying good sound overlooks the actual song writing, which is IMO totally unrelated.

I see you later talk about "making the mix sound good" with the arrangement, ant later about the "songs that appeal" to you most - which of course I would agree.

But if you want to talk about ""what is good sound", then I'm not sure there's a direct relationship…

Well if you say "I like the sound of that band" you don't actually mean the PA do you?

[selig]

I totally agree that a great mix starts with a great performance of a great arrangement of a great song.

But good "sound" is different - it's a great RECORDING of the above. It's like saying good sound overlooks the actual song writing, which is IMO totally unrelated.

I see you later talk about "making the mix sound good" with the arrangement, ant later about the "songs that appeal" to you most - which of course I would agree.

But if you want to talk about ""what is good sound", then I'm not sure there's a direct relationship…

Well if you say "I like the sound of that band" you don't actually mean the PA do you?

If I say "I like the sound of your comment" I don't actually mean your voice, do I?

Your first comment to the thread mentioned folks liking the "sound" where you work. Then you go on to mention the really nice PA.
Are we not talking about sound, or are we talking about music?
Apologies if it's not "sound" we're talking about, as I made the assumption that is was.

[normen]

If I say "I like the sound of your comment" I don't actually mean your voice, do I?

Your first comment to the thread mentioned folks liking the "sound" where you work. Then you go on to mention the really nice PA.
Are we not talking about sound, or are we talking about music?
Apologies if it's not "sound" we're talking about, as I made the assumption that is was.

Well yeah but I also mentioned putting a focus on the rhythmic parts.. I am just saying this (and agreeing to the arrangement part) because too many people ask "why does my music not sound as good as X" while the problem is mainly arrangement things.

So yeah, its a mixed up topic and "good sound" can definitely just mean "high fidelity recording and reproduction" but in the context of music the "sound" you experience is so much more - hence why one might love to listen to some song even if its on some "scratchy 78s on an old Victrola" as you said yourself.

[selig]

I only mention the distinction because the topic of mixing/arranging has been discussed many times, but the subject of "good sound" has not. IMO "good sound" has to do with the quality of the gear used, and the skill of (and the choices many by) the operator.
Though you can hardly draw perfect lines separating all the factors, an engineer is more responsible for the sound while the producer/musicians/composer/arranger is responsible for the rest (edit-musician's gear and their ability to get good sounds from it is also a big factor).
They are all obviously connected in many ways, but I can also say I've heard great 'sounding' records that had no other redeeming qualities for me, a point which became more obvious to me when I heard "terrible" sounding records that had a huge emotional impact on me (like the 78s, or some cassette tapes).

Not my thread, though, so I'll let Marco guide it (apologies in advance for any derailment on my part!).


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[Ostermilk]

I guess there's many concepts of what good sound is.

For example when I was young I'd have said the chimes coming from an approaching ice-cream van was a good sound whereas to my Mother it probably meant the impending horror of me and my 4 other siblings applying pressure bound to wreck her shopping budget, so for her it likely didn't represent a 'good' sound.

There's also a well touted point that 'good sound' means an accurate and uncoloured representation of a real world sound, as in high fidelity.

It can also mean sounds well used to bring added interest to the sound itself, as in music production, or to bring some added drama or emphasis to a visual event as in a soundtrack.

So good sound can commonly mean enjoyable or pleasing to the listener, simply well reproduced, or perhaps a production of involving audible elements that can evoke a reaction from its audience. Mixtures of these things, and probably many other definitions too, make this far from a simple question to answer with any real meaning.

[selig]

I guess there's many concepts of what good sound is.

For example when I was young I'd have said the chimes coming from an approaching ice-cream van was a good sound whereas to my Mother it probably meant the impending horror of me and my 4 other siblings applying pressure bound to wreck her shopping budget, so for her it likely didn't represent a 'good' sound.

There's also a well touted point that 'good sound' means an accurate and uncoloured representation of a real world sound, as in high fidelity.

It can also mean sounds well used to bring added interest to the sound itself, as in music production, or to bring some added drama or emphasis to a visual event as in a soundtrack.

So good sound can commonly mean enjoyable or pleasing to the listener, simply well reproduced, or perhaps a production of involving audible elements that can evoke a reaction from its audience. Mixtures of these things, and probably many other definitions too, make this far from a simple question to answer with any real meaning.

Sounds good to me.

But "enjoyable" and "good" and "pleasing" all can mean different things to me.

Curious if this is what Marco was intending to discuss here (the definition of the words "good sound")?
(which is IMO different from discussing what we consider to sound good)

[Marco Raaphorst]

I can dig the "enjoyable or pleasing to the listener". In my opinion good sound is all about knowing how to mix things so they have the right amount of low end and high end. A nice balance which is listenable in most situations on both high end speakers as well as on laptop speakers and even on smartphone.

A good sound is an optimal compromise covering the middle ground, what our ears are able to hear and enjoy listening to.

[avasopht]

For me, good sound is any time I get lost in the music and forget the sound!

Don't think it could be said any better.


Thread done!

[selig]

I can dig the "enjoyable or pleasing to the listener". In my opinion good sound is all about knowing how to mix things so they have the right amount of low end and high end. A nice balance which is listenable in most situations on both high end speakers as well as on laptop speakers and even on smartphone.

A good sound is an optimal compromise covering the middle ground, what our ears are able to hear and enjoy listening to.

The best we can do here is share what WE think of as "good sound", as there's no way we can come to any consensus as to what defines "good sound". Or maybe we can? I don't know. But it's extremely unlikely IMO!

Because each of our ears is able to hear different things, and each of us enjoys listening to different things - so "good sound" isn't likely going to be "an optimal compromise covering the middle ground" for everyone.

I personally find more enjoyment from hearing how differently we each enjoy sound (and define "good sound"), rather than trying to find some universal definition of it (not saying that's what's going on here).

[Marco Raaphorst]

I can dig the "enjoyable or pleasing to the listener". In my opinion good sound is all about knowing how to mix things so they have the right amount of low end and high end. A nice balance which is listenable in most situations on both high end speakers as well as on laptop speakers and even on smartphone.

A good sound is an optimal compromise covering the middle ground, what our ears are able to hear and enjoy listening to.

The best we can do here is share what WE think of as "good sound", as there's no way we can come to any consensus as to what defines "good sound". Or maybe we can? I don't know. But it's extremely unlikely IMO!

Because each of our ears is able to hear different things, and each of us enjoys listening to different things - so "good sound" isn't likely going to be "an optimal compromise covering the middle ground" for everyone.

I personally find more enjoyment from hearing how differently we each enjoy sound (and define "good sound"), rather than trying to find some universal definition of it (not saying that's what's going on here).

We can probably not find a consensus indeed. So I guess there are no rules. No theory. No good or wrong. Everything works. Just do it. Don't think you mix sucks, because it will always work. Sound is relative. If you think it sucks, it is in your brain, start loving it.

[FATCheese]

I really dig the sound this track begins with. It's over saturated and most people find it horrible. Me? I like it very much! But back in the day every time I played that tune most people asked me to turn down the volume or stop plating it.

Sadly... They still do nowadays!