What is going on in the USA and stuff

[orthodox]

Since my childhood in the USSR I've been taught that racism is bad, and that somewhere on the other side of the planet there are still problems with that. That our great poet and writer, the creator of our contemporary literary language in XIX century was of Ethiopean ancestry. Not much has changed since and I have yet to meet a single problem with race personally. There are a few people here and there saying some things about different nations and that's it.

[rgdaniel]

Im also overflowing with empathy and i´m also white, but should that stop me for speaking up for ma family ? ( and i mean the whole world as a big family)

but i also get the point that its good to know when you have to stop speaking

I guess I'm trying to avoid "white-splaining" the black experience from the shelter of my white enclave... but thank you for the encouragement to be brave enough to speak out, if I ever do get a clue...

[chimp_spanner]

What does that have to do with anything?

That means that there is no inequality. End of discussion.

Well one more thing.

Are you suggesting there's no socioeconomic disparity between whites and POC because one black guy who had "all the chances in the world" (source?) turned to crime?

2 Days ago he was the symbol of black people being denied everything. Now he's just "one black guy". Hilarious.

So you're discrediting the idea of using one man to prove that there's inequality, by using one man to prove that there isn't? Okay.

I asked for your evidence that he "had it all". You didn't provide any. And even if you could, it wouldn't mean anything because there are real, measurable metrics that put the disparity into numbers. Floyd can buck the trend of financial status and still be a symbol for disproportionate brutality. "Only" twice as many whites are fatally shot by police despite their population being six times larger. Meanwhile;

African Americans make up 12.5% of the population but 21.4% of the population living below the poverty line.

Many residential areas still carry the scars of redlining, unevenly distributing property wealth along previous (legally sanctioned) racial lines. It makes access to home loans more difficult. It reduces the funding available to public schools through property tax revenue.

Downward mobility from the top to the bottom is five times more likely for African Americans. Upwards mobility is half as likely.

Multi-generational inheritance makes up around 10-20% of the wealth gap between white and black Americans. You can't inherit what your family didn't have.

Even now, with COVID, the death rate is anywhere from 2 to 3 or 4 (in a handful of states) x greater than expected. And we have the same problem here in the UK. So something is going on.

Tip of the iceberg. But I don't have time to relay to you things you should already know if you're gonna get involved in this discussion. Doesn't seem like a good faith argument, and I guess you've already made up your mind. So perhaps it is the end of the discussion between us. For everyone else, it goes on.

[joeyluck]

Some progress regarding the case of George Floyd and the protests:
- The charge against the cop who knelt of Georges neck has been raised to 2nd degree murder from the initial 3rd degree murder charge.
- The other three cops have now been arrested and are being charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.
- Confedrate monuments around the country are coming down, something that should've happened long ago.
- More to come. In regards to this movement, as folks have been saying, everybody has to keep pushing forward and not slow up. None of this is enough.

[chimp_spanner]

Some progress regarding the case of George Floyd and the protests:
- The charge against the cop who knelt of Georges neck has been raised to 2nd degree murder from the initial 3rd degree murder charge.
- The other three cops have now been arrested and are being charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.
- Confedrate monuments around the country are coming down, something that should've happened long ago.
- More to come. In regards to this movement, as folks have been saying, everybody has to keep pushing forward and not slow up. None of this is enough.

Step in the right direction, absolutely.

[Boombastix]

One of the things the black community is asking people of the white community is to educate yourself, build up your understanding. Nobody is blaming the living white population for what happened during the slave trading years. And another request is to talk about to your fellow white friends, bring awareness, take a stand against racism. We all can start with that. This video is pretty good.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA-nzSogGy ... kwll3ndiy2

[orthodox]

Some progress regarding the case of George Floyd and the protests:
- The charge against the cop who knelt of Georges neck has been raised to 2nd degree murder from the initial 3rd degree murder charge.
- The other three cops have now been arrested and are being charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.
- Confedrate monuments around the country are coming down, something that should've happened long ago.
- More to come. In regards to this movement, as folks have been saying, everybody has to keep pushing forward and not slow up. None of this is enough.

Step in the right direction, absolutely.

I cannot agree. This is not even a step, this will just make people calm and happy while nothing has really changed. It's been many times before.

[BRIGGS]

"What is going on in the USA and stuff"

one word: chaos

[chimp_spanner]

Step in the right direction, absolutely.

I cannot agree. This is not even a step, this will just make people calm and happy while nothing has really changed. It's been many times before.

Well, tbh I just said the same to my partner and her first words were "not enough - stop it from happening". I guess I was just trying to be a bit optimistic amidst the unrelenting chaos of 2020. But yeah realistically I know it's not enough.

[guitfnky]

it’s not enough, no, but it IS a step—a very small one—in the right direction. how many times has this happened before when there haven’t even been charges brought? it’s not much, but it’s something that can at least give people hope for the possibility of change.

this is going to be a stupid analogy, but it’s the only one I can think of right now...I finished my first novel a couple of years ago. it took 3 years to write and polish. I didn’t sit down and write for hours a day. some days I only had 30 minutes to write, but I was at it nearly every day. after all that time, I’d finished the first draft and revised it until I was satisfied. the point is, it’s all incremental. you can’t always expect change (or to finish your book) quickly, in only a few large steps. sometimes the steps are exceedingly small, but every one is a step needed to get to the end goal. without these charges against all four men, we could rest assured this undoubtedly WOULD be just another murdered black man who’s been denied justice. at least with this small step, there can be hope.

[jam-s]

I think Trevor Noah has some kind of a good explanation for what is going on.

I also wanted to post this. Trevor imho explains quite well how the looting is just a natural consequence of the state of affairs.

[orthodox]

I think Trevor Noah has some kind of a good explanation for what is going on.

This is a weak argumentation imo. Like I came to this world and signed "The Contract' with 'The Society' (hereinafter 'Them') and now that 'The Contract' is broken, the whole world is at fault. And now I feel free to release my anger against random people as I see they belong to the society. This is a very individualistic position, and any terrorist or common criminal can use that logic to justify their actions, at least for themselves.
I can understand going to war after being attacked, but even at war there is some logic, you need to attack the enemy's military potential or infrastructure. Is that private shops on a street? But thank god we're not at war. Btw, God. The guy says in the video about the need of setting a good example. It never worked that way. You can make yourself or the world better only by personal efforts, not looking around how others are doing.

[NDKay]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZmyxRQUYAA ... ame=medium

(how can i show the picture here ? somehow it does not work ? )

From my pov Noahs explanation goes for the feelings ( and also some black us history), for me its not a justification for the riots.
( shorter and direct: it is an explanation for the riots, NOT a justification for the riots)

Pls take a look at the picture i tried to insert here. Many tried to protest peacefully, but NEVER its the "correct" way ?

Dont get me wrong, but can you explain HOW they should do it with the most acceptance ? (... and also with "results" ? )

[chimp_spanner]

I think Trevor Noah has some kind of a good explanation for what is going on.

This is a weak argumentation imo. Like I came to this world and signed "The Contract' with 'The Society' (hereinafter 'Them') and now that 'The Contract' is broken, the whole world is at fault. And now I feel free to release my anger against random people as I see they belong to the society. This is a very individualistic position, and any terrorist or common criminal can use that logic to justify their actions, at least for themselves.
I can understand going to war after being attacked, but even at war there is some logic, you need to attack the enemy's military potential or infrastructure. Is that private shops on a street? But thank god we're not at war. Btw, God. The guy says in the video about the need of setting a good example. It never worked that way. You can make yourself or the world better only by personal efforts, not looking around how others are doing.

I don't agree. I mean, I'm not saying there's no such thing as personal choice or autonomy. Obviously there is. But we also don't exist in isolation. We're people, living in a society of people, in a world full of societies, making and re-making ourselves and each other. If this wasn't at least partly true then culture, politics, art; they'd have no power or meaning or influence. What would it mean to be a leader if everyone did only what they feel they should do and only influenced themselves? I dunno, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

I watched a really interesting video a while ago about humour, and how it's not just a one way exchange; performer to audience. It's a feedback loop. We form this weird agreement on context. We allow ourselves to be 'conducted' by the performer, and we conduct them with our response. On a bigger scale I think the same is true. Setting a good example in a community, or in government, or on the world stage is important IMO. It means something. What goes on "down here" on our level is always connected to what goes on "up there". I firmly believe in a collective psyche. And it can be well, or it can be unwell.

[chimp_spanner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZmyxRQUYAA ... ame=medium

(how can i show the picture here ? somehow it does not work ? )

From my pov Noahs explanation goes for the feelings ( and also some black us history), for me its not a justification for the riots.
( shorter and direct: it is an explanation for the riots, NOT a justification for the riots)

Pls take a look at the picture i tried to insert here. Many tried to protest peacefully, but NEVER its the "correct" way ?

Dont get me wrong, but can you explain HOW they should do it with the most acceptance ? (... and also with "results" ? )

I'm very aware that not everything going on on the ground is directly connected to the movement. There are some bad actors, for sure. But they're such a tiny (but highly visible) minority. In general, I refrain from telling people how they should exercise their anger precisely for the reasons in this image. The PotUS directly attacked (and brought the ire of his entire fanbase to bear on) an individual for peacefully expressing a belief. He doesn't get to tell them now that they should behave more peacefully, because it's obvious that all he really wants them to do is shut up and go away. As do a lot of people.

The more I read about the black revolutionaries who were wiretapped, smeared, sabotaged and in some cases murdered BY the government (COINTELPRO), the more I realise it doesn't matter what path you take when you're challenging power. It will always stand in your way.

[jlgrimes]

I'm sure it hasn't been unnoticed to anyone that things are quite stirred up at the moment over here (The USA). And since we are an international community I hope it can be useful to share some thoughts about it. I stand behind #BlackLifeMatters 100%. I am totally against racism and in-justice. This is my perspective.

So, what does #BlackLifeMatters mean? First off what it does NOT mean:
It does NOT mean: ONLY black life matters
It does NOT mean: That other races has something too loose.
It simply means: Black Life Matters, too. It is a statement wishing for equality, political equality, equality in justice, financial equality, basically and equality starting point and opportunity, something the French fought hard for during 1789-1799, during which time The Revolution happened and oppression was purged from society (yeah, I know they chopped the heads off back then).
Following the start of the #BLM movement some started using #AllLivesMatters. However, the use of that phrase is characterized as a dismissal and denial of the racial injustice that BLM tries to highlight.

After the death of George Floyd an outcry is being heard from many in society, blacks, whites, and so on. This is the inequality of justice being addressed and white privilege. The protests on the street is a reflection of that. But mind you though, not everything is what it seems. Chief's of Police have already acknowledged that many protests are being infiltrated and hi-jacked by anarchists that seem to have an agenda to stir up riots and detract from the peaceful BLM message. Police have also reported that caravans are coming in from out of town to loot stores, a form of organized crime units. Twitter has shut down fake accounts belonging to White Supremacists groups trying to create divisiveness of the protests. In the midst of this protesters are angry too and the police is responding many times with an unacceptable amount of counter force. Many incidents have been documented of un-provoked violence by the police shooting rubber bullets and smoke grenades directly at protester aiming to hurt, including journalists. The FBI has established a group to investigate the police brutality happening during these protests. There is a great deal of complexity going on and it is very difficult to sort through sometimes what is going on, what is right and what is wrong. Good info is spread on social media as well as misleading info. Remember this is not a Black vs White war, it is an Everyone vs Evil war.

But what is white privilege? Is it bad, have you done something wrong because you are white, no! It simply means a white person can be out on the street and do not have to fear for their lives because of their skin color if confronted by the police, even when that person has committed a traffic infraction or petty crime. It means they will be treated with respect going in to a bank doing their usual business, or going to a restaurant for a meal without being harassed for their skin color, it means not being paid less because of your skin color, it means not being called the N-word, it means not being denied health care due to your skin color, it means that institutionalized racism in the police and judiciary system does not put you at a disadvantage, and so on. The black community wants equal rights and treatment in society too, basically asking for Black Privilege to co-exist with White Privilege.

The socioeconomic disadvantaged that black children are born into is another difficult issue to adress, especially as post WWII wealth is rapidly building up within a few individual families and corporations, the so called 1%, and the trickle down effect is just an illusion portrayed by the 1%. I think this video is a good illustration how children are born into this inequality - it is heart breaking:

I will say that issues of Police Brutality (and many times citizens) against minorities without justice has been going on for a very long time. This was basically the reason the Black Panthers were formed in the 60s. The oldest case I remember in my time though was Amadou Diallo back in 99 who was murdered by the Police in the Bronx, NY who was standing outside his residence by undercover officers with no badges. He was shot 41 times after he pulled out a wallet (attempting to identify himself) which the police mistakened for a gun. This was a case where the cops actually admitted to making a mistake. That said the system tried the case in Albany, NY (a place with a less diverse jury pool), and the jury still did not find the police guilty of criminal charges. There were also plenty of incidents in the 2000s where incidents of unarmed blacks being murdered by the cops, many of times barely making the news except maybe only locally with minimal (if any) protests. This changed in the 2010s with Trayvon Martin who was murdered by a armed Neighborhood watch guy George Zimmerman who suspected he was a burglar (he was outside standing on the street). Zimmerman called 911 and was told not to pursue the individual by the 911 official and wait for the Police. Zimmerman ignored 911's advice and pursued anyway and a fight ensued which ended up with Zimmerman shooting Trayvon. Zimmerman was found Not Guilty. This caused national outcry in the Black Community and peaceful protests. These protests are because of the frequency of Blacks getting murdered by either the Police or citizens with no justice for either the Police or citizens who murdered the individual. People are getting tired of this and that is the reason for the protesting.

That said until the higher ups in the Police force, District Attorneys, Politicians start feeling pressure (their jobs, careers, and in some cases, life not behind bars need to be on the line) I dont think much will be done. Once the higher ups feel the pressure, things will change fast.

There was just another individual in the Georgia area who was jogging and was a suspected Burglar by some Whites in the neighborhood. They decided not to call the police but chase the individual with their cars and shoot him down. Keep in mind the guy is unarmed. Keep in mind the local government officials didnt even arrest any of the murderers until video leaks of the incident a few months later.

So these protests aren't about any single incident but the culmination of a whole bunch of incidents over the years.

[chimp_spanner]

Yeah Ahmaud Arbery. That video was SO hard to watch. And the whole situation with ties to law enforcement hampering/delaying arrest is just messed up. Kinda sad that he's now faded into the background.

[NDKay]

You can make yourself or the world better only by personal efforts, not looking around how others are doing.

I have a very "many-sided" minding with that sentence:

First.... its right.... its like the basic maxim: behave towards your environment as you would like to be treated yourself. ( maybe also KARMA ? )

Second... for some people it is kind of a justification for looking away when they see bad things happening, you know like : its not me whos doing it - or other similar explanations. ( and i am really not implying that youre doing that ! )

Third... its somewhat of a misconception, because like Joey mentioned ( in the "Political Music in 2020 ?" thread) "what do people consider to be politics?" For me politics is everything, cuz who makes the rules ? ( like us getting DAW´s and VST´s and Hardware - all depends on rule making politics) and like mentioned by chimp spanner, were all living in a society and yes, mostly we have to behave to rules of a contract nearly nobody of us has signed himself directly or let me say got asked in any way ? And yeah, whos making the rules ? In a demoracy EVERYBODY should be involved of the process of "law making" ( of course, ideological saying ) , but thats not how things work .
Everbody knows what rules the world...... Money (Suprise Suprise) . So how can it be in any kind of way a "conspiracy theory" that those who have the most money decide what is getting done and which rules apply to whom ? ( you know why lawyers get paid so much ? just one example ) This hole case is even bigger than i can write here down now and because i dont want to crash the thread i´ll just go down the "Looter" Example : What looting seems to be depends on how you look at it - Where does earning end and enrichment start ? And this depends again on how you look at the situation or better from which point.....

...ohhh, im getting toooo deep now, there is no easy explanation for all these things, because everything in our world is build by "many different building blocks" - so the problems are also . ( I hope somebody can follow me XD)

Fourth... adding to the first ( and ending this post): its not the "the" answer, it is a part of it

[NDKay]

I'm very aware that not everything going on on the ground is directly connected to the movement. There are some bad actors, for sure. But they're such a tiny (but highly visible) minority. In general, I refrain from telling people how they should exercise their anger precisely for the reasons in this image. The PotUS directly attacked (and brought the ire of his entire fanbase to bear on) an individual for peacefully expressing a belief. He doesn't get to tell them now that they should behave more peacefully, because it's obvious that all he really wants them to do is shut up and go away. As do a lot of people.

The more I read about the black revolutionaries who were wiretapped, smeared, sabotaged and in some cases murdered BY the government (COINTELPRO), the more I realise it doesn't matter what path you take when you're challenging power. It will always stand in your way.

Thats another really important factor which is very true. Undermining and destroying the "reputation" !

[Wook]

Wish I was there. Need a new tv.

[Proboscis]

And I've also seen footage of black owned stores being trashed anyway,

Sure dude. Just like your responses to "Reason is crap because it doesn't have feature X" with "But Cubase doesn't have it either"

It's a shit reply matrix in which you follow, quite often, really.

I have a physical disability. When someone attempts to connect with that by saying "oh yea, many people in the world have a degree of that", it doesn't help me walk like a normal person. It's not a sign of empathy, in fact it's a fucking insult. I don't give a fuck about 'other people with my condition'

The reality is, *SOME* storefronts with BLM signage are spared, while those around them are smashed and looted. If a working class caucasian store owner were to put signs in his/her window saying "REPUBLICAN. PATRIOT. #45 for 2020", they would most certainly not be spared by the looting, rioting fuckwits.

Which is why is becomes a 'race' issue, on the other side of the mirror.

I've experienced the same discrimination in the gay community. If I'm not gay, then I am the enemy, by default. Which is fucking ridiculous.

[chimp_spanner]

And I've also seen footage of black owned stores being trashed anyway,

Sure dude. Just like your responses to "Reason is crap because it doesn't have feature X" with "But Cubase doesn't have it either"

It's a shit reply matrix in which you follow, quite often, really.

I have a physical disability. When someone attempts to connect with that by saying "oh yea, many people in the world have a degree of that", it doesn't help me walk like a normal person. It's not a sign of empathy, in fact it's a fucking insult. I don't give a fuck about 'other people with my condition'

The reality is, *SOME* storefronts with BLM signage are spared, while those around them are smashed and looted. If a working class caucasian store owner were to put signs in his/her window saying "REPUBLICAN. PATRIOT. #45 for 2020", they would most certainly not be spared by the looting, rioting fuckwits.

Which is why is becomes a 'race' issue, on the other side of the mirror.

I've experienced the same discrimination in the gay community. If I'm not gay, then I am the enemy, by default. Which is fucking ridiculous.

**Edited and DM'd.

[MrFigg]

Wish I was there. Need a new tv.

The Revolution will not be Televised

[Proboscis]

^^^^^^ DUDE ^^^^^

You rock, Mr Figg. Seriously.

[Proboscis]

This one's for you , Figg...