Concidering another DAW which other DAW comes closest to Reason

[Rectro]

Hi.

Iv been using Reason for a while now, originally came from a much older version of Cubase vest 5.1. Dont get me wrong I like reason, but dont like Propellerheads licencing meaning their not allowing racks to be transfered if one sells their licence, its totally out of order, and think before I invest more money into racks I should consider what else compares to reason such as Cubase pro 9. I can see me spending hundreds over the years on racks to think that if I wish to move on I cant because of my investment into reason racks.

My question is for thoes of you who use more than one DAW, what your thoughts on the newer DAWs out there, I have a big gap in my knowledge of what other DAWs are like since Cubase vst 5. Is there any advantages in getting another one anyway, if so how well does reasons rewire work?

Things I like about reason are the SLR mixer, and the racks virtual section, sequencer wise remember cubase gave more options and the wave form was easier to zoom in on, right in, and scrub which reason dont have. It seems that VST get the new synths first, and are sellable if are not needed anymore.

Thanks Dan

[Jmax]

Ableton is quite nice and really solid once you get the basic ins and outs. Studio One 3 is also top tier and has a beautiful interface. I never did like Cubase for some reason. I'm personally thinking about also getting Bitwig Studio 2. There's no need to just pick one. Just use them all!

[Loque]

I tried Ableton Live once and i liked it very much, but it seems it does not support multicore Rewire. Tbh, Reason lacks some realy basic features like editing in place, curves for automation, ghost tracks, bigger sample display, latency compensation,VST support and so on...

You should give some hints what you are really misding, so maxbe others can give some good suggestions. From actual Cubase, if still someone uses it, i only hear that it is more crashing than running.

[EdGrip]

Studio One is great for zipping around zooming in on waveforms to cut and dice. I keep the free version around for just that purpose. I trialled the full version, but there was a weird volume-jumping/clipping problem which customer support weren't able to resolve before the trial period ended. I'm sure we'd have got there in the end, though, and the interface is great if you like your DAWs more conventional.

I've always felt that if I were to get a 2nd DAW, it would be Live or Bitwig for the clip-launching/session view business. That's a real tangle whole other thing that Reason doesn't do. Bitwig 2 has just been announced; I'm waiting to see what they do with Live 10.

[raymondh]

If I was going to have a 2nd DAW, I'd be trying again to like Ableton Live - seems it is a great option. First time I tried it, it never really grabbed me.

Otherwise - Logic (if you have a MAC), FL Studio or Tracktion would be worth consdering. Tracktion is really easy to use, but it doesn't have the sophistication of other DAWs.

[pjeudy]

Studio One 3 all the way, I love that DAW. Very smart,very flexible modern DAW. I'm no longer hooked on the Look of the SSL Mixer...It still looks good...But I'll take power of Studio one mixer over looks every time!

[KirkMarkarian]

Bitwig, it's built in synths are great, and I like the way it works.

[QVprod]

Studio One 3. It has the most similar feature set to Reason while being a considerably better audio editor.

[parma]

If you are planning on still using Reason with another DAW you probably don't want to go with Bitwig as it doesn't support Rewire. Not that you can't get Reason and Bitwig to work together with other methods but it will be more complicated and prone to problems. If you are looking for that non-linear DAW approach you'd probably be better off with Live.

If you are primarily concerned with audio editing capabilities in a new DAW, ProTools is probably the best at that. But, ProTools uses AAX plugins which aren't offered by all developers (but most of the big names offer it). It does support Rewire though. If you have some experience with Cubase maybe that is the way to go. I've never used it so I don't know how well it handles editing. If you want to go cheap but fully featured there is Cockos Reaper.

I'd spend some time demoing different DAWs. Live, Studio One, ProTools, Reaper, MOTU Digital Performer, FL Studio all have demos you can try.

[Rectro]

Thanks for your replies. One main reason is the propellerhead licencing of racks, If I could get the same racks, for the same money, but free from that licencing then thats one main requirement. At the end of it all its the plugins that end up costing way more than the DAW, so like control over what I do with my plugins.

Dan

[SebAudio]

If it is just for the ability to sell plug-ins when you don't want them anymore, then any DAW that supports VST is ok. If you are on Mac, Logic is powerful and cheap, so you keep money for VST (AU to be right).

[chk071]

One main reason is the propellerhead licencing of racks, If I could get the same racks, for the same money, but free from that licencing then thats one main requirement. At the end of it all its the plugins that end up costing way more than the DAW, so like control over what I do with my plugins.

But doesn't the same apply to ANY DAW out there? If you buy 3 or 4 synth plugins, you'd probably have paid as much as the DAW costs in any case.

Which licensing do you mean? The amount Propellerhead gets from their shop sales? TBH, IMO, it's a fair move. They established the plugin format and platform, they run the shop, and kind of do the marketing that way too, and both parties, developer, and Propellerheard benefit from it.

[Gorgon]

But doesn't the same apply to ANY DAW out there? If you buy 3 or 4 synth plugins, you'd probably have paid as much as the DAW costs in any case.

Which licensing do you mean? The amount Propellerhead gets from their shop sales? TBH, IMO, it's a fair move. They established the plugin format and platform, they run the shop, and kind of do the marketing that way too, and both parties, developer, and Propellerheard benefit from it.

You can sell your other plugins. You can't do that with RE's.

[Rectro]

One main reason is the propellerhead licencing of racks, If I could get the same racks, for the same money, but free from that licencing then thats one main requirement. At the end of it all its the plugins that end up costing way more than the DAW, so like control over what I do with my plugins.

But doesn't the same apply to ANY DAW out there? If you buy 3 or 4 synth plugins, you'd probably have paid as much as the DAW costs in any case.

Which licensing do you mean? The amount Propellerhead gets from their shop sales? TBH, IMO, it's a fair move. They established the plugin format and platform, they run the shop, and kind of do the marketing that way too, and both parties, developer, and Propellerheard benefit from it.

As Gorgon pointed out VSTs you can re sell, RE you cant. Its not the fact that there is anything wrong with paying more for additional add ons against the cost of the core software, its the fact that your invested this money into something that gives you no rights to resell, thats a huge loss if your moving onto another DAW, more so when you have to purchase the VST equilievnt over again while your hundreds if not thousands of dollors worth of RE sit there being used by no one. If Propellerhead want to keep their customers, do so on the merit of their cool software, not on the threat that if you go your loose your investment and be of no use to anyone unless you stay. I dont like being backed into the corner, and this in turn makes me hesitant to splash out on RE. It may be the case that I want to stick with Reason, but I want to do so because I want to, not because im obligated to based on loss.

Dan

[chk071]

Ok, but note that there are VST's from companies which won't allow reselling the plugs too, per EULA. Of course, like other people do, you can take the law in your own hand, claim that you're right, and do it anyway. But consider that most plugin devs are small businesses, and many times, a resale of the plugins means additional work for them, like giving support for the same requests 2, 3 times, and also de-registering, and newl registering the licenses.

TBH, i never quite got why a resale of software has become such a big thing for some. Until 5 years ago, or so, i don't think i ever resold any software, except for games maybe. TBH, i never even considered it. But then, i'm not the type doing big investments into something i'm unsure of using it, also in future times.

[pjeudy]

As Gorgon pointed out VSTs you can re sell, RE you cant. Its not the fact that there is anything wrong with paying more for additional add ons against the cost of the core software, its the fact that your invested this money into something that gives you no rights to resell, thats a huge loss if your moving onto another DAW, more so when you have to purchase the VST equilievnt over again while your hundreds if not thousands of dollors worth of RE sit there being used by no one. If Propellerhead want to keep their customers, do so on the merit of their cool software, not on the threat that if you go your loose your investment and be of no use to anyone unless you stay. I dont like being backed into the corner, and this in turn makes me hesitant to splash out on RE. It may be the case that I want to stick with Reason, but I want to do so because I want to, not because im obligated to based on loss.

Dan

I understand what you mean. But I'm of two minds with this.
1. If you like working in the REASON environment (composing,Midi editing,audio editing, etc..) then you shouldn't be worried about re selling your Plugins. Your focus should be on producing your content. I agree that you never know, maybe one day you would want to change DAW , but in my opinion if that day should come then just change DAW and forget about the money spent on the plugins (Rack Extension).

2. on the other hand I see what you are saying. I my self Switched DAW ...and months after changing for a split second I did think to my self "Mmm it would be cool to sale some, not all the RE's that I have) so I understand your sentiment. But to me I enjoyed the time spent with those RE's and I can still use them when ever I need to.

But Yea......If I could sale an Re. I would have done it months ago. Most people here would have even it they wont say it...The re sale market would be filled with unused CV devises

[Rectro]

As Gorgon pointed out VSTs you can re sell, RE you cant. Its not the fact that there is anything wrong with paying more for additional add ons against the cost of the core software, its the fact that your invested this money into something that gives you no rights to resell, thats a huge loss if your moving onto another DAW, more so when you have to purchase the VST equilievnt over again while your hundreds if not thousands of dollors worth of RE sit there being used by no one. If Propellerhead want to keep their customers, do so on the merit of their cool software, not on the threat that if you go your loose your investment and be of no use to anyone unless you stay. I dont like being backed into the corner, and this in turn makes me hesitant to splash out on RE. It may be the case that I want to stick with Reason, but I want to do so because I want to, not because im obligated to based on loss.

Dan

I understand what you mean. But I'm of two minds with this.
1. If you like working in the REASON environment (composing,Midi editing,audio editing, etc..) then you shouldn't be worried about re selling your Plugins. Your focus should be on producing your content. I agree that you never know, maybe one day you would want to change DAW , but in my opinion if that day should come then just change DAW and forget about the money spent on the plugins (Rack Extension).

2. on the other hand I see what you are saying. I my self Switched DAW ...and months after changing for a split second I did think to my self "Mmm it would be cool to sale some, not all the RE's that I have) so I understand your sentiment. But to me I enjoyed the time spent with those RE's and I can still use them when ever I need to.

But Yea......If I could sale an Re. I would have done it months ago. Most people here would have even it they wont say it...The re sale market would be filled with unused CV devises

The reality of this really hit home recently when someone I know purchased a used copy of reason. The guy selling it is not ever going to return as he has moved on to another DAW. Now this guy sold Reason knowing he wasnt going to use his purchased racks again, he was also happy to give these racks, yep give them to the buyer, but they will just sit there in an account never to be used again. So in these cases why not just let people transfer their whole account to someone else, at least the RE are getting used? The only winner here is Propellerhead as some of the same racks that are sitting their in the sellers account are dorment, and must be purchased again.

As for being productive, Im totally with you there, im in a writers block at the moment, and dont assume the grass is greener on the other side, just looking at my options at the moment, and hope when I get going again I can get into things again, but at the moment im hessetant to purchase racks, especialy if my music creation has finally dried up, id like the option to at lease pass on my racks to someone who can use them.

Dan

[Vince-Noir-99]

Hi Rectro, other DAWs are quite different from Reason but if you are looking for patching synths and FX, have a look at N.I. Reaktor, which works both as a standalone app, as well as a plugin. Bear in mind it's not a DAW though, so Reaktor + Logic Pro X would be a good deal (thanks to Logic's low price) and you'd be covered long term with patching needs, sounds+FX, and lots more features!

Ableton Live has MaxMSP which is similar to Reaktor and allows patching your own Live plugs, but it's a bit less audio-friendly than Reaktor. Also, Live isn't quite up there when it comes to linear workflow (arranging on the timeline), so I'd only consider it if you're really into playing live or plan on working extensively with clips (sort of like a groovebox).

Bitwig is very similar to Live and eventually will also allow custom patching of its devices.

Lastly, I'd mention FL Studio because in my opinion it looks like a cool playground, like the above mentioned programs. Apparently its groovebox-style sequencer is very strong, and it has many native amazing instruments and FX.

Other DAWs alone like Digital Performer, Studio One, ProTools etc.. seem to me more traditionally designed to be audio/midi sequencers like Cubase, first and foremost, so quite far conceptually from Reason & co.

[pjeudy]

The reality of this really hit home recently when someone I know purchased a used copy of reason. The guy selling it is not ever going to return as he has moved on to another DAW. Now this guy sold Reason knowing he wasnt going to use his purchased racks again, he was also happy to give these racks, yep give them to the buyer, but they will just sit there in an account never to be used again. So in these cases why not just let people transfer their whole account to someone else, at least the RE are getting used? The only winner here is Propellerhead as some of the same racks that are sitting their in the sellers account are dorment, and must be purchased again.

I hear you man. Because it never crossed my mind that I would ever use another DAW...and after switching and now wanting to sale some RE's and not being able to . I have sworn to be more careful what I invest my money in. A Propellerhead shop system of no Resale is not attractive to me at all. And if I can avoid such a system any where else I will.

Case in point, I purchase REPRO-1 from uhe, even thought I'm on S1 right now...in the future, if I end up with FL,Logic,Ableton,Bitwig,Sonare..ect (not that I'm planing on it)... All I need to do is simply install on these platforms. No Need to be locked to one DAW no need to repurchase REPRO.

Just like if you purchase an acoustic instrument and you use Ableton as your DAW, if you decide to rebuild your studio say with Logic pro...well your acoustic instrument is not some how locked to Ableton, you can use with any studio set up you want. Moving forward that's the way I want my plugins to be when ever possible.

[FlowerSoldier]

Good point on Logic Pro X price point. Apple subsidizes the price since you have to have Apple Hardware to run it. It's a pretty good bang for the buck. You also get the Camel Audio Alchemy synth. Almost worth $200 bucks for that alone.

[EdGrip]

Note that with the release of The Legend, Synapse have said that an RE purchase gets you the VST plugin for free, and vice versa. I think this is a great move, as it basically means I can *definitely* buy The Legend without having to worry about any future DAW shift and RE/VST politics. And as a result I WILL buy it.
I think any company that has devices in both formats would do well to adopt this model.

A lot of REs are Reason-only devices, though, especially CV utilities which are very much a Reason thing. So it's worth bearing that in mind when you're browsing the shop.

[Rectro]

Note that with the release of The Legend, Synapse have said that an RE purchase gets you the VST plugin for free, and vice versa. I think this is a great move, as it basically means I can *definitely* buy The Legend without having to worry about any future DAW shift and RE/VST politics. And as a result I WILL buy it.
I think any company that has devices in both formats would do well to adopt this model.

A lot of REs are Reason-only devices, though, especially CV utilities which are very much a Reason thing. So it's worth bearing that in mind when you're browsing the shop.

Yea I saw that in a thread thats a very good way of selling a pluging giving both platforms. The synth sounds great, maybe you can tell me, what hardware is that based off as there is a modern Moog, and the old one which I prefer the sound of?

Dan

[chk071]

The reality of this really hit home recently when someone I know purchased a used copy of reason. The guy selling it is not ever going to return as he has moved on to another DAW. Now this guy sold Reason knowing he wasnt going to use his purchased racks again, he was also happy to give these racks, yep give them to the buyer, but they will just sit there in an account never to be used again. So in these cases why not just let people transfer their whole account to someone else, at least the RE are getting used? The only winner here is Propellerhead as some of the same racks that are sitting their in the sellers account are dorment, and must be purchased again.

You're right, seems fair enough. Maybe they're scared of a "healthy" second hand market for RE's, because they feel like it could hurt sales.