Mastering through Fiverr

[Ottostrom]

Just felt like sharing the experience I had and wanted to see if anyone has gone through something similar.
I'm almost done with my indie/alternative album which I've been working on for quite a while now, and I decided early on that I was going to mix it myself to get some more experience with using reference tracks and really put effort into getting a good balance. I'm really happy with how it's going and I think it sounds way better than any of my previous work!

But I didn't want to also delve into mastering so I decided to find someone suitable to work with through Fiverr. I found a guy who specifically works in this genre and had many showcase tracks of previous stuff he'd worked on and it all sounded very nice and clean, so I thought I had found a good match (he also has many 5 star reviews).
Got back the first version today and I'm honestly shocked.. It sounded completely destroyed! An insane amount of compression/limiting going on where the whole track is pumping constantly. And the sibilance which I had painstakingly and manually adjusted to be smooth had gotten this weird harsh whistling to it which pierces my ears. While monitoring the track through the Youlean loudness meter I can see that it goes to +0.6 dB many times throughout the song.

Got a revision back almost instantly after voicing my concerns which to no surprise sound equally bad, but quieter. This is just absurd, I can get a better master by using the automatic assistant mode in Ozone..
I don't have the money to start trying out a bunch of different mastering engineers so it feels like the only safe way forward is to do it myself.

[stillifegaijin]

Sorry to hear that. Fiverr is not a good place to get quality work done. I have always found it best to ask fellow artists that you trust who they use for mastering. I spent a good 20 years being very disappointed by all mastering engineers and just did what I could myself. Then I got lucky and found a guy in Portland when I needed to get vinyl pressed and wasn't brave enough to touch that myself. He was highly recommended by other bands here as well as the pressing plant. And now I've been working with him for 5+ years. That's my other recommendation - Once you do find someone stick with them because the work just improves over time as you get used to each other.

[Ottostrom]

Sorry to hear that. Fiverr is not a good place to get quality work done. I have always found it best to ask fellow artists that you trust who they use for mastering. I spent a good 20 years being very disappointed by all mastering engineers and just did what I could myself. Then I got lucky and found a guy in Portland when I needed to get vinyl pressed and wasn't brave enough to touch that myself. He was highly recommended by other bands here as well as the pressing plant. And now I've been working with him for 5+ years. That's my other recommendation - Once you do find someone stick with them because the work just improves over time as you get used to each other.

Yep, that's all very good advice. I would love to work with someone more local but unfortunately I live in a very small place where the music scene is not thriving at all. Can't even find people who work with similar sort of contemporary styles.

[Benedict]

I tried working on Fiverr for about a year. It is horrifying what happens there. While there are some good people trying to do good work, far too many are none of the above at all. Something that makes it worse is that Fiverr themselves support the worse players by refusing to support and enforce better behavior. Fiverr will let customers approve a job, with reviews saying how great it is, and then demand a refund 3 months later, leaving sellers completely exposed to work delivered, used and then refunded.

As a result, largely it is unskilled conmen laying honey pots with work they stole either from other sellers or online in general. I exposed someone claiming a studio that belonged to a J-Pop band. He then tried to say he trained there. Yet he had no training at all and no actual work to show. He kept replacing the stolen work with more stolen work and Fiverr let him stay. Even told me I was doing the wrong thing in pointing out the truth. They only want to rake in easy money from the lazy. Fiverr have well and truly earned their terrible reputation. There is a reason that someone claims to do $500 work for $5

As for Genres, any decent Mix or Mastering Engineer is not all about one genre. Bob Ludwig Mastered records from everyone. If he did a Public Enemy record it would have been as good as a Jackson Browne record. Just find the right person, not a skillset.

I do wonder: Why not work with one of the people you know here on the RT forum? I know there are some of us here who do do this work professionally (as in this is my living) and there are others here as well. You know us already.

[pushedbutton]

......
...
I do wonder: Why not work with one of the people you know here on the RT forum? I know there are some of us here who do do this work professionally (as in this is my living) and there are others here as well. You know us already.

I would highly recommend a guy called Benedict who regularly posts on here, don't know if you've heard of him.
He's probably a bit too busy to drop everything for £5 tho.

[stillifegaijin]

Sorry to hear that. Fiverr is not a good place to get quality work done. I have always found it best to ask fellow artists that you trust who they use for mastering. I spent a good 20 years being very disappointed by all mastering engineers and just did what I could myself. Then I got lucky and found a guy in Portland when I needed to get vinyl pressed and wasn't brave enough to touch that myself. He was highly recommended by other bands here as well as the pressing plant. And now I've been working with him for 5+ years. That's my other recommendation - Once you do find someone stick with them because the work just improves over time as you get used to each other.

Yep, that's all very good advice. I would love to work with someone more local but unfortunately I live in a very small place where the music scene is not thriving at all. Can't even find people who work with similar sort of contemporary styles.

If you wanna check out the guy I work with his website is here - https://telegraphmastering.com - His name is Adam. You don't need to be local. Everything can be transferred through the website. I am in the same city with him, but I don't go to the studio or attend sessions. We've met and hung out but as far as work goes I just let him do his thing. He sends me the master and I send him any notes I have though most of the time I have very few (maybe 1 or 2 songs on a 10 song album) and regularly no notes at all.

Also, yeah, as the other folks recommend you might be able to find someone through ReasonTalk.

Best of luck! I feel your pain!

[Benedict]

......
...
I do wonder: Why not work with one of the people you know here on the RT forum? I know there are some of us here who do do this work professionally (as in this is my living) and there are others here as well. You know us already.

I would highly recommend a guy called Benedict who regularly posts on here, don't know if you've heard of him.
He's probably a bit too busy to drop everything for £5 tho.

Thanks Mr Button

That's AUD$9.41 (today) (less 20% fees to Fiber/Upjerk, the next set of fees to export that money to PayPal, who add another fee)! approx AUD$7 real that I might get in 6 months' time.

Less than 1/3rd an hour's basic wage so not conducive to: Writing, Mixing & Mastering to industree standardz a guaranteed Grammy-winnin' symphony okestra Trailer OST (for a film not even created) LOL

[Ottostrom]

I tried working on Fiverr for about a year. It is horrifying what happens there. While there are some good people trying to do good work, far too many are none of the above at all. Something that makes it worse is that Fiverr themselves support the worse players by refusing to support and enforce better behavior. Fiverr will let customers approve a job, with reviews saying how great it is, and then demand a refund 3 months later, leaving sellers completely exposed to work delivered, used and then refunded.

As a result, largely it is unskilled conmen laying honey pots with work they stole either from other sellers or online in general. I exposed someone claiming a studio that belonged to a J-Pop band. He then tried to say he trained there. Yet he had no training at all and no actual work to show. He kept replacing the stolen work with more stolen work and Fiverr let him stay. Even told me I was doing the wrong thing in pointing out the truth. They only want to rake in easy money from the lazy. Fiverr have well and truly earned their terrible reputation. There is a reason that someone claims to do $500 work for $5

This is what I was worried about (and have heard before) but I guess I just had to try it myself to understand how bad the situation is. I'm pretty convinced that the guy was using stolen showcase tracks since the difference in quality was so remarkable.
I did pay 50€ for the mastering (per track but I thankfully only did one) which I know is not a lot either but at that price I would at least expect something usable.

As for Genres, any decent Mix or Mastering Engineer is not all about one genre. Bob Ludwig Mastered records from everyone. If he did a Public Enemy record it would have been as good as a Jackson Browne record. Just find the right person, not a skillset.

This is a good point and I was wondering if anyone was going to point this out when I wrote about specific genres! I do agree with this in most cases and especially if we're only talking about mastering since that alone shouldn't change the actual sound of the song all that much. But having worked with other musicians, producers and audio people in general I've noticed that if they're not already involved in more alt genres they sometimes don't get the vibe at all. The music I listen to (and make) doesn't try to hide the fact that it's made by people and not studios. Part of the charm is having recordings that could be considered "incorrect" by more traditional standards, as it is not trying to be a radio hit. And because of this I would much prefer working with someone who I know understands what the music is going for and who doesn't try to remove it. But as I said, this would be way more relevant if we were talking about mixing and not just mastering.

I do wonder: Why not work with one of the people you know here on the RT forum? I know there are some of us here who do do this work professionally (as in this is my living) and there are others here as well. You know us already.

True! I guess my biggest concern would be that the people who work with music professionally here would be out of my budget

[Ottostrom]

Yep, that's all very good advice. I would love to work with someone more local but unfortunately I live in a very small place where the music scene is not thriving at all. Can't even find people who work with similar sort of contemporary styles.

If you wanna check out the guy I work with his website is here - https://telegraphmastering.com - His name is Adam. You don't need to be local. Everything can be transferred through the website. I am in the same city with him, but I don't go to the studio or attend sessions. We've met and hung out but as far as work goes I just let him do his thing. He sends me the master and I send him any notes I have though most of the time I have very few (maybe 1 or 2 songs on a 10 song album) and regularly no notes at all.

Also, yeah, as the other folks recommend you might be able to find someone through ReasonTalk.

Best of luck! I feel your pain!

Thank you for the recommendation! This does look a lot more legit, and he has quite an impressive client list with some artist I've heard of
The price difference for mastering 7 tracks wouldn't even be that huge compared to the Fiverr guy so it is a pretty good option.

[Benedict]

As for Genres, any decent Mix or Mastering Engineer is not all about one genre. Bob Ludwig Mastered records from everyone. If he did a Public Enemy record it would have been as good as a Jackson Browne record. Just find the right person, not a skillset.

This is a good point and I was wondering if anyone was going to point this out when I wrote about specific genres! I do agree with this in most cases and especially if we're only talking about mastering since that alone shouldn't change the actual sound of the song all that much. But having worked with other musicians, producers and audio people in general I've noticed that if they're not already involved in more alt genres they sometimes don't get the vibe at all. The music I listen to (and make) doesn't try to hide the fact that it's made by people and not studios. Part of the charm is having recordings that could be considered "incorrect" by more traditional standards, as it is not trying to be a radio hit. And because of this I would much prefer working with someone who I know understands what the music is going for and who doesn't try to remove it. But as I said, this would be way more relevant if we were talking about mixing and not just mastering.

I do wonder: Why not work with one of the people you know here on the RT forum? I know there are some of us here who do do this work professionally (as in this is my living) and there are others here as well. You know us already.

True! I guess my biggest concern would be that the people who work with music professionally here would be out of my budget

Thanks for the complete reply (some of which I removed for display purposes).

The Genre thing is part of what I mean when talking about Story. A passable "technical" engineer can make technically passable (but often rather thin or flat) results with anything they do, particularly if they have followed the modern trend as encouraged by people like that six figure recording studio guy where people are encouraged to build genre-specific sausage factories. Story in this sense means that if the music has a Story (like you indicated), the creative engineer should be looking at that story and understanding it before doing any work. I listen to things to see if I feel I can relate before taking the job; if I can't relate in some way and feel that I can deliver, I decline. If in, I apply my Art to client Art to help tell the Story (not lick client boot). This is how we find real magic (which if I get you right, you are hoping for).

Without trying to skite: This is a situation that was really very dramatic. I don't have the before but it was a pretty darned safe mix. While it was safe and polite, the mix hid the story of this song. Radio would have passed it over for being beige. Many will pass this mix over for being too scary but true Alt-Agggro-Poli stations should be all over this like a rash as it is their story writ large.

The other part of this is that I don't think that I agree with a word of what Scott Free is ranting here. But it is compelling and should be so to do its job: which is a) to make us think, and b) build real engaged fans. It is a story worth telling so it is my job is to help the story get told as I feel it needs to find those few right people. That is what makes amazing work and what I believe the true task of the Indie Artist is.

As for costs, we all compete with everyone. Take a different tack, find the right fit as a person and then see how to make it work. If they think you are the right fit for them, they will also be looking for ways to make it work. If not, move along with your real aims in mind & heart.

[BumCuddle]

This is so easy to do..ozone 9, load track up, click assistant, apply suggested settings and collect money but then you'd also have to have no morals.

[Benedict]

This is so easy to do..ozone 9, load track up, click assistant, apply suggested settings and collect money but then you'd also have to have no morals.

This is exactly the FIberr/Upjerk mindset. Except they either use a Crack, say they use Ozone then use a cardboard box, or worse use the default tools in Audacity (no flaming) and claim it was done with real Analog Gear at Aggy Road.

The only possible art in that approach is that of the Artful Dodger. At the expense of morality and of course the Music which has become less than irrelevant.

BTW in this case I would be using Fiverr's propensity to favor the customer and taking my money back as if the work is not as portfolio work indicated, that is a definite case for a refund. Take what is yours back seeing it was never earned.

[Ottostrom]

The Genre thing is part of what I mean when talking about Story. A passable "technical" engineer can make technically passable (but often rather thin or flat) results with anything they do, particularly if they have followed the modern trend as encouraged by people like that six figure recording studio guy where people are encouraged to build genre-specific sausage factories. Story in this sense means that if the music has a Story (like you indicated), the creative engineer should be looking at that story and understanding it before doing any work. I listen to things to see if I feel I can relate before taking the job; if I can't relate in some way and feel that I can deliver, I decline. If in, I apply my Art to client Art to help tell the Story (not lick client boot). This is how we find real magic (which if I get you right, you are hoping for).

This mindset is absolutely something I can get behind!
If the engineer first focuses on finding the story (I like to think of it as the core "feeling" which the song tries to emphasize through all its different elements), then I'm certain they could do a good job with any song.
I respect the fact you actually decline work which you don't feel you can relate to.

[Ottostrom]

This is so easy to do..ozone 9, load track up, click assistant, apply suggested settings and collect money but then you'd also have to have no morals.

Here's something quite surprising that I didn't mention before. After I got back the first master I actually put my initial mix through the auto assist in Ozone, and the Ozone master was way better than what I got from the Fiverr guy
At least Ozone didn't completely invert the dynamics of the track

[PhillipOrdonez]

I am not a mastering engineer but I do mix and master music for clients on "Upjerk". I don't have a cracked version and I don't just use the mastering assistant and call it a day. There's shit people everywhere, and not one single way of working (platforms, in person, studio for hire or whatever) is exclusive to one kind of people.

[Benedict]

story (I like to think of it as the core "feeling" which the song tries to emphasize through all its different elements)

That is as good a definition of Story or Narrative as I have ever seen.


If you are happy with what Ozone does, why not run with that?
If your mix is showing your "Story" well, there is nothing else needed for a Master to do than Finalize that work
(unless it is going to vinyl but then I assume you would have gone to someone recommended by the pressing people).

[Ottostrom]

If you are happy with what Ozone does, why not run with that?
If your mix is showing your "Story" well, there is nothing else needed for a Master to do than Finalize that work
(unless it is going to vinyl but then I assume you would have gone to someone recommended by the pressing people).

That's true.
If I only want the master to sound like the mix but louder then maybe it's enough to run it through a more basic chain and move along!
I appreciate your input on this. Feels like I can justify my own thoughts better when I get to discuss it with people who are way more experienced.

[Benedict]

This is what Groups and Forms are really for.

Maybe you can explain the Why behind the drive to be sending your work off for Mastering. Tell me that Story: