Switching to Logic Pro. Some Reflections

[Klaus-Morlock]

Hi Folks. I thought I'd share my reflections on what has prompted me to switch to Logic as my primary DAW. I don't wish to be negative: merely to provide some food for thought as to where Reason is headed. My reasons for switching, in order of importance, can be summarized as follows:

1. Available Plug-Ins. Yes, synths like Antidote are superb, and there are some fantastic processors available as REs. But I really yearned to use GForce, Waves, Arturia, and U-He products. Yes, these can be approximated in Reason (somewhat), but I wanted a more immediate workflow. Dave Spiers at GForce told me personally that items like the Virtual String Machine and the M-Tron Pro would have been made available as REs, but Reason's SDK has never been updated to the company's satisfaction. This is a great shame. According to Dave it's just a small adjustment to do with preset handling that needs to be made. Why won't Props implement these changes? On the other hand, if it's a choice of 200 compressors and endless CV widgets you're after, the Propellerhead shop is for you. And there's a bunch of absolute rubbish in the shop too. Plus, charging premium prices for refills with no demos attached is a bad thing.

2. Loss of Browsing Focus when Auditioning Presets. I just never got used to this. Got fed up creating new instances of the device in question by mistake. It made it impossible for me to relax whilst auditioning presets.

3. Limited Sequencer. Tons more work needs to be done here. Simple as.

4. Overall "Feel" of the Company. Just not into it. Hipsters and phones is not my glass of tea. Who on earth is interested in adding to someone else's Figure track? Figure allows no room for personal identity at all. It's a gimmicky waste of space. Update the RE SDK instead of developing this line of novelty products.

5. Closing Down of the PUF. That was a nasty thing to do. Over a decade of archived wisdom, and they pulled it.

There are other reasons, but I'll leave it there. I'll almost certainly still do some of my work in Reason, but I'm a little disenchanted by how the company's developing.

Cheers,
Klaus

[marcuswitt]

Hi Klaus,

first of all I respect and appreciate your opinion. But there are some things in what you've written here that caused some questions to come up.

to 1: To me, Dave Spiers seems to be one among those who are blaming the PPH's SDK for not being suitable for their (sample based) VIs to be ported to the RE format. Why do/did other companies manage it to release sample based REs for Reason? When did he release his latest VI for the VST/AU world? Hmm, it sounds like an excuse, IMHO. And if I'm right then he wouldn't be the first one to act like that.
Well, yes, some RE's aren't everybody's cup of tea in terms of price-performance ratio and/or usability. But if you look to the AU/VST market then you can find allot of crappy and pricey things there, too. Just pick the ones that meet your needs and budget and then.... Rock'n Roll. Or not?
Funny that you've mentioned phones and hipsters, especially when you prefer to work with a DAW of (one of) the biggest manufacturers of cell phones.......

to 2: I agree with you that the browser in R8 is far from being perfect and supportive in every situation. It surely has its flaws but also its bright sides, I think. But if you look at Logic's browser, what is it that it does so much better than Reason 8's browser? I'm asking because I'm once-a-year Logic user.

to 3: For instance what kind of tools or features do you miss in R8's sequencer in comparison to Logic's? I find Reason's sequencer/recorder very easy and pretty straight forward to work with. But that's only my opinion based on using it on a nearly daily basis.

to 4: Does Apple as a company make you feel better, seen from a pragmatic point of view? Hmm, if I only look at Apple's customer support......well....

to 5: Closing down the PUF was just the consequence of many things that went wrong in that old and 'rotten' forum, mainly caused by some of us users. I totally understand why the PPHs were fed up with the PUF. Is Apple's own Logic-relevant forum really so good, if that exists anyway?

Nevertheless, have fun making music - no matter what DAW you prefer, because it's the freedom of choice that makes the bunch of flowers colorful.

Cheers.

[Klaus-Morlock]

Thanks, Marcus. Some great points here. Dave told me that an RE VSM had been built and was ready to go, but SDK limitations meant that it didn't perform as elegantly as he and Chris Macleod wanted. Dave was genuinely disappointed that these changes hadn't been made, and not having a clue about coding myself, I assumed that what he said was valid. I'm still convinced it's valid. Force's last release was the Oddity 2, which is one of my favourite synths.

As for the hipster thing, it's really just the revulsion I feel whenever I see Reason's front page.

As for Logic, time will tell.

Cheers,
Klaus

[joeyluck]

I like how you announce that you don't wish to be negative and then make the hipster comment. The fact that you see that, and feel that based off a few images, and ultimately act upon that sheds light on a more personal issue.

And as if 'hipsters' don't use Apple products?
But I do have a news flash... Hipsters are using software that we haven't even heard about ;P

Unless of course we are all just hipsters in denial
:O *plot twist*

[Klaus-Morlock]

Nothing personal, honest. I'm just an old man looking for a better workflow.

Best,
Klaus

[pjeudy]

Hi Folks. I thought I'd share my reflections on what has prompted me to switch to Logic as my primary DAW

This is just a gut feeling ...no proof at all! But it seems on there journey to conquer the world of music sharing...Propellerheads have left the door wide open for people to experiment and eventually like other DAW's It happened to me.
Today buy coincidence I saw a tweet from a REASON only producer (as far as we know) asking about VST plugins... that REASON currently does't have. I asked him if he was in the market for a new DAW... no answer...time will tell.

Propellerheads mentioned that they spent a year working/building the infrastructure of the new web site...they are a small company right ? so I take that to mean it took some focus away from advancing REASON. But If they have been working on there DAW updates, I can't wait to see what they call an update when it's released, again time will tell.
I can say honestly if Propellerhead had released a workflow/features improvement update instead of..?? Allihoopa (hope I spelled it right) I don't even want to bother looking it up. I would have never experimented with another DAW.

This is the current biggest thread *first pages only* on the entire Reasontalk web site right now : When Do You Think We Will See Reason 9?
Only beaten by 2 other threads in the Kitchen of all places! So yea.....Propellerheads Journey into Music sharing left a drought in REASON land and an opportunity for other company!

[dvdrtldg]

How about we all stop using the word "hipster" for the next 10 years or so

[jfrichards]

Don't ever sell your license. I can hear in your music that you need Reason and Logic. They are quite different and you walk down both paths. It's like a guitarist who needs an electric and an acoustic, a painter who needs a canvas and a brick wall, a baby who needs a teddy bear and a mud puddle. Primary changes day to day, month to month, and year to year. Enjoy it.

[Klaus-Morlock]

Kind words, sir. You're 100% correct.

Cheers,
Klaus

[andreymarchenko]

My 2 cents here... I'm in production more than 10 years. Music that i did not only in soundcloud that in my signature. I did some stuff for advertisement, also have experimental music project and etc. My music - it's my music. It is what it is, good or bad - no matter at case of this topic. But! I hard user of: Cubase, Ableton Live, Logic Pro, Reaper, S1, Bitwig. And i want to ask you: Are you really need all this sequencer features? Are you really need this supa-drupa browser's functions? Are you really need all this VSTs? What i've learned thru years is that idea - it's a main thing! Music and ideas.

All this VSTs just a product that big boys want to sell and you start thinking in a next vector: "If i got this thing my music will ... and with this thing i definitely will right more music!". No. Answer is - no.

Week ago i installed Reason just for fun and after 2 days of using my first thought was: "Now i don't need nothing. I found what i was looking for.". Creative workflow and simple interface

P.S.: I'm not trying to be a fan boy. I know minuses but it's just not important for me.

[Klaus-Morlock]

"Are you really need all this sequencer features?" No.

"Are you really need this supa-drupa browser's functions?" I just don't want to lose browsing focus in the way that I do in Reason.

"Are you really need all this VSTs?" Yes.

[andreymarchenko]

Anyway.. All of us need to find things that works only for us

[Gulale]

Hi Folks. I thought I'd share my reflections on what has prompted me to switch to Logic as my primary DAW

This is just a gut feeling ...no proof at all! But it seems on there journey to conquer the world of music sharing...Propellerheads have left the door wide open for people to experiment and eventually like other DAW's It happened to me.
Today buy coincidence I saw a tweet from a REASON only producer (as far as we know) asking about VST plugins... that REASON currently does't have. I asked him if he was in the market for a new DAW... no answer...time will tell.

Propellerheads mentioned that they spent a year working/building the infrastructure of the new web site...they are a small company right ? so I take that to mean it took some focus away from advancing REASON. But If they have been working on there DAW updates, I can't wait to see what they call an update when it's released, again time will tell.
I can say honestly if Propellerhead had released a workflow/features improvement update instead of..?? Allihoopa (hope I spelled it right) I don't even want to bother looking it up. I would have never experimented with another DAW.

This is the current biggest thread *first pages only* on the entire Reasontalk web site right now : When Do You Think We Will See Reason 9?
Only beaten by 2 other threads in the Kitchen of all places! So yea.....Propellerheads Journey into Music sharing left a drought in REASON land and an opportunity for other company!

I totally agree with you. I wouldn't look for Logic Pro x if it wasn't for Reason 8. Added Studio one perfect combination. Who knows may be the tweet you saw was an indirect advertisement knowing Propellerhead to support VST. Time will tell. That is the only thing I might consider impressive.

have you seen the number of Re plugin at KVR and did you compare that even with linux OS? The linux doubles the Re we have in the market. comparing with VST is just a joke. What scarbee native instruments released in 2009 just coming last year in Reason. So slow. Hopefully Reason 9 will come soon and hold users from switching DAWs.

[dioxide]

I broadly agree with some of the OP's points. I'm looking forward to the next version of the RE SDK. It feels like a lot of time has been wasted on mobile apps and Discover.

[DRSL6453]

Hi Folks. I thought I'd share my reflections on what has prompted me to switch to Logic as my primary DAW. I don't wish to be negative: merely to provide some food for thought as to where Reason is headed. My reasons for switching, in order of importance, can be summarized as follows:

1. Available Plug-Ins. Yes, synths like Antidote are superb, and there are some fantastic processors available as REs. But I really yearned to use GForce, Waves, Arturia, and U-He products. Yes, these can be approximated in Reason (somewhat), but I wanted a more immediate workflow. Dave Spiers at GForce told me personally that items like the Virtual String Machine and the M-Tron Pro would have been made available as REs, but Reason's SDK has never been updated to the company's satisfaction. This is a great shame. According to Dave it's just a small adjustment to do with preset handling that needs to be made. Why won't Props implement these changes? On the other hand, if it's a choice of 200 compressors and endless CV widgets you're after, the Propellerhead shop is for you. And there's a bunch of absolute rubbish in the shop too. Plus, charging premium prices for refills with no demos attached is a bad thing.

2. Loss of Browsing Focus when Auditioning Presets. I just never got used to this. Got fed up creating new instances of the device in question by mistake. It made it impossible for me to relax whilst auditioning presets.

3. Limited Sequencer. Tons more work needs to be done here. Simple as.

4. Overall "Feel" of the Company. Just not into it. Hipsters and phones is not my glass of tea. Who on earth is interested in adding to someone else's Figure track? Figure allows no room for personal identity at all. It's a gimmicky waste of space. Update the RE SDK instead of developing this line of novelty products.

5. Closing Down of the PUF. That was a nasty thing to do. Over a decade of archived wisdom, and they pulled it.

There are other reasons, but I'll leave it there. I'll almost certainly still do some of my work in Reason, but I'm a little disenchanted by how the company's developing.

Cheers,
Klaus

totally agree ..looks like to me they are catering to their new consumers who are new to reason and just starting out as producers.. if not they would have already stepped up their game in the DAW world.. dont get me wrong reason is a great product they are still years behind the other daws on the market..and i did the same as you made Logic Pro X my main DAW. I have studio one 3but its something about Logic that keeps pulling me back in..i am in no way putting Reason Down just saying they need to step it up

[PGR]

Two questions to answere:
1. Do I make better music with XXX music software compared to Reason?
If yes, change to XXX music software

If not

2. Do I make music faster with XXX music software compared to Reason?
If yes, change to XXX music software

If not

Keep Reason

[ravisoni]

Two questions to answere:
1. Do I make better music with XXX music software compared to Reason?
If yes, change to XXX music software

If not

2. Do I make music faster with XXX music software compared to Reason?
If yes, change to XXX music software

If not

Keep Reason

If somebody would take the big step of altogether changing the primary workspace, I would hazard the answe to both would be yes. I'd be surprised if anyone (maybe save a few) would make changing DAWs an impulsive decision.

[pjeudy]

I'd be surprised if anyone (maybe save a few) would make changing DAWs an impulsive decision.

Exactly.

[ZombieFightsShark]

But I do have a news flash... Hipsters are using software that we haven't even heard about ;P

Lol. I'm using a TI-84 calculator synced to a tracker.... Until it becomes cool.

[Ahornberg]

My 2 cents about VSTs by Waves and u-he:

Both companies make great sounding plugins that eat up a lot of CPU.
The question for me is, do I need those subtle enhancements in sound at the price of bouncing down to audio and interrupting my creative process?
Do I want overlapping plugin windows on my screen instead of a rack?
Do I want to be limited in my routing- and modulation-options?

... and if I really want to have a Diva sound I use JackAudio or bounce it to disk

[Vince-Noir-99]

My 2 cents about VSTs by Waves and u-he:

Both companies make great sounding plugins that eat up a lot of CPU.
The question for me is, do I need those subtle enhancements in sound at the price of bouncing down to audio and interrupting my creative process?
Do I want overlapping plugin windows on my screen instead of a rack?
Do I want to be limited in my routing- and modulation-options?

... and if I really want to have a Diva sound I use JackAudio or bounce it to disk

Good points! Especially the floating windows and CPU efficiency. Even Ableton didn't win at that.