ReasonTalk.com

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

Anyone using these? Sweetwater has them for $129 a pair. I like all inputs but wondering if they will have enough low end with a 5".

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

Haven’t used them so I can’t comment on quality , but 5” speakers definitely won’t have any sub bass so you’ll need to use headphones to compensate for that. You could always add a subwoofer later on. However if you have a small room I’d suggest sticking with the 5” speakers with no sub. Given the turn Behringer has taken with quality in the last few years though, they’re probably ok speakers to get started with.

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

Thanks for the info. I really like all the inputs but the 5" is the problem. Do you know of anything else like this with toslink or usb and TRS ins, powered with an 8" under $500 a pair?

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

I think i'm going to sell my 5" krks and get these.

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

QVprod wrote:Haven’t used them so I can’t comment on quality , but 5” speakers definitely won’t have any sub bass so you’ll need to use headphones to compensate for that. You could always add a subwoofer later on. However if you have a small room I’d suggest sticking with the 5” speakers with no sub. Given the turn Behringer has taken with quality in the last few years though, they’re probably ok speakers to get started with.

What to do folks consider a “small room” these days?

I have 8” woofers and a 12” sub in a 9x10’ room that sounds great (considering the standing wave issues). I’ve never understood the “don’t pump low end into a small room” advice, since you want all frequencies possible on at least one of your systems when mixing (besides phones). Speaking of phones, even headphones, conceivably the smallest room there is, produce the entire range of frequencies.

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Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

selig wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018

QVprod wrote:Haven’t used them so I can’t comment on quality , but 5” speakers definitely won’t have any sub bass so you’ll need to use headphones to compensate for that. You could always add a subwoofer later on. However if you have a small room I’d suggest sticking with the 5” speakers with no sub. Given the turn Behringer has taken with quality in the last few years though, they’re probably ok speakers to get started with.

What to do folks consider a “small room” these days?

I have 8” woofers and a 12” sub in a 9x10’ room that sounds great (considering the standing wave issues). I’ve never understood the “don’t pump low end into a small room” advice, since you want all frequencies possible on at least one of your systems when mixing (besides phones). Speaking of phones, even headphones, conceivably the smallest room there is, produce the entire range of frequencies.

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Standing waves would be the reason as you mentioned. For well trained ears, you can probably mix around it, but that would be why it’s not recommended.

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

QVprod wrote:
selig wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018

What to do folks consider a “small room” these days?

I have 8” woofers and a 12” sub in a 9x10’ room that sounds great (considering the standing wave issues). I’ve never understood the “don’t pump low end into a small room” advice, since you want all frequencies possible on at least one of your systems when mixing (besides phones). Speaking of phones, even headphones, conceivably the smallest room there is, produce the entire range of frequencies.

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Standing waves would be the reason as you mentioned. For well trained ears, you can probably mix around it, but that would be why it’s not recommended.

I think it’s a classic “myth” caused by the fact that there ARE some cases where big speakers cannot physically work in a small room. But I cannot find anyone saying not to try to reproduce the full spectrum in small rooms!

Standing waves would be a problem with a 5” driver in a small room too - in fact, the smaller the room the higher the standing wave frequency and the more it will be heard with small speaker! Standing waves are a fact of life in ALL rooms!

One issue I HAVE heard concerning room vs speaker size is that if you put in speakers that are designed to integrate at a distance greater than your room will allow, then the speakers are too big for your room. But we’re taking about the number of drivers and their distance from each other, not the frequency response of the system.

Some folks have antidotal stories about putting big speakers in small rooms and them sounding worse than in a bigger room, but they don’t compare them to small speakers in the same room and are also talking about untreated rooms.

So just to refresh my memory, I googled “big speakers in small rooms” and couldn’t find anyone writing that it’s a bad thing to have low frequencies in small rooms - in many cases they were suggesting using smaller speakers with a sub in small rooms instead of big “home theater” towers.

But none of what I could find argued NOT to try to reproduce the full spectrum in any room size. So yes, you fit the speaker to the room so it will be able to work in your listening position and the proper distance - but no, you should sacrifice low end just because you have a small room. Am happy to look over any other evidence anyone can find, but I couldn’t find any myself and have never heard that specific advice that I can recall.

And for the record, I agree it’s great to have small speakers (I still swear by my NS-10s, which have about a 5” woofer and are pretty flat to just below 100 Hz), but it’s also great to be able to hear (even poorly) any potential crap in the bottom 2 octaves. Just make it so you can turn off the sub to check your mixes - it’s like having two different playback systems to compare!

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Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

selig wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018

QVprod wrote:
Standing waves would be the reason as you mentioned. For well trained ears, you can probably mix around it, but that would be why it’s not recommended.
I think it’s a classic “myth” caused by the fact that there ARE some cases where big speakers cannot physically work in a small room. But I cannot find anyone saying not to try to reproduce the full spectrum in small rooms!

Standing waves would be a problem with a 5” driver in a small room too - in fact, the smaller the room the higher the standing wave frequency and the more it will be heard with small speaker! Standing waves are a fact of life in ALL rooms!

One issue I HAVE heard concerning room vs speaker size is that if you put in speakers that are designed to integrate at a distance greater than your room will allow, then the speakers are too big for your room. But we’re taking about the number of drivers and their distance from each other, not the frequency response of the system.

Some folks have antidotal stories about putting big speakers in small rooms and them sounding worse than in a bigger room, but they don’t compare them to small speakers in the same room and are also talking about untreated rooms.

So just to refresh my memory, I googled “big speakers in small rooms” and couldn’t find anyone writing that it’s a bad thing to have low frequencies in small rooms - in many cases they were suggesting using smaller speakers with a sub in small rooms instead of big “home theater” towers.

But none of what I could find argued NOT to try to reproduce the full spectrum in any room size. So yes, you fit the speaker to the room so it will be able to work in your listening position and the proper distance - but no, you should sacrifice low end just because you have a small room. Am happy to look over any other evidence anyone can find, but I couldn’t find any myself and have never heard that specific advice that I can recall.

And for the record, I agree it’s great to have small speakers (I still swear by my NS-10s, which have about a 5” woofer and are pretty flat to just below 100 Hz), but it’s also great to be able to hear (even poorly) any potential crap in the bottom 2 octaves. Just make it so you can turn off the sub to check your mixes - it’s like having two different playback systems to compare!

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Fair point. I didn't believe standing waves don't exist with smaller speakers, rather that the bass energy has less space to move which creates standing waves. My understanding of the physics (to which I may be wrong) is the smaller the space the larger the standing wave issue hence the common suggestion to place the monitor setup facing the longest side of the room. I can attest that moving my studio set up accordingly allowed me to hear more bass having more distance between the the speakers and the back wall. You're definitely right that size of the room would have an effect on higher frequencies as well. Having a sub to turn off and on with that in mind is an interesting way to deal with the problem. I wouldn't have thought of that.

Posted: **02 Oct 2018**

QVprod wrote: Fair point. I didn't believe standing waves don't exist with smaller speakers, rather that the bass energy has less space to move which creates standing waves. My understanding of the physics (to which I may be wrong) is the smaller the space the larger the standing wave issue hence the common suggestion to place the monitor setup facing the longest side of the room. I can attest that moving my studio set up accordingly allowed me to hear more bass having more distance between the the speakers and the back wall. You're definitely right that size of the room would have an effect on higher frequencies as well. Having a sub to turn off and on with that in mind is an interesting way to deal with the problem. I wouldn't have thought of that.

I used to have a sub that had a footswitch for on/off, very handy! Good to also have it remove the crossover on the satellites when you bypass it.

The standing wave’s frequency is based on the dimensions of the room. So the smaller the room the HIGHER the room mode frequency. Also important to note there are peaks and DIPS - the standing wave can cause a loss of energy as often as a boost, depending on where you are in the space.

The concept of the speaker’s proximity to a wall (boundary) is more to do with “speaker boundary interference”, which is related to room modes but is present and has equal effect in all room sizes. One of the problems with small rooms is you cannot move the speakers far enough away from the walls to avoid this issue. So it’s actually best, unless your speakers are rear ported, to get them as close to the wall as possible in those cases.

In my room, I have an acoustic panel against the wall I face, and cannot get the speaker closer than about 7” from the wall, which is fine because my monitors are rear ported. Still, I see a dip around 700 Hz because of this, which is a frequency totally unrelated to the room dimensions. At first I was confused about what was causing this, so I moved the speaker and re-shot the room and noticed that frequency slightly shifting. So my next step is to swap the 6” panels from behind me with the 7” panels behind the speakers to get an inch closer to the wall, which should be enough to deal with the dip.

So when you align the monitors to the longer dimension, you are able to move the speakers further from the boundary, and as such you get less of the boundary effect. Note that if you DO put the speakers close to the wall, there are often setting on the monitors to account for the fact you are reflecting energy back into the room, causing the low end to be boosted (it’s the low frequencies that wrap around objects and reflect - the high frequencies “beam” more like light and as such are not subject to the boundary effect).
[emoji3]

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Posted: **03 Oct 2018**

I saw your post yesterday, wrote a response, and erased it (usual thing) because I never owned them.

BUT, for my 12x15ish space, Ive had 3", 5", 6.5", and 8"
8" is ridiculous, but 5" still lacks in BASS PRESSURE.

my 6.5" (focals) weigh 28 Pounds. Nice, Focused Pressure.
... they're just right to me.... and, I always monitor 'real-world' VU and LU Controlled LOUDness.
The 50USB weighs 14 Pounds.
And the Kevlar thing on the outside... like my iPhone case now, it's interesting how kevlar has a predictable pattern of cracking/flaking.... fyi ...

Also, digital...? interesting. and, the price is right,... it's convenient... but, I question the LOW END.

Get them and TRY 'em out! ~50 5-star reviews on SweetWater says 'something.'
Beats cabbing back to B and H Photo with a pair of 8" speakers to return.

Good Luck Choosing!
O1B

splangie wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
Anyone using these? Sweetwater has them for $129 a pair. I like all inputs but wondering if they will have enough low end with a 5".

Posted: **03 Oct 2018**

I have the MS-16 and there's very little sub-bass, I believe the freq curve response is 80hz-20khz (for this model). I get around it with my headphones and by looking at EQ's spectrums.

Posted: **03 Oct 2018**

80Hz is a pretty high roll-off. but, they are 4" speakers.

but, there's no way around it - if you have frequencies there (5 - 80 Hz) - unless you accept cutting more than nec.
Music can also FEEL good, fyi. Mine Roll off at 45 or 55Hz, Subwoofer - 2019. Been long enough.

after a quick glance at the EQ Spectrum, -
try LU/VU views (ITB, and real-world) over EQ Spectrum views...

Data_Shrine wrote: ↑
03 Oct 2018
I have the MS-16 and there's very little sub-bass, I believe the freq curve response is 80hz-20khz (for this model). I get around it with my headphones and by looking at EQ's spectrums.

Posted: **03 Oct 2018**

splangie wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
Thanks for the info. I really like all the inputs but the 5" is the problem. Do you know of anything else like this with toslink or usb and TRS ins, powered with an 8" under $500 a pair?

The higher end monitors tend not to have USB options. Don't think there are any toslink options in the pro audio market. As far as 8" monitors under $500 your best or only bet is the Presonus Eris 8s which I've heard good things about https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... nitor-pair

Posted: **03 Oct 2018**

selig wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
...
And for the record, I agree it’s great to have small speakers (I still swear by my NS-10s, which have about a 5” woofer and are pretty flat to just below 100 Hz), but it’s also great to be able to hear (even poorly) any potential crap in the bottom 2 octaves. Just make it so you can turn off the sub to check your mixes - it’s like having two different playback systems to compare!

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I think having a nice set with 5" woofers and a sub that you can turn off is a really good idea. Thanks!

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

selig wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
What to do folks consider a “small room” these days?

I have 8” woofers and a 12” sub in a 9x10’ room that sounds great (considering the standing wave issues). I’ve never understood the “don’t pump low end into a small room” advice, since you want all frequencies possible on at least one of your systems when mixing (besides phones). Speaking of phones, even headphones, conceivably the smallest room there is, produce the entire range of frequencies.

Yeah, I guess it's more of a "always put a low cut" kind of advice. Something you'd tell somebody not because it's exactly right but because it prevents issues for novices. Because for these areas you get issues more quickly and if theres issues then they are _ugly_. It's much easier to solve HF reflection issues than it is to solve LF phasing issues.

Edit: Oh and yeah, didn't hear those speakers but 5" speakers - depending on how they're constructed - can put out 30Hz no problem. But you'd want a separate sub for various different reasons anyway if you're really interested in the low end. But then, really, treat your room with that setup.

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

normen wrote: ↑
04 Oct 2018
Yeah, I guess it's more of a "always put a low cut" kind of advice. Something you'd tell somebody not because it's exactly right but because it prevents issues for novices. Because for these areas you get issues more quickly and if theres issues then they are _ugly_. It's much easier to solve HF reflection issues than it is to solve LF phasing issues.

Edit: Oh and yeah, didn't hear those speakers but 5" speakers - depending on how they're constructed - can put out 30Hz no problem. But you'd want a separate sub for various different reasons anyway if you're really interested in the low end. But then, really, treat your room with that setup.

And also treat your room without that setup. Just treat your room, for goodness sake. And not just the high end (which makes it worse IMO). Broadband absorption/reflection is where it's at, baby…

Again, the advice I've always heard is to not put big speakers in a small space because you cannot sit far enough away from them for their drivers to integrate properly. Big speakers are designed for big rooms. And yes, they are more powerful than you need, which can be solved by simply turning them down in most cases - but again, horses for courses. Put small full range systems in small rooms, put big full range systems in big rooms.

But as far as I've heard that in no way equates to "never pump low frequencies into a small room". Sure, small rooms are very problematic with regards to low frequencies. And bigger rooms are problematic with regards to reverb time. No room size is absolutely perfect, and so they all need to be treated!

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

O1B wrote: ↑
03 Oct 2018
80Hz is a pretty high roll-off. but, they are 4" speakers.

but, there's no way around it - if you have frequencies there (5 - 80 Hz) - unless you accept cutting more than nec.
Music can also FEEL good, fyi. Mine Roll off at 45 or 55Hz, Subwoofer - 2019. Been long enough.

after a quick glance at the EQ Spectrum, -
try LU/VU views (ITB, and real-world) over EQ Spectrum views...

Data_Shrine wrote: ↑
03 Oct 2018
I have the MS-16 and there's very little sub-bass, I believe the freq curve response is 80hz-20khz (for this model). I get around it with my headphones and by looking at EQ's spectrums.

I'm not familiar with LU/VU meters in relation to frequencies, anything ITB you could recommend ? Or is it a matter of isolating said frequencies and using a VU meter to visualize the loudness/amount ?

Could you explain to me why it is better than using the EQ Spectrum ? (or just a spectrum visualizer, like the one in Ableton). With a spectrum I can see the overall loudness of the whole track frequencies. Sorry so many question but I'm curious

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

O1B wrote: ↑
03 Oct 2018
I saw your post yesterday, wrote a response, and erased it (usual thing) because I never owned them.

BUT, for my 12x15ish space, Ive had 3", 5", 6.5", and 8"
8" is ridiculous, but 5" still lacks in BASS PRESSURE.

my 6.5" (focals) weigh 28 Pounds. Nice, Focused Pressure.
... they're just right to me.... and, I always monitor 'real-world' VU and LU Controlled LOUDness.
The 50USB weighs 14 Pounds.
And the Kevlar thing on the outside... like my iPhone case now, it's interesting how kevlar has a predictable pattern of cracking/flaking.... fyi ...

Also, digital...? interesting. and, the price is right,... it's convenient... but, I question the LOW END.

Get them and TRY 'em out! ~50 5-star reviews on SweetWater says 'something.'
Beats cabbing back to B and H Photo with a pair of 8" speakers to return.

Good Luck Choosing!
O1B

splangie wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
Anyone using these? Sweetwater has them for $129 a pair. I like all inputs but wondering if they will have enough low end with a 5".

I think I will get these, listen for a while and get annoyed and then buy a sub. I wonder if I can find a decent one with the same ins? Thanks for all the info.

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

Lots of options out there.

iOS... Decibel X:

I Love This One...
SPECTRE: The power of a real-time Metering Suite

https://spectre.aurchitect.com

There are some nice looking ones these days, but just gimme VU & LU to work with.

Data_Shrine wrote: ↑
04 Oct 2018
I'm not familiar with LU/VU meters in relation to frequencies, anything ITB you could recommend ? Or is it a matter of isolating said frequencies and using a VU meter to visualize the loudness/amount ?

Could you explain to me why it is better than using the EQ Spectrum ? (or just a spectrum visualizer, like the one in Ableton). With a spectrum I can see the overall loudness of the whole track frequencies. Sorry so many question but I'm curious

Posted: **04 Oct 2018**

aeox wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
I think i'm going to sell my 5" krks and get these.

I know Rokits get a lot of hate. But Behinger arent exactly known for making decent monitors.

Posted: **05 Oct 2018**

For those who '"car stereo'd" [CRUTCHFIELD, etc.] - or, still do - this isn't too complicated.

The standard Go-to CAR Speaker size is/was 6"- 6.5". Anybody care to dispute that??
Civics, and Golfs, and Integras. ... little Boxes... NOT, JEEPS.

Oh sure, the car may have COME with 5"... AND, that's why you'd change 'em!

And, it wasn't about Loud, it was about being Precise ... Clear....

You'd do LESS in your ROOM? Well... Have at it!

Posted: **05 Oct 2018**

miscend wrote: ↑
04 Oct 2018

aeox wrote: ↑
02 Oct 2018
I think i'm going to sell my 5" krks and get these.
I know Rokits get a lot of hate. But Behinger arent exactly known for making decent monitors.

I can't be bothered to sell them anyway :p

Posted: **14 Nov 2018**

The 50 USBs came in today and they sound good. Not very good, but much better than fair. The low end is not as bad as I thought it would be. 3.5/5.

Posted: **24 Nov 2018**

I Hope you’re feeling better about them.

If you’re still under the return policy and concerned, now you can really compare them to others you may be thinking about.
I Hope you feel more than 3.5/5 for your speakers. That’s a most important checkpoint.
When I’m in B&H again, I’ll have to give them a listen - if they’re set up.

O1B

splangie wrote: ↑
14 Nov 2018
The 50 USBs came in today and they sound good. Not very good, but much better than fair. The low end is not as bad as I thought it would be. 3.5/5.

Posted: **27 Nov 2018**

Haven’t heard the Behringers, but I recently added a pair of JBL 305p mkIIs to my setup, and I like them a lot. My older 7in studio monitors are fine, but you know ... technology progresses and with the JBLs, I find it so much easier to just mix based on what I’m hearing and not having to constantly compensate for my older speakers’ deficiencies.

Despite the 5in size, I don’t find the JBL’s lacking in the bass dept. The bass is very present, punchy and tight, and I find the bass very close in sound to what I get from reference headphones, which I use in later mix stages for sanity checks, especially for bass elements.

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