Using the Maximizer

[CharlyCharlzz]

Ok... I see you got a bit excited Dan! Nothing wrong with that! Good to see Selig chip in... he really does know what he's talking about

11/2 years is nothing really so I'm sure you are doing really well

Here are some mistakes I have made (relevant or not):

Panning the same material (i.e. no changes) left and right doesn't widen it at all. It just pans it by the difference in the pan amounts. To make parallel material spread across the stereo field you must add some tuning (pitch) or timing (delay) change. Only then will you get the separation expected.

I used to do a lot of things like this, expecting the changes to be as I thought, without really listening whether that was the case. Since learning a LOT from experts here (and they really are) I now challenge my expectations with my ears!! Sounds daft but I used to "hear" so many differences just because I was expecting them. When actually nothing was happening!

My biggest mistake of all was not to realise that there is a difference between mixing and mastering. I was always aiming to get things limiting by a few db to make sure my songs were loud. I even used to mix with a limiter in place! I thought I had to have things hitting 0db to be loud and modern.

Once I realised (thanks to Selig mainly) that it's best to leave lots of headroom when mixing and go for around -12db peaks (I tend to exceed that by quite a bit for beats) my songs started getting much better. If the final mix is peaking at -6 or -4db so what! That's what limiters or other gain units are for.

Hope this doesn't sound condescending... maybe it'll clear something in someone's head somewhere? I was :t0152: before

Okay this leads me to a question I've had! For the last year or so I've taken Selig and others advice on dropping my channels to keep the peak around -12dbfs -10dbfs which has helped quality majorly as if you can get your synths, drums, etc. to found full already around those levels then the mastering stage seems to make it pristine. Yet, even though during the mastering stage (I really have no idea what I'm doing but I try) I keep my levels low where they were during the mixing stage (as I usually don't bounce to wavs) and though my master bus begins to peak out at -.01 dbfs or so, it sounds very quiet. Like my mix is just..I'm not sure, low I suppose. But when I listen to my track everything just sounds right even if it's quiet. So am I needing to starting bumping the levels up on each channel during the master stage? Or am I just mastering it all wrong? I hope I made sense..haha

It's a mastering issue - peak levels do not represent "loudness". Crest Factor, which is the difference between peak and average levels, is a better judge of loudness. 

For example you can have two mixes that both peak at 0.1 dBFS but one sounds a LOT louder than the other. How is this possible? Here's an extreme example: a track that has ONE loud section that hits 0 dBFS vs a track that continually hits 0 dBFS on every beat. Both have a peak level of 0 dBFS, but the second one will obviously sound louder. 

One way you could deal with the first track is to use a limiter that would 'catch' the loud section. But if that section is a great deal louder than the others, you risk distorting the one loud section. If the track is extremely dynamic, you may instead opt to automate the master fader to raise the soft sections, plus use a limiter to get a little extra dynamic range reduction.

As I have previously stated, there is no free lunch. Reducing the dynamic range of a track can make it sound louder but can also introduce unwanted artifacts. 

My "mantra" on this subject is that a loud mix starts at the arrangement stage, not at the mastering stage. By choosing sounds and arranging them to sound as loud as possible at the beginning of the project (possibly using light compression on individual tracks), and then mixing with loudness in mind (riding levels, light bus compression on sub-mixes, light mix compression, etc.), you will not need to do much mastering limiting and your final product will not sound as "compressed" or processed.

 
I know this was not posted to me but my weak spot is exactly this , I try to get my mix loud and ballance but try to leave some mixing Volume Room.
I always notice at some point in my production path that one or two track (let's say one that sound loud and one that sound low) that is having huge peak volume , what is the best way to fix this ?
what afffect peak the most on a single track in the mix should I ask ?

[selig]

 
I know this was not posted to me but my weak spot is exactly this , I try to get my mix loud and ballance but try to leave some mixing Volume Room.
I always notice at some point in my production path that one or two track (let's say one that sound loud and one that sound low) that is having huge peak volume , what is the best way to fix this ?
what afffect peak the most on a single track in the mix should I ask ?

I thought I addressed that in my post - the "soft" track with high peak levels needs to have it's dynamic range reduced to sound as loud as the loud track, either by level automation, limiting/compression, or both.

If you understand the relationship between peak and average levels, aka Crest Factor, you can tell which instrument is involved in adding to the peak level. Again, by choosing "loud" sounds, and by using small amounts of dynamic range reduction through out the production process, you can easily achieve a "loud" mix. 

And by "loud" sounds/tracks, I mean a low crest factor. "Raw" instruments such as drums can have a crest factor as high as 20-30 dB, while compressed mixes can be as low as 9-12 dB (lower for certain distortion based genres). 

Also worth noting - compression can reduce OR INCREASE dynamic range/crest factor. Heavy compression with slow attack times can add peak energy and cause clipping, so you can't make a blanket statement that compression reduces dynamic range.

[Exowildebeest]

Using a lot of highpass filtering is the simplest mixing technique that made my mixes louder.

[Dan Topic]

I think I was a bit misunderstood here but the discussion was worth to read. As I said I'm in learning process and this seems to be a neverending journey  
Thanks for all your post here guys. It enlightened some things I haven't thought about yet.
Would you be so kind and analyze my latest track? What your experienced ears discover I should change / improve? It's technically my best mix I could achieve with my knowledge so far. I don't have many REs beside the stock ones. Considering mixing I have only Titan 410x precision maximizer, Selig leveler and Quadelectra stereo splitter. I use no effect in Master section. I always export wav file 96khz / 24bit. Then I rise level of the track in T-racks using my own setup (Quad comp and Soft clipper). After that I use Izotope Ozone 6 for final mastering, again using my own setup with a T-racks CS Buss compressor plugged in which I found best to warm, soften and glue the sound slightly. When finished I resize the file to 44,1khz / 12 bit using dithering. Here's the result:
https://soundcloud.com/dantopic/searchi ... -real-love
I will appreciate your feedback really. Thank you in advance.

Dan Topic

[Gaja]

12 bit? I'm sure you meant 16, no?

[submonsterz]

I think I was a bit misunderstood here but the discussion was worth to read. As I said I'm in learning process and this seems to be a neverending journey  
Thanks for all your post here guys. It enlightened some things I haven't thought about yet.
Would you be so kind and analyze my latest track? What your experienced ears discover I should change / improve? It's technically my best mix I could achieve with my knowledge so far. I don't have many REs beside the stock ones. Considering mixing I have only Titan 410x precision maximizer, Selig leveler and Quadelectra stereo splitter. I use no effect in Master section. I always export wav file 96khz / 24bit. Then I rise level of the track in T-racks using my own setup (Quad comp and Soft clipper). After that I use Izotope Ozone 6 for final mastering, again using my own setup with a T-racks CS Buss compressor plugged in which I found best to warm, soften and glue the sound slightly. When finished I resize the file to 44,1khz / 12 bit using dithering. Here's the result:
https://soundcloud.com/dantopic/searchi ... -real-love
I will appreciate your feedback really. Thank you in advance.

Dan Topic

hmm and you said its best to pan not limit that's a hell of a process chain you have going on after your mix stage there including lots of compression and limiting .

[Dan Topic]

Yes,it is. But after I export whole song. Not when mixing. I can never get that good sound just by using Reason. Perhaps there's a way but it's much more simple to use extra software. I know there are professional mastering effect for Reason but their price is many times bigger than Reason itself. Ozone standalone application is much cheaper and easier to use. 

Anyway to stage all sounds I use panning and EQing and it works quite well for me.

[Dan Topic]

And even without using after software I get sound without clipping, it's just not that dynamic and not that loud. But it's pretty close.

[CharlyCharlzz]

 
I know this was not posted to me but my weak spot is exactly this , I try to get my mix loud and ballance but try to leave some mixing Volume Room.
I always notice at some point in my production path that one or two track (let's say one that sound loud and one that sound low) that is having huge peak volume , what is the best way to fix this ?
what afffect peak the most on a single track in the mix should I ask ?

I thought I addressed that in my post - the "soft" track with high peak levels needs to have it's dynamic range reduced to sound as loud as the loud track, either by level automation, limiting/compression, or both.

If you understand the relationship between peak and average levels, aka Crest Factor, you can tell which instrument is involved in adding to the peak level. Again, by choosing "loud" sounds, and by using small amounts of dynamic range reduction through out the production process, you can easily achieve a "loud" mix. 

And by "loud" sounds/tracks, I mean a low crest factor. "Raw" instruments such as drums can have a crest factor as high as 20-30 dB, while compressed mixes can be as low as 9-12 dB (lower for certain distortion based genres). 

Also worth noting - compression can reduce OR INCREASE dynamic range/crest factor. Heavy compression with slow attack times can add peak energy and cause clipping, so you can't make a blanket statement that compression reduces dynamic range.

 
well thanks to put it up again for me mr Selig , I am in the same boat that is DanTopic but it's getting better year by year !
I use a tone of Lowpass , highpass , EQ etc.. but this is what I needed to anderstand to progress .
I think this thread is one of the best I readed so fare since the Puf !

[Dan Topic]

12 bit? I'm sure you meant 16, no?

Yes, 16, of course. My mistake

[Marco Raaphorst]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

[CharlyCharlzz]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

but can every track sound snappy if they all loud ?
 
I whant loud but I always need to choose what will be loud and it's doing my head in ?!!?
 
how can I be all loud ?!?! I really need to know

[Marco Raaphorst]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

but can every track sound snappy if they all loud ?
 
I whant loud but I always need to choose what will be loud and it's doing my head in ?!!?
 
how can I be all loud ?!?! I really need to know

well, a lot of people put the maximizer over the stereo buss. so making the track as a whole to be as loud as possible.

I never understood that from mastering. still don't know. sure, small eq corrections and some compression to get tracks to sound alike, but applying mastering effects is rather limiting. I always go back to the mix to change things, I never truly master things using the buss.

imo it's great to have contrast in your mix. that's key for me. so maximizing a channel would be cool if you have a super dynamics channel next too it. dynamics, contrast, definition. that's all key imo.

[hydlide]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

That sounds quite interesting as a technique. Normally I would only use a maximizer on the master just because it is meant as master unit (at least theoretically that is). Now I just have to google around about the pros/cons behind this technique.

[submonsterz]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

That sounds quite interesting as a technique. Normally I would only use a maximizer on the master just because it is meant as master unit (at least theoretically that is). Now I just have to google around about the pros/cons behind this technique.

I have used this many times, driving limiters in the channel inserts hard into a single bus at end you loose nearly all dynamics but you do get loud . and very nice distortions too when needed its my style lol.

[CharlyCharlzz]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

but can every track sound snappy if they all loud ?
 
I whant loud but I always need to choose what will be loud and it's doing my head in ?!!?
 
how can I be all loud ?!?! I really need to know

well, a lot of people put the maximizer over the stereo buss. so making the track as a whole to be as loud as possible.

I never understood that from mastering. still don't know. sure, small eq corrections and some compression to get tracks to sound alike, but applying mastering effects is rather limiting. I always go back to the mix to change things, I never truly master things using the buss.

imo it's great to have contrast in your mix. that's key for me. so maximizing a channel would be cool if you have a super dynamics channel next too it. dynamics, contrast, definition. that's all key imo.

that is also the way I see it so fare but it is also the hardest way to mix IMO .
a great mix these days sound all loud but bounce in terms of dynamics , if you don't use all the tech's to make it sound like this then you better know what you doing because it'sso lame to lissen to a perfect track with claps that vanish from time to time etc...

[selig]

some modern producers like Shrillex put maximizers on channels instead of the master buss. to make every channel sound as loud as possible. it's a super intense ADHD kind of sound.

That sounds quite interesting as a technique. Normally I would only use a maximizer on the master just because it is meant as master unit (at least theoretically that is). Now I just have to google around about the pros/cons behind this technique.

Then think instead of simply using a compressor with a high ratio and fast attack, which is essentially a limiter! The key, as always, is to use it only when needed and to understand any potential pitfalls of this approach so you can avoid overdoing it. 

[chrischrischris]

Selig did a great tutorial on the MClass Maximiser that might be around somewhere? From what I remember if you have the 4ms on and fast attack you should be safe (certainly if soft-clip is above zero). It might be in your favour if I'm wrong here 'cause I reckon someone might just correct me, and say much more to your favour

Am I correct in Thinking that the Red 4ms Button adds some Delay to the Chain and so if on a Master Bus Chain while Recording this wouldn't be Smart?

Thanks in advance

Chris

[Higor]

My suggestion is to use lower levels on each track in the future, but for now simply lower the master fader.

It wouldn't be better to select all channels, route them into a new output bus and lower the level in order to reach the master section with more room to process properly?
Is there any difference between be able to keep the level of a track by -3,6 db or use what was mentioned before to achieve the same result? Example: One finishes the mix and notice the overall level of the track is +2db. So he pass all the channels through a new output bus and decrease the level by -3,6db to process in the master section.
Because the master fader is the last thing in the chain - it comes after the limiter. So if the mix sounds bad one would be just decreasing the level of it without any improvement at all.
It's important to be aware that the SSL Master Compressor comes before the master section.

[Nielsen]

The obvious answer is obviously be to keep the volume down, but I would still appreciate some feedback here. I'm inexperienced in the mastering department, but yesterday I wanted to experiment how mastering could spice up one of my productions. Even though my near-field monitors weren't particularly high in volume, one particular maximizer preset somehow affected my ears like a small headshot. I'm not sure what happened since the perceived volume wasn't unlike what I'm used to, but that maximizer preset caused instant fatigue in both of my ears. About 30 hours later my left ear feels normal again, but my right and inferior ear still feels a bit tight and rather muffled. For example, the dynamics of the average kick drum currently feels like it's mostly being fed into my good ear whereas the "wounded" ear only seems to perceive a fraction. What on earth did that maximizer preset do to cause so much harm without feeling overly unpleasant during the brief duration?

While the temporary tinnitus has faded, the bad ear still feels reminiscent of having endured some full-lenght concert. Fingers crossed it will recover within the week.

[RandomSkratch]

More or less skimmed the thread but didn't see anything mentioned about properly calibrated monitors for doing your mixing/mastering. For me at least, if the tracks don't sound loud enough and the meters are lighting up like a Christmas tree, it's because my monitors or headphones aren't loud enough.

Also Flower Audio Loudness Meter (https://shop.propellerheads.se/rack-ext ... ess-meter/) has been a super useful tool for mixing. (A great alternative is Vengenace Sound - SCOPE http://www.vengeance-sound.com/freebies.php )

[aeox]

The obvious answer is obviously be to keep the volume down, but I would still appreciate some feedback here. I'm inexperienced in the mastering department, but yesterday I wanted to experiment how mastering could spice up one of my productions. Even though my near-field monitors weren't particularly high in volume, one particular maximizer preset somehow affected my ears like a small headshot. I'm not sure what happened since the perceived volume wasn't unlike what I'm used to, but that maximizer preset caused instant fatigue in both of my ears. About 30 hours later my left ear feels normal again, but my right and inferior ear still feels a bit tight and rather muffled. For example, the dynamics of the average kick drum currently feels like it's mostly being fed into my good ear whereas the "wounded" ear only seems to perceive a fraction. What on earth did that maximizer preset do to cause so much harm without feeling overly unpleasant during the brief duration?

While the temporary tinnitus has faded, the bad ear still feels reminiscent of having endured some full-lenght concert. Fingers crossed it will recover within the week.

The production should be solid without any mastering needed. Most of time for me it's just a maxmizer increasing the gain and preventing any peaks from clipping. Anything else is just icing on the cake!

[Nielsen]

The obvious answer is obviously be to keep the volume down, but I would still appreciate some feedback here. I'm inexperienced in the mastering department, but yesterday I wanted to experiment how mastering could spice up one of my productions. Even though my near-field monitors weren't particularly high in volume, one particular maximizer preset somehow affected my ears like a small headshot. I'm not sure what happened since the perceived volume wasn't unlike what I'm used to, but that maximizer preset caused instant fatigue in both of my ears. About 30 hours later my left ear feels normal again, but my right and inferior ear still feels a bit tight and rather muffled. For example, the dynamics of the average kick drum currently feels like it's mostly being fed into my good ear whereas the "wounded" ear only seems to perceive a fraction. What on earth did that maximizer preset do to cause so much harm without feeling overly unpleasant during the brief duration?

While the temporary tinnitus has faded, the bad ear still feels reminiscent of having endured some full-lenght concert. Fingers crossed it will recover within the week.

The production should be solid without any mastering needed. Most of time for me it's just a maxmizer increasing the gain and preventing any peaks from clipping. Anything else is just icing on the cake!

True, and I didn't try to suggest otherwise. However, I believe there is a purpose for additional equalization at the mastering stage.