Reason 8 With Izotope Ozone 7 Advanced Stand Alone Or Pro Tools?

[KevTav]

Hello,

I have been a Reason user for 2 years now. I LOVE it as a DAW, it really is easy, intuitive, fast, and is more 'creative' than other DAWS...IMO.

The problem is, it lacks a few things that no matter how I try, i can't get past.

1) It's has no real dedicated stock multi-band compressor, that isn't some COMBINATOR thrown together with the usual M-Class Compressor and some other stock rig. A good solid Multi-Band Comp can assist in so much on polishing a mix. I cannot BELIEVE that after all this time, one does not exist, or is not included.

2) Mastering is okay, but lacks in metering and visual cues. Mastering is about ears, but visuals help. Reason's dependability on the M-Class has gotten old and tiring. It's "Mastering Rig 2" is a little hefty on price, while it really features no fresh, new tools. Sure it can help beef up some songs but it's a mish mash of everything in so many directions.

3) I'm getting really tired of the inability for 3rd Party VST. Reason makes great instruments, REs, etc. But there are so many 3rd Party plug ins like Waves, Izotope...that I would LOVE to be able to run in Reason.

So I have decided to rethink my setup. I've been learning Pro Tools and it while it seems a little more cluttered than Reason, the learning curve seems worth it. I am debating whether to use THAT for mixing, creating, and MASTERING. Because it's stock Mastering seems to outdo Reasons thrown together 'rigs'.

Then there is Izotope. I did a demo of their "Ozone 7 Advanced" and holy Christ. It literally can change a song in minutes. For me it's pretty much a must have

But then there's the money. $599 for PT, or the $599 for the Izotope.

But with PT I can use Izotope as plug ins on single tracks....VERY nice for mixing and mastering.

With Reason, I can ONLY use Ozone as a stand alone and bounce out to do a final master.

I'm super conflicted, because of the $$$$.

Which would you choose. Pro Tools with it's mastering tools, and ability to use Rewire for Reason....

Or keep Reason and just master in Ozone as a stand alone??......

[boobytrap]

I use Ozone 6 and not only one DAW. i render separate tracks and do mix and master within another DAW. ozone for master channel. you can buy reaper for purpose. most of them use that way ! you can mix in O7 stand alone directly but if you renders tracks separate and mix with master O7, you'll get good results !

[Benedict]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here so please don't feel that this is a personal attack:

Well honestly I sound design, compose, mix and master in Reason so while at times I look outside, ultimately I don't feel the need to go outside based on costs both dollar and workflow. I would far rather understanding how a tool does what it does and replicate that in my own way. I also feel that if the only way I can get that sound is with Tool X then it probably isn't MY sound after all.

The thing that concerns me most is where you say that something can "change a song in minutes". That suggests to me that maybe you are not getting great mixes already; if you are looking to get that sort of change at the Finalizing (mastering) point. Yes it is nice to add a bit of sparkle but if I rely on my Finalize to make my track sound good, I know I am off course from the get go.

Your call entirely but I would really doubt that spending all that money (esp when Ozone is available in Reason along with some Multi-Band Comps - assuming they are really that useful) is going to change things that greatly for you.

[KevTav]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here so please don't feel that this is a personal attack:

Well honestly I sound design, compose, mix and master in Reason so while at times I look outside, ultimately I don't feel the need to go outside based on costs both dollar and workflow. I would far rather understanding how a tool does what it does and replicate that in my own way. I also feel that if the only way I can get that sound is with Tool X then it probably isn't MY sound after all.

The thing that concerns me most is where you say that something can "change a song in minutes". That suggests to me that maybe you are not getting great mixes already; if you are looking to get that sort of change at the Finalizing (mastering) point. Yes it is nice to add a bit of sparkle but if I rely on my Finalize to make my track sound good, I know I am off course from the get go.

Your call entirely but I would really doubt that spending all that money (esp when Ozone is available in Reason along with some Multi-Band Comps - assuming they are really that useful) is going to change things that greatly for you.

I understand what you're saying. Mixed that take dramatic swings are not inherently quality mixes and there's a problem from the get go. I understand that and you're putting too much weight on me saying 'in minutes'.

I am aware of many of the possibilities of Reason. I would say I am 90% fluent in it and can do almost anything I imagine.

As far as Ozone available in Reason. It's only the Maximizer, which is one add on for Ozone 7. It offers none of the other tools.

[KevTav]

I use Ozone 6 and not only one DAW. i render separate tracks and do mix and master within another DAW. ozone for master channel. you can buy reaper for purpose. most of them use that way ! you can mix in O7 stand alone directly but if you renders tracks separate and mix with master O7, you'll get good results !

I hate Reaper, I can't work with the interface, no offense. I understand what you're saying though. Reaper for Mastering purposes, say importing audio files to track out with Ozone as Plug Ins.

[TritoneAddiction]

About the multiband compressor issue, no there aren't any stock multiband compressors, but there are actually 3 multiband compressors in the Propellerhead Shop right now: 4dyne, Multiband Compressor from Red Rock and Splex. There's also DQ which is more like a surgical one band compressor/expander, which is the one I use when I mix.

If you're mostly looking for a way to incorporate Izotope Ozone and some other VSTs I really don't see the reason why you have to buy one of the most expensive DAWs like Pro Tools. But of course if you like PT then maybe it's right despite the price.

In the end, only you know what's right for you, the kind of workflow and the tools you want to use. No one elses opinion really matters when it comes to music making. That's become more and more obvious to me after reading opinions about REs that some people love and other people find totally useless.
It's not always about the price of the equipment either. My biggest regret is buying the FET Compressor, my most expensive RE. Everyone loves it, but it just doesn't work for me and the music I make. Instead some of my cheaper or even free REs gets used the most: Carve, Audiomatic, Saturation Knob, Uhbik A, FRG-4RE Compressor etc.

[KevTav]

About the multiband compressor issue, no there aren't any stock multiband compressors, but there are actually 3 multiband compressors in the Propellerhead Shop right now: 4dyne, Multiband Compressor from Red Rock and Splex. There's also DQ which is more like a surgical one band compressor/expander, which is the one I use when I mix.

If you're mostly looking for a way to incorporate Izotope Ozone and some other VSTs I really don't see the reason why you have to buy one of the most expensive DAWs like Pro Tools. But of course if you like PT then maybe it's right despite the price.

In the end, only you know what's right for you, the kind of workflow and the tools you want to use. No one elses opinion really matters when it comes to music making. That's become more and more obvious to me after reading opinions about REs that some people love and other people find totally useless.
It's not always about the price of the equipment either. My biggest regret is buying the FET Compressor, my most expensive RE. Everyone loves it, but it just doesn't work for me and the music I make. Instead some of my cheaper or even free REs gets used the most: Carve, Audiomatic, Saturation Knob, Uhbik A, FRG-4RE Compressor etc.

I use the Audiomatic and the Saturation knob in almost all my mixes at some point.

About using Pro Tools, I am venturing into scoring and post work. And me being a main Reason user, isn't exactly 'impressive' to some music directors I'm talking to. It's been a thorn in my side from a 'resume' standpoint. And trust me, I hate the fact that Pro Tools has a lock on the industry. Reason to me is just a step under and in many ways out does PT.

But that's why I'm asking advice here, the COST. If I had to spend $599 for Ozone's Master 7 bundle, or PT, I would RATHER do the Ozone and continue with my Reason ventures.

At this point I'm considering just buying the Maserting Rig 2 in Reason, just to have additional tools, and learning Pro Tools on the side from the trial DL I have.

It's frustrating because the money is the issue. And even Reason is costing me some bucks with updates and stuff.

[KevTav]

Also , I tried the 4 Dyne when I didn't fully comprehend it's capabilities, and the trial ended before I could really get into it. Wish I had it back.

[boobytrap]

I use Ozone 6 and not only one DAW. i render separate tracks and do mix and master within another DAW. ozone for master channel. you can buy reaper for purpose. most of them use that way ! you can mix in O7 stand alone directly but if you renders tracks separate and mix with master O7, you'll get good results !

I hate Reaper, I can't work with the interface, no offense. I understand what you're saying though. Reaper for Mastering purposes, say importing audio files to track out with Ozone as Plug Ins.

I remember once I hate FL coz I'm struggling with patterns. but I think why so many people use FL and how that workflow is superfast. you don't need to go deep in to reaper. it's really easy and very powerful. and it's 65$ that's why I recommend that to you. anyway if you don't like it you have to go to another Lite version DAW for Mix & Master.

[KevTav]

I use Ozone 6 and not only one DAW. i render separate tracks and do mix and master within another DAW. ozone for master channel. you can buy reaper for purpose. most of them use that way ! you can mix in O7 stand alone directly but if you renders tracks separate and mix with master O7, you'll get good results !

I hate Reaper, I can't work with the interface, no offense. I understand what you're saying though. Reaper for Mastering purposes, say importing audio files to track out with Ozone as Plug Ins.

I remember once I hate FL coz I'm struggling with patterns. but I think why so many people use FL and how that workflow is superfast. you don't need to go deep in to reaper. it's really easy and very powerful. and it's 65$ that's why I recommend that to you. anyway if you don't like it you have to go to another Lite version DAW for Mix & Master.

I actually like FL Studio. Super fast, intuitive and great workflow. I might think about that. I have to check prices.

I'm also taking a relook at the Reason Mix & Master Rig 2. It's tempting.

Which is begging the question for me, can Reason be the ENTIRE mixing and mastering DAW?

[Majestik Monkey]

You will be hard pushed to beat this especially for the PRICE TAG & THE SOUND QUALITY !!!!!

[tibah]

I can see where you're coming from or why you have issues with some features missing from Reason.

I think both options are pretty valuable. Having another DAW can work for some people and offer features or simply another way of working, that ultimately, could also lead to another, creative mindset, which is helpful in some cases. Getting Ozone stand-alone will let you still focus on Reason, as it is, but still give you a powerful mastering application.

You may consider Studio One as well, as it will give you the benefit of a good 2nd DAW, with a dedicated mastering feature and the ability to use VST plug-ins once in a while. I used it for about 2 years and the work-flow is superb for Reason users, as some of the default shortcuts are the same and it can kinda "suck you into the zone" as Reason. I personally just disliked its automation (handling wise, not feature wise).

can Reason be the ENTIRE mixing and mastering DAW?

That depends on several things. If you do client work, you may notice that there is somewhat of a "demand" for using PT. Other times, you may need to be able to comp edit multiple takes at once e.g. for drums, one feature Reason doesn't have. I personally use it for everything, but I also just mix my own music or maybe help a friend with his project, mixing wise, so I have very different needs to the ones you or someone that actually has to make a living from this have.

But tools and features aside, you have to decide for yourself.

[scifunk]

With a bit of thought you could build a multiband combinator with all manner of available compressors EQs and limiters and visual aids.

[KevTav]

That depends on several things. If you do client work, you may notice that there is somewhat of a "demand" for using PT. Other times, you may need to be able to comp edit multiple takes at once e.g. for drums, one feature Reason doesn't have. I personally use it for everything, but I also just mix my own music or maybe help a friend with his project, mixing wise, so I have very different needs to the ones you or someone that actually has to make a living from this have.

But tools and features aside, you have to decide for yourself.

I got invited to be part of a film score guild. All those guys are mainly Pro Tool heads, and have certs. I am a Reason head, and have.....Reason.

The thing is, I was pondering getting clients for mastering if I really got Izotope down. I figured Izotope and PT together would make me unstopable if I dedicate myself to both....LMAO Like a super villain.

I dunno, so many choices. Izotope also gives you a Plug In called "Insight" which meters for LOUDNESS standards and tells you exactly where your mixes are at. That's something in the scoring world that is becoming more and more of a MUST before submissions.

[KevTav]

You will be hard pushed to beat this especially for the PRICE TAG & THE SOUND QUALITY !!!!!

Yeah, I heard of it. Looks cool. I'd like to see where it goes.

[KevTav]

With a bit of thought you could build a multiband combinator with all manner of available compressors EQs and limiters and visual aids.

I already know how to build a COMBI for that, but the visual aid part?

[KevTav]

FL Studio Producer Edition, with maybe some entry level version of Isotope?

Or even FL Studio Fruity Edition? $99 bucks

I just remembered, FL Studio can Rewire Reason...hmmm

[decibel]

not into logic ? (dont own a mac ?)

[boobytrap]

FL Studio Producer Edition, with maybe some entry level version of Isotope?

Or even FL Studio Fruity Edition? $99 bucks

I just remembered, FL Studio can Rewire Reason...hmmm

Fruity edition doesn't support with audio edit. even producer edition not too much audio editing capable. I use Producer edition most of time. witch I bought it from sale 139$. now it's comes with free sytrus @ Maximus worth 360$

[KevTav]

not into logic ? (dont own a mac ?)

Would get logic, but my Mac is my laptop, and it sucks. Can't afford a new MAC right now. If I could I would be running Logic for everything and wouldn't even be here or talk of anything else.

[boobytrap]

you can do mix and master in reason. but it's not even close to Ozone 7 quality

[KevTav]

you can do mix and master in reason. but it's not even close to Ozone 7 quality

I was thinking doing performance and mix in Reason.

Use Izotope for Mastering, but my dedicated DAW for mastering has come down to FL Studio, or some cheap version of PT. Maybe 10.

That's where I'm heading. I just need a DAW different than Reason to get the Ozone 7 in as Plug Ins.

[Gulale]

You will be hard pushed to beat this especially for the PRICE TAG & THE SOUND QUALITY !!!!!

Yeah, I heard of it. Looks cool. I'd like to see where it goes.

The original GUI doesn't look good too much whiteness I need my eyes without them I'm nothing. I loved my own version and you can make your own version too. Or you can download from Harrison forum. It sound great it doesn't look good unless you customise it based on your test. Too much whiteness going on.

[EdGrip]

I would suggest that IF you're going to have to do the dirty Pro Tools thing sooner or later for political reasons, you might as well get it out the way. It can sit there on your computer being a necessary evil, and you can get fluent in it, certified etc. That's a lot of money though - is that the cheapest price point of PT that's useful?

I'm also going through the process of choosing a 2nd DAW to offer me things (beyond VSTs) to complement and fill gaps for Reason. I currently use Studio One Prime for whizzing about chopping up WAVs because it's free and better than Reason for that kind of thing.
I totally understand the "invest more in Reason" vs "invest elsewhere" dilemma. My current theory is it's probably best to invest in Reason for the creative things it's good at, and invest in something else for mastering, or final mixing and mastering type work. It means you have a second DAW for added versatility, options, different workflow for different jobs, VSTs, etc - and also a tool more built with that purpose in mind. That's not to denigrate Reason's lovely mixer and patch cables - just that there may be DAWs better suited to that end of the process.

In short, I'd go for PT. Between Reason and PT you will have enough tools to sound good, and you may find you don't need Ozone so much - or at least not all of it.

(I'd also like to get something Ableton-y, but I'm in no hurry and watching to see what Bitwig does.)

[EdGrip]

I'd add that PT, which seems focused on recording and working with real audio/bands/singers/instrumentalists, strikes me as a strange standard for scoring. You'd think it would be Cubase or something.

I would hate the injustice of having a DAW foisted on me as a "standard" when there are other things I would prefer to use instead, and I would resist, but I am an awful business person so you should not do that.