Reason 9 For Sale

[sulin00]

It seems like Burnout Syndrome... Find something that makes you fell you are a valuable being in the world. Exercise to burn majority of physical energy everyday.

[stratatonic]

Just touching on the cyclical angle again. Jeff Beck - a pretty damn fine guitar player and artist, would go months - 1/2 year without touching the guitar. He'd work on his cars and anything else non-music related. Always came back and never missed a beat technically or creatively...

[orthodox]

Just touching on the cyclical angle again. Jeff Beck - a pretty damn fine guitar player and artist, would go months - 1/2 year without touching the guitar. He'd work on his cars and anything else non-music related. Always came back and never missed a beat technically or creatively...

Can't wait for him to release something new. Last thing I saw was the live video of him with ZZ Top a year ago.

[selig]

Thanks guys for your support, it helps me to understood what is going on.
I have some more things that I want to shard with you.
Remeber in 90s how it was, how hard was to program hardware sequencers, or program TB 303, or sample some stuff into sampler and than tweak it, how much hardware costs and how much skils you haveto have to handle all that stuff. And at that time we have really awaysome masterpices of electronic music, real icons. People created real stuff, Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Juno Reactor, Astral Projection and many, many others...
But what we have now? How much skills you have to have to produce electronic music now? I think even 13 years old kid can make electronic music now, just a couple of tutors etc... How mych money you have to spend on you equipment? Sometimes nothing...
How much true electronic gurus we have now? I do not know any new names that produce real stuff not that copy/past primitive music.
When electronic music just appears there was no genres in current sence and so much cool ideas was generated, so original. Now there is music genres and if you want to be smart ass you have to follow them, but they are so primitive and looks like one big song with little variations, some times you can not distinguish one track from another...
So much stuff that is make me finish my music career. This avatar I made 11 years ago and even at that time thing was much more better

hey, if it's any consolation to you, this is history repeating itself. Back in the 90s I could easily say "remember in the 70s when we had true rock music gurus"? Remember how hard it was to practice and practice until you could actually play those crazy parts, how much studio gear cost and how much skills you had to have to handle all that stuff? At that time we had really awesome masterpieces of music, real icons. People created real stuff, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Yes (RIP Chris Squire btw), Queen, and many more. But what have we now? How much skill do you have to have to produce music now - even 13 year old kids can make music now, just a couple of drum machines and a sequencer, and the gear is SO CHEAP!

This is not to disparage your comments in any way, just to say that for each generation there is an older generation that is nostalgic over the "good old days". You could even go back to the 70s and have folks talking about the golden age of rock and roll in the 50s, saying things like "we didn't have multitrack to overdub, we got it right the first time as a group, etc." And before that folks could say "back in the 30s you had to PLAY it LIVE for an audience, not splice it together in the studio, etc."

I felt the same way when my icons were no longer producing music - but I HAVE to remember that at that time YOUR icons were producing music. And so I suggest that you may want to consider that RIGHT NOW, someone's icons are ALSO producing great music - it's just not "great" to YOU. It's all relative - if you want to read about why the music of our youth will always hold a special place in our hearts (our brains, really), there are books such as "This is Your Brain on Music" that go a long way to explaining this phenomenon. Once you see it from that angle, you may even begin to appreciate the music of today - I KNOW it helped me not be "that old guy" who laments about "kids today".

Hay, I got your point of view, but it is just a trick to keep positive state of mind I do not use this tricks, because following your way of thinking I have to start to love all that shit that happens now
Look at things objectively and if you will find forces to accept all that shit and continue to follow your way than it is cool. I can not find that forces for now.

All you're doing is trading one trick (which you have no control over) for another (one where YOU are in control). If you prefer the first trick, then by all means stick with it - I just wanted to contribute an optional point of view for your consideration.

Actually you've got it backwards - you don't accept today's music first, you take control of your creative options first! Then, if all goes well, you start loving music again. And if LATER, you gain an appreciation for more music genres rather than a limited appreciation, how is that a bad thing? Seems like you're getting stuck on two views: one, that you're not in control of your creativity (the GEAR does that for you), and two, that your view on music can't change.

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

[samardac]

Seems like you're getting stuck on two views: one, that you're not in control of your creativity (the GEAR does that for you), and two, that your view on music can't change.

1. Yes I am not in control of my creativity in all sences. And yes gear play so much role in my creativity process, starting from UI and end with sound. If I do not like like synth looks like I will not use it at all. I will rather use synth that looks cool even if it sound is not superb.

2. Yep, my view on music will not change because I have good taste, and can objectivly analize what is original, what is new and fresh, what is complex and unicue and what was stollen, repeated or reused or just primitive and bad. If tomorow all styles become original, unicueq and fresh I will say - Yes I love what is goinig on!!! But for now I do not want lie to my self just to stay in good mood.

[selig]

Seems like you're getting stuck on two views: one, that you're not in control of your creativity (the GEAR does that for you), and two, that your view on music can't change.

1. Yes I am not in control of my creativity in all sences. And yes gear play so much role in my creativity process, starting from UI and end with sound. If I do not like like synth looks like I will not use it at all. I will rather use synth that looks cool even if it sound is not superb.

2. Yep, my view on music will not change because I have good taste, and can objectivly analize what is original, what is new and fresh, what is complex and unicue and what was stollen, repeated or reused or just primitive and bad. If tomorow all styles become original, unicueq and fresh I will say - Yes I love what is goinig on!!! But for now I do not want lie to my self just to stay in good mood.

I would never encourage you to do so! Good taste is an illusion. If you grow your taste will change, so why not grow? Unless you are one of those who believe there is absolute good and bad music, in which case there's probably little hope for you. ;(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jonheal]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

[EdGrip]

Ahhh, the old "it's too easy for just anyone to do now" power-sulk that saw loads of photographers selling off all their kit when DSLRs got cheap...

[orthodox]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

I would like to add that good and bad in music are not entirely subjective. I believe there is some common ground, surely not an absolute scale, but something that we all may sense in a similar way.

I don't claim to be the one who feels it right, and the times and people have always been the same, but IMO, music has been degrading over the recent years.
Maybe it's our fault and we all should just try harder?

[EdGrip]

Smash all the looms! Sell all the Reason 9s!

[jonheal]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

I would like to add that good and bad in music are not entirely subjective. I believe there is some common ground, surely not an absolute scale, but something that we all may sense in a similar way.

I don't claim to be the one who feels it right, and the times and people have always been the same, but IMO, music has been degrading over the recent years.
Maybe it's our fault and we all should just try harder?

There may be a boatload of crap out there these days, but nothing beats the early 70s for mind-dissolving pop drivel.

Afternoon Delight
Wildfire
Listen to What the Man Said*

It's amazing the world didn't collapse into a black hole!

* Sorry, Paul; I know you're in the Pantheon, but that song always has, and always will, suck big, green donkey dongs.

[selig]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

True, but it CAN be done with practice - it's better to try IMO that to feel like you're completely out of control.

[selig]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

I would like to add that good and bad in music are not entirely subjective. I believe there is some common ground, surely not an absolute scale, but something that we all may sense in a similar way.

I don't claim to be the one who feels it right, and the times and people have always been the same, but IMO, music has been degrading over the recent years.
Maybe it's our fault and we all should just try harder?

Yes and my point is that folks have been saying "music has been degrading over the years" for as long as there has been music. Once you acknowledge the history of such statements you begin to see things differently. At least I did, because EVERYONE thinks this is a recent thing (music degrading). Could be it's not true at all, because while it was being said in the 70s for my generation, that would indicate that the music of the 90s was already so far degraded that it's not really "music" any longer. But there are folks, the OP included, that feel the music of the 90s was the "pinnacle" of quality.

That's why it's important to understand how our brain works, and why there is always going to be music that WE feel is the "best", and the older we get the more we feel "music has been degrading over the recent years". Again, you are hardly the first generation to make that claim - it's been happening forever!!!

[selig]

Up to you whether you want to feel good about music, or feel bad. I choose to feel good, you can choose whatever you like! Thanks for at least listening to your options as I see them.

In this poor chap's defense, it's not always that simple, Selig. Some have more difficulty regulating their emotional response to things than others.

I would like to add that good and bad in music are not entirely subjective. I believe there is some common ground, surely not an absolute scale, but something that we all may sense in a similar way.

I don't claim to be the one who feels it right, and the times and people have always been the same, but IMO, music has been degrading over the recent years.
Maybe it's our fault and we all should just try harder?

There may be a boatload of crap out there these days, but nothing beats the early 70s for mind-dissolving pop drivel.

Afternoon Delight
Wildfire
Listen to What the Man Said*

It's amazing the world didn't collapse into a black hole!

* Sorry, Paul; I know you're in the Pantheon, but that song always has, and always will, suck big, green donkey dongs.

And yet, if that was the song playing during your first kiss, you'll thing totally differently about it!

[PurpleMonkeyDishes]

A great way around what you are experiencing is to set yourself limitations

Get hardware out and jam, limit yourself , go old school, soon you start to find yourself.

When in Reason don't use any presets as a challenge .. Things like this will re-stimulate your love for music.

[Jagwah]

Great read everyone.

Hay guys, looks like some serious discussion is here
The thing is that I do not have inspiration to make music anymore, 10 years ago it was cool for me, now it looks like rutine, absolute total freedom you are free to make (repeat/emitate) whatever you can imagine no limitation at all, it's killing me, because this freedom kills creativity.
You watch video tutorials on youtube, you buy synths that you want, download loops, price is very low and then start to repeat any stuff you can imagine. And what you do? In 90% you repeat and emitate... All styles become very primitive like copy/past.
I love reason when it was 2.5 it was so inspired, 2 synths that you know as your five fingers, slow PC, no tutorials and you could be creative trying to create some cool stuff in this limitations. But what is now? Tons of stuff and no creativity at all, why you need it when everything is ready for you, even chords
No limits no creativity... you spend your time trying diffrent plugins and pressets without digging deep into it instead of creating something new and original...
So now I open any DAW and have no Idea what to do, no excitement like it was 10 year sago, when creating any new sound and studio quality was a real chalenge. Now it costs nothing When you can do anything you do nothing... So I am empty.

That is why I am selling all my stuff

I have heard before that this freedom to create whatever you can think of stifles creativity, and I believe it to be false. It's similar to how right now you can do pretty much anything you can think of, you can go out and do a billion different things - rob a bank, do a handstand, whistle, stand in the road and hold up traffic until the police come... anything. This doesn't mean you sit on a chair at home paralysed with the idea of this freedom, you pick one and roll with it, right? Trust me, compared to DAW users 100 years from now we are definitely limited, we don't even have any sine wave transmodal combustioners, or even a basic mind to midi converter.

If you're only using loops and presets then yeah, you aren't using much creativity. If you are honestly passionate you would be more hardcore than that.

As for styles being like copy / paste, the backbone of these styles is a beat that lets people dance, and some sort of pattern that allows us to (for instance) attend a psy trance festival knowing what to expect compared to getting there and having ugh... only hip hop playing all day. We have the backbone as only the fundamental, if you want to stand out you have to be very creative not only with what you add to it, but with that backbone as well.

Take a well earned break, give yourself a few months, hang on to Reason in the meantime if you can. It's possible you will feel a burning desire to get back to it and will do so with zest and joy. Good luck!

[electrochoc (PRX-A)]

2. Yep, my view on music will not change because I have good taste, and can objectivly analize what is original, what is new and fresh, what is complex and unicue and what was stollen, repeated or reused or just primitive and bad.

I have to say that your interventions make me believe the exact opposite about your taste! And I'm not saying this to be mean or harsh, but to make you realize that you might have a very narrow view of what originality is, and a very tight relation to music. Here are my hints, from what you said up to now.

First, you cite as reference artists like Juno Reactor (1993) or early Prodigy (1994). From a music critic and historical point of view, those artists and their albums had their place, were pretty good for their time, but, overall, they are rather minor... Prodigy had a little more success later (in 1997), but overall, their sound didn't aged very well... Second, what I found strange is that you mention those artists in particular. Sure, they brought something to the electronic music scene. But they are only a little part a of the history of electronic music of the 90s, and not even the most important part of it. Why haven't you mentionned Orbital, or FSOL, or The Orb, or Goldie, or even Aphex Twin, today considered as the icon of electronic music of those years (his 1994 album is amazing, but was maybe more underground at the time), or DJ Shadow, widely considered as revolutionary (although I'm not really a fan myself)?

That makes me think that you might have discovered music (or electronic music) around 1993 or 1994 with those artists. If it's the case, may I suggest that it is maybe not that those artists were more original than others, but that they are the ones who had the biggest impact on you, personally, when you were first stunned by an artist? The feeling you may have had by listening to them for the first time is something unique: you'll never find that again! And this is probably that primal "Wow!" that makes people honestly believer that the best music was the music made when they were in their twenties! But it's not related to intrinsec quality from the music itself: it's just that, subjectively, this music has the biggest impact on you. It's normal, but it's important to relativize, thanks to that. If I had to follow this path, I'd say Nirvana is the greatest band of the last 10,000 years! But, as I said, I am a kind of mistake of nature... My own "Wow!" last since 25 years, and makes me amazed by what is going on in music right now!

But let's say I'm wrong and that you didn't discover your love of music with Juno Reactor or Prodigy. I tried to listen to them a little, and, I must say, those albums are pretty well produced. A little soul-less and not very original in my opinion, but, still, they were very well produced. The sound of Juno Reactor's first album is surprisingly modern I must say. But maybe is that what you like. I'm really tempted to think that this specific quality, production, talent at using studio gear, might be what you're looking for:

I know It is absolutley different genres but it is not hard to notice that production was way much more original, there was more music and fresh ideas they still sounds fresh. But that tracks that you share looks like kids playing with software comapring to real gurus.

You used the word "production", something that, from a strictly artistic point of view, is not really important (think Sex Pistols, or, the worst or the worse, Daniel Johnston!). But if I apply your quote to an objective appreciation of the quality of the production, that fits better! And if I think of the "guru" you mentionned as a guru producer, that makes also more sense. I had an other hint for this, about your taste:

I have good taste, and can objectivly analize what is original, what is new and fresh, what is complex and unicue and what was stollen, repeated or reused or just primitive and bad.

Complexity is, again, not something relevant from an artistic point of view: simple stuff made with simple gear with a very average understanding of how that gear works can have a far greater artistic impact than anything more complex. Again, think: Sex Pistols, Nirvana, early Beatles... Think of the way The Knife had an impact on today's electronic music, although their music is very simple and had a very 80's vibe in it (mainly their early stuff)...

Note that you have the right to appreciate the quality of a production above anything else. And you have the right to think that the over-the-top quality of an artist or producer is how he can make miracles out of hard-to-master gear. But you should reconsider it more specifically as your own point of view and what you are specifically looking for. And recognize that your point of view has nothing to do with things like artistic originality (Juno Reactor? Come on!). And recognize also that your point of entry into music (in your case, it seems to be 1993) is no source of objective evaluation of artistic quality!

Besides, one last word... I'm tempted to think you're pretty young, because people of my age who were impressed with production were more fans of industrial music... Front 242, Front Line Assembly, Skinny Puppy... Honestly, when I discovered Front 242, I felt I've found of which band Prodigy can be considered a copycat! And not really a good one!

[samardac]

electrochoc (PRX-A),
I just mentioned Juno and Prodigy because it was first what I get in mind, I can continue this list and it will go much more futher including that bands that you mentioned...
Lets be honest current genres of electronic music is total crap on 90%, absolutley the same sounds and melodies. Every month I spend some time to find something new and interesting, I do not loose hope to find something good, I am listined to Psy a lot of times but it is absolutley copy past primitive crap and I stop trying to explore it, no reason... Not so long ago I discovered Neo Goa and was so excited but after I listened it fore some time I understood it is the same crap as Psy no creativity at all, like one person made all tracks simple copy/past. Also I discovered New Retro Wave and I really loved it because I am big fun of 80s sond, but soon I understood that this genre have the same problem as others, thousands kids started to make New Retro Wave and it become real crap... Dubstep, Trap, Mininal, Trans, EDM no comments at all...
So everytime I try to find something new and fresh I have no luck, and I back to listen to stuf that I like and it is happened that that stuff was produced before 2000s.
Though I am fun of electronic music I can mention a lot of bands from 70, 80, 90 that had influenced on me, but I can not mention any band from 2000s.
Oh sorry, one person I can mention here from 2000s it is Mitch Murder his sound I consider super quality reincornation of 80s sonds! This guy is real Talent and know what he does.

[stratatonic]

Just touching on the cyclical angle again. Jeff Beck - a pretty damn fine guitar player and artist, would go months - 1/2 year without touching the guitar. He'd work on his cars and anything else non-music related. Always came back and never missed a beat technically or creatively...

Can't wait for him to release something new. Last thing I saw was the live video of him with ZZ Top a year ago.

Well, you're a couple of weeks away from his first release in six years...
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... r-20160519

[stratatonic]

If you're only using loops and presets then yeah, you aren't using much creativity.

Oh, baloney.

[jfrichards]

I try to remind musicians, especially the despondent ones, that artistic people in general are part of social trends, and are engaged in distinct social activity. To separate musical activity from social activity is absolutely impossible, as much as musicians will ascribe their music to something inside them. Music is a reflection of society. It can be celebratory, as with a lot of dance music, even if it's just celebrating the end of the work week. It can be introspective, when the world needs a double take, a moment to re-consider your path in these difficult times. It can be rebellious, a call to rise up. It can be appreciative, of personal relations, of big events, or just the beauty you can see. It can be despondent, sort of having a "good cry". It can be dozens of things, but they are all directly related to life as a whole. Life comes first, art comes second. Jump into life and let the music come out as part of it.

[boobytrap]

If you're only using loops and presets then yeah, you aren't using much creativity.

Oh, baloney.

creativity means not using hundreds of tracks and automation lines for even for a small sound. loops and presets can to make millions of ideas. see renoise demo song call sound design and meta devices. only use one sine wave for entire song. amazing ! presets and proper samples are good enough for make a hit something.

[samardac]

creativity means not using hundreds of tracks and automation lines for even for a small sound. loops and presets can to make millions of ideas. see renoise demo song call sound design and meta devices. only use one sine wave for entire song. amazing ! presets and proper samples are good enough for make a hit something.

Irony about samples:

Daft Punk - Robot Rock

Complitley stolen track, the only thing they did just renamed it. How can we call it? I think we can call it shit...

The Prodigy - Smack My batch Up

How we can call this? I think we can call this genius sampling! Great inspiring example!

So if you have no creativity you can go like Duft Punk, or try to be the guru!

[boobytrap]

I mean you can do creative things with samples by re sampling. Production ready presets.

Losers always whining about there musical background comes up with age 6. You don't wanna be a synth wizard to make a hit. The hit makes you a wizard

[Rene Disco]

electrochoc (PRX-A),
I just mentioned Juno and Prodigy because it was first what I get in mind, I can continue this list and it will go much more futher including that bands that you mentioned...
Lets be honest current genres of electronic music is total crap on 90%, absolutley the same sounds and melodies. Every month I spend some time to find something new and interesting, I do not loose hope to find something good, I am listined to Psy a lot of times but it is absolutley copy past primitive crap and I stop trying to explore it, no reason... Not so long ago I discovered Neo Goa and was so excited but after I listened it fore some time I understood it is the same crap as Psy no creativity at all, like one person made all tracks simple copy/past. Also I discovered New Retro Wave and I really loved it because I am big fun of 80s sond, but soon I understood that this genre have the same problem as others, thousands kids started to make New Retro Wave and it become real crap... Dubstep, Trap, Mininal, Trans, EDM no comments at all...
So everytime I try to find something new and fresh I have no luck, and I back to listen to stuf that I like and it is happened that that stuff was produced before 2000s.
Though I am fun of electronic music I can mention a lot of bands from 70, 80, 90 that had influenced on me, but I can not mention any band from 2000s.
Oh sorry, one person I can mention here from 2000s it is Mitch Murder his sound I consider super quality reincornation of 80s sonds! This guy is real Talent and know what he does.

I know exactly what you mean about using the same sounds and melodies. I too was influenced by the sounds of the 70s and 80s and 90s. To make even a demo back in the 90s was expensive and you had to be really into music to even want to buy equipment. And only you and your friends would be able to hear them unlike today. My Tascam 4 track portastudio cost me $500. I couldn't browse presets, auto-tune, copy/paste tracks and all that so I feel you. Never mind pressing CDs they cost about 30 to 50 bucks. Most studios in LA were $100 bucks an hour to rent. Endless takes, rewinding the reel-to-reel machine took long, manual fader automation, muting ans soloing on the console, sometimes two or three of us would automate during mixdown.

About the melodies... yest it is true what you say about melodies today. You can even hear the same chords being used in Hip Hop/Trap that they use with EDM tracks. However that was also the case in the 90s. They also used the same chords and melodies. Not only that but a lot of records also had the exact rhythm of the lead hook. example: "Understand this groove" by Sound Factory had the same rhythm as "Jump" by The Movement as well as many others. And as for melodies, example: "Everybody is in the place" by Prodigy the melody was used on other records like "Mallorca" by Lewis Lovebump and many others. They still use that today. Just listen to the Morongo Casino commercial. Even Jason Mraz, Maroon 5, etc. It had to sound like that or it wasn't cool remember?

Take "Your love" by Prodigy. So many cool rave records had that fast attack piano rhythm or it wasn't real rave. And the grown ups would ask me, "Why do you like that noise?" And to me those sounds were insane and awesome to me. But to them all they could hear was the thumpin' kicks and the simple staccato synths. I can show you many examples. Some tracks were so primitive like the one with the "oink" pig sound. Or even "Conquistadores Chocolate" by Cholate Tribe. Or how about "Everybody's Free" by Rozala. A lot of records had piano rhythms with alternating low piano notes. I could show you more example but remember that for us all that was new and cool. And others would try say we have no taste or whatever.

I have several piano Vines and Instagram videos on my feed of 90s techno, house, rave tracks if you want to check it out. Yes there are some artists who aren't that creative but there are many others who are. If you listen to Monstercat Tracks there are songs with not so primitive arrangements. And as far as Vaporwave and Retrowave, yes they use samples but the rave scene also sampled a lot but it was cool. Remember "Close your eyes" by Acen? They had those cool rave synths as well as The Beatles "Here comes the sun." The same today. I could write a book on this but hopefully you get where I'm coming from.

I think I will make a Youtube tutorial on how to make 90s tracks. Don't give up man. Music is cool. And today I don't have to pay 20 bucks to go to The Florentine Gardens in Hollywood to hear the latest records. There are so many labels out there making cool tracks if you just listen. Get drunk, smoke a blunt, or whatever but immerse yourself and get "into" the music. I still think Subtractor and Thor synths are cool! And with Reason 9 I think we will be hearing crazy melodies and tracks.