Thor question

[JRIII86]

I found a patch in Thor I am curious about. It involves an oscillator being sent to Filter 1 and then Filter 2. The cutoff frequency of both filters is set to 0, but Rotary knob 1 has been set to modulate Filter 1 Frequency 100%, and Rotary knob 2 has been set to modulate Filter 2 Frequency 100%. Rotary 1 is set to 69 and Rotary 2 is set to 46. I don't really care to modulate the cutoff frequencies, so I thought I'd try just setting them to 69 and 46 respectively in the filters themselves and not using the rotaries at all. However, when I do this I don't get quite the same sound. It seems to me that theoretically it should work, but it doesn't. Can someone tell me why?

[Ahornberg]

can you post the patches?

[swamptooth]

I found a patch in Thor I am curious about. It involves an oscillator being sent to Filter 1 and then Filter 2. The cutoff frequency of both filters is set to 0, but Rotary knob 1 has been set to modulate Filter 1 Frequency 100%, and Rotary knob 2 has been set to modulate Filter 2 Frequency 100%. Rotary 1 is set to 69 and Rotary 2 is set to 46. I don't really care to modulate the cutoff frequencies, so I thought I'd try just setting them to 69 and 46 respectively in the filters themselves and not using the rotaries at all. However, when I do this I don't get quite the same sound. It seems to me that theoretically it should work, but it doesn't. Can someone tell me why?

That's because the rotaries have a range that's from 0-127 per the midi spec.
If you want to set a distinct frequency for the filters then you have to do some math, but you can use a trick to get around this with thor by using the formant filter.
I think what you need is 69/127 and 46/127 as a starting place. This is equal for the formant filter type (i.e. either 69 or 46) but the other filters have a range of 39.4Hz to 21.6kHz and it's not linear so the math is sucky. The trick I would suggest setting up a formant filter in each filter first, then changing the gender values to 69 and 49. Then, change the filter type to the original as the frequency knob will maintain the relative position that was set by the gender knob. That way less math is involved, and it's pretty easy to remember.

[selig]

It's Thor - Thor is "weird"…
All of Thor responds oddly IMO to CV in general. The Rotaries output the full CV range, but the destinations in Thor do not respond directly to the entire range. In comparison, the same Rotary WILL sweep the filter in Subtractor or Maelstrom across it's full range as one would expect.

But even this is not consistent in Thor. The Amp will respond to the full range when controlled by a Rotary, but not linearly (the knob positions won't match). The amp Pan control needs an extra "16" from the mod matrix to match, confusing matters further…and to make matters even more confusing, the amp will be ok with the extra 16 from the mod matrix (it's within a 1/10 of a dB at least) so I'm not really sure about the amp levels!

For the filter to track correctly you will need to "double assign" values in the Mod Matrix. The "magic number" for the second Mod Matrix "Amount (for a 1:1 relationships with the Filter knob and the Rotary) is "67".

[swamptooth]

It's Thor - Thor is "weird"…
All of Thor responds oddly IMO to CV in general. The Rotaries output the full CV range, but the destinations in Thor do not respond directly to the entire range. In comparison, the same Rotary WILL sweep the filter in Subtractor or Maelstrom across it's full range as one would expect.

I noticed this last night as I was double checking my post. I attributed it to one too many pints. This behavior is slightly aggravating.

[JRIII86]

For the filter to track correctly you will need to "double assign" values in the Mod Matrix. The "magic number" for the second Mod Matrix "Amount (for a 1:1 relationships with the Filter knob and the Rotary) is "67".

Thanks for the replies! I tried the Formant Filter trick but it didn't work. Whatever gender knob value I set in the Formant doesn't have any relationship to the cutoff frequency knobs of the other filters.
Selig, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean with "double assigning" values in the Mod Matrix. Can you be a little more specific about the routing you're referring to?

[8cros]

For the filter to track correctly you will need to "double assign" values in the Mod Matrix. The "magic number" for the second Mod Matrix "Amount (for a 1:1 relationships with the Filter knob and the Rotary) is "67".

Thanks for the replies! I tried the Formant Filter trick but it didn't work. Whatever gender knob value I set in the Formant doesn't have any relationship to the cutoff frequency knobs of the other filters.
Selig, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean with "double assigning" values in the Mod Matrix. Can you be a little more specific about the routing you're referring to?

Have you checked the other settings where this is most evident? For example shaper drive is working properly. This is only a filter problem.IMHO And it's really not right.

[Sokpoppet]

Erm.... Why is this a problem? Simple solution is just leave them alone and if you need more knobs to fiddle with stick it in a combi.

[8cros]

Erm.... Why is this a problem? Simple solution is just leave them alone and if you need more knobs to fiddle with stick it in a combi.

You probably do not understand ...
I will explain in another.
When we control the cutoff frequency of filter 1 via Combinator Rotary (programmer), or via knob of the Thor (mod matrix). We do not have the same sound. But there should be the same.

If I'm was not wrong.

[selig]

For the filter to track correctly you will need to "double assign" values in the Mod Matrix. The "magic number" for the second Mod Matrix "Amount (for a 1:1 relationships with the Filter knob and the Rotary) is "67".

Thanks for the replies! I tried the Formant Filter trick but it didn't work. Whatever gender knob value I set in the Formant doesn't have any relationship to the cutoff frequency knobs of the other filters.
Selig, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean with "double assigning" values in the Mod Matrix. Can you be a little more specific about the routing you're referring to?

"Double assign" means to use two mod matrix slots both assigned to the same destination, thus increasing the end effect. So if the Rotary doesn't cover enough range when assigned to Filter Freq, create a second slot (or use the double slots) to basically "add more modulation" to the destination. For the filter, with the first slot set to full (100) and the second set to 67 you get the correct 1:1 relationship of Rotary to Filter Freq knob. Make sense?



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[Sokpoppet]

Erm.... Why is this a problem? Simple solution is just leave them alone and if you need more knobs to fiddle with stick it in a combi.

You probably do not understand ...
I will explain in another.
When we control the cutoff frequency of filter 1 via Combinator Rotary (programmer), or via knob of the Thor (mod matrix). We do not have the same sound. But there should be the same.

If I'm was not wrong.

Sorry, you're right, I don't understand. I thought that you didn't want to modulate the freqs, in which case you could just leave the assigned knobs as they are.

[JRIII86]

"Double assign" means to use two mod matrix slots both assigned to the same destination, thus increasing the end effect. So if the Rotary doesn't cover enough range when assigned to Filter Freq, create a second slot (or use the double slots) to basically "add more modulation" to the destination. For the filter, with the first slot set to full (100) and the second set to 67 you get the correct 1:1 relationship of Rotary to Filter Freq knob. Make sense?

Perfect! It worked. Thanks! I am mystified as to how you figured out such a thing...

[JRIII86]

Sorry, you're right, I don't understand. I thought that you didn't want to modulate the freqs, in which case you could just leave the assigned knobs as they are.

I understand your point. I didn't really include all the details. I wanted to get the same sound without using the rotaries because I was trying to recreate it in another Thor in which I already had a patch set up, and then use a combinator knob to transform the first patch into the second, and the Thor rotaries were already being used for something else. Anyway, I figured it out so 'sall good!

[selig]

"Double assign" means to use two mod matrix slots both assigned to the same destination, thus increasing the end effect. So if the Rotary doesn't cover enough range when assigned to Filter Freq, create a second slot (or use the double slots) to basically "add more modulation" to the destination. For the filter, with the first slot set to full (100) and the second set to 67 you get the correct 1:1 relationship of Rotary to Filter Freq knob. Make sense?

Perfect! It worked. Thanks! I am mystified as to how you figured out such a thing...

It's a technique borrowed from he analog modular synth world, a good case of learning the fundamentals and applying them into the future!