Boost send fx level via parallel channel?

[hollyn]

Hi, long time! (If it counts, I've been lurking.)

I'm wondering about the best way to boost a delay tail that happens only a couple of times in the track.

Maxxing the send level doesn't get it where it needs to be as the tail fades out.

I'd like to avoid resorting to chopping the audio onto additional channels if possible as the fx currently are on an output bus for a group and I'd like to avoid the bloat if there's a cleaner method.

Is it possible to boost a send fx thru a parallel channel or similar?

Thanks!

[selig]

Hi, long time! (If it counts, I've been lurking.)

I'm wondering about the best way to boost a delay tail that happens only a couple of times in the track.

Maxxing the send level doesn't get it where it needs to be as the tail fades out.

I'd like to avoid resorting to chopping the audio onto additional channels if possible as the fx currently are on an output bus for a group and I'd like to avoid the bloat if there's a cleaner method.

Is it possible to boost a send fx thru a parallel channel or similar?

Thanks!

I can think of a couple of ways to do this, and increasing the send isn't one of them since that will increase ALL of the repeats (not just the ones that are too soft).

One is to automate the return (every control in the mixer can be automated). But that may not work. You could also add a compressor on the delay, but that's likely to change the sound of the louder repeats.

What may be the best response is to boost the feedback at that point (automate it) so that the repeats don't get the chance to fade in the first place. You'll have to be careful to do it at exactly the right point in time, so you may have to edit the automation and play with the time and level values before it's like you're wanting.




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[hollyn]

Thanks, Giles.

I should've been more clear. I've not had success getting the amount of volume when automating the send level at 127 on the delays.

Unless by feedback you're referring to something different?

[Zac]

Hi Holly,
you could use the Key utility combi in the factory soundbank, replace the MClass EQ that's inside the combi with Selig's Leveler set it to the right level to bring up the delay on the two parts of the song and then automate the 'key' button to 'on' for those two bits. I.e. The leveller wiill be off for the rest of the song. So insert the combi after your Send device.

FSB>all FX>utility>'sidechain key' or something similar

Here's an example reason file (7.1)

I've left the EQ unconnected in the combi so you can see that the Leveler replaces it. I've put the leveler at 100% wet but you can use it more subtley by reducing that. First 8 bars, Selig leveler not punched in, 2nd 8 bars it is. (see automation lane in Sequencer)

Hope this helps.

[selig]

Thanks, Giles.

I should've been more clear. I've not had success getting the amount of volume when automating the send level at 127 on the delays.

Unless by feedback you're referring to something different?

TOTALLY different! Like I said, automating the SEND is the LAST thing I'd do to get the results you want. I'm not sure if boosting the feedback is what you want, or if automating the RETURN level would be better. But for multiple reasons I'd not increase the SEND for this effect.

Feedback:
Look at The Echo, the DDL-1, etc. They all have a knob called FEEDBACK. This controls the level of the "repeats" or "tail". More feedback, more and louder repeats, longer and louder tail. By increasing the feedback at a certain point, you'll increase the level of the "tail" (which is what you want, right?). Then return the Feedback to it's previous position when you're done. Hope that was more clear. If this doesn't work, try automating the RETURN, which will have a similar effect if there's enough available gain (if the knob goes high enough).

[AttenuationHz]

You could just set the delay to pre-fader lower the fader level to -∞ and put a MCLASS Maximizer next in the AUX chain and automate the level of that. Or if you do want to use parallel channel put the delay insert on the Parallel channel and invert the parallel channel its more or less the same as setting to pre fader the non delay channel will cancel out the initial audio on the parallel channel try that with mono and stereo with the width on the pan. The both channels would have to be at the same level in order for the phase invert to work.

[Stock Music Musician]

You could also set up almost a reverse side chain... on your delay send, add 2 of Selig's Gain REs AFTER the effect. Also add the free Red Rock Audio RE180 Dynamic Driver.

This method involves using CV voltage to automate the volume of the delay channel upward as the volume of the send effect fades downward. Once you get the trick of it, this is super fast and easy. But it may be more useful to just bounce the effect send to an audio file and draw in the volume automation.

***It is really easy to clip INSANELY LOUDLY with this method, so be careful. The first step should hopefully prevent that, but turn down your monitors til you get things dialed in****

1. Take your SECOND Selig Gain and turn the fader way way down. Not off, but way down.
2. Plug the parallel channel output from the track you are sending to the delay into the 1st audio input on the back of the RE180.
3. Adjust the threshold on the front of the RE180 so that it lights up when the signal is present.
4. Go to the FIRST Selig Gain. Turn the fader down a lot. ~90%
5. Switch the light on the First Selig Gain from trim to VCA.
6. Reverse the the rack, and click on the red "Inv" button on the fader input on the second Selig Gain.
7. Route the CV out from track 1 of the RE180 into the into the fader input of the second Selig Gain.
8. Mess around with the settings until you get the desired result. This mainly involves the intensity of the upward gain, the overall level in the second Selig Gain and the threshold/attack/release on the RE180.

Also, you can use this method to get some very crazy organic gating sounds if you chose different triggers for the first Gain.

[AttenuationHz]

You could also set up almost a reverse side chain... on your delay send, add 2 of Selig's Gain REs AFTER the effect. Also add the free Red Rock Audio RE180 Dynamic Driver.

This method involves using CV voltage to automate the volume of the delay channel upward as the volume of the send effect fades downward. Once you get the trick of it, this is super fast and easy. But it may be more useful to just bounce the effect send to an audio file and draw in the volume automation.

***It is really easy to clip INSANELY LOUDLY with this method, so be careful. The first step should hopefully prevent that, but turn down your monitors til you get things dialed in****

1. Take your SECOND Selig Gain and turn the fader way way down. Not off, but way down.
2. Plug the parallel channel output from the track you are sending to the delay into the 1st audio input on the back of the RE180.
3. Adjust the threshold on the front of the RE180 so that it lights up when the signal is present.
4. Go to the FIRST Selig Gain. Turn the fader down a lot. ~90%
5. Switch the light on the First Selig Gain from trim to VCA.
6. Reverse the the rack, and click on the red "Inv" button on the fader input on the second Selig Gain.
7. Route the CV out from track 1 of the RE180 into the into the fader input of the second Selig Gain.
8. Mess around with the settings until you get the desired result. This mainly involves the intensity of the upward gain, the overall level in the second Selig Gain and the threshold/attack/release on the RE180.

Also, you can use this method to get some very crazy organic gating sounds if you chose different triggers for the first Gain.

Yep that needs to be patched up!

[hollyn]

Thanks, you guys!

Great creative suggestions.

Automating the feedback knob worked a treat. I can't believe I didn't think of that because I've actually done that in the past. So glad I asked!

[Stock Music Musician]

This actually inspired me to mess around with the idea last night... here's (IMHO) a cool way of using side-chain triggered LFOs to modulate the volume of reverb tails.

It's like the method I described above, but it uses a Pulsar's LFO to increase the volume on the Selig Gain. In turn, the LFO is trriggered to restart each time the kick drum hits, creating a really interesting ducking staby effect.

[selig]

Thanks, you guys!

Great creative suggestions.

Automating the feedback knob worked a treat. I can't believe I didn't think of that because I've actually done that in the past. So glad I asked!

Glad it worked!
Not only is automating the feedback a cool effect, but also dynamically controlling it can be very cool too. This allows things like low feedback levels when audio is playing, switching to higher feedback in the gaps which can subtly or dramatically fill the gaps. Works well for reverb too, btw, sort of the opposite of gated reverb (example in the FSB: EFX Dynamic Hall).

Here's a couple of examples both of ducking delays and ducking feedback delays (both patches do both things):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... ay.cmb.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... ys.cmb.zip

[hollyn]

Very cool, Stock Music Musician and Giles. (And thank you for the ducking patches also, Giles!)

I've been automating Scream's Damage amount for vocals and would like to avoid all of the tediousness work of that in the future. A dynamic response makes much more sense and I'm sure will sound better, too.

[selig]

Very cool, Stock Music Musician and Giles. (And thank you for the ducking patches also, Giles!)

I've been automating Scream's Damage amount for vocals and would like to avoid all of the tediousness work of that in the future. A dynamic response makes much more sense and I'm sure will sound better, too.

In my experience, sometimes dynamic control works well, sometimes automation works better. Goes for leveling and de-essing vocals, goes for FX, just about anything. Anything that is more "automatic" is going to be quicker, but sometimes there are stubborn cases that require a manual touch. And sometimes you may even need a little of both! That's my 2 cents, fwiw.

[hollyn]

Yes, agreed, Giles.