Using a Loudness Meter

[Galaxy]

Especially since Selig's long explanation never ends on the fact that once you've "re-unity-ed", if that's even a word, your mix at -12, that's when you're ready to start balancing levels.

Point = a lot of high end sounds, will sound way to loud if they peak at the same level as your mid and even worse low end sounds. You're either turning your bass drum up, or your hi hat down.

Selig, you never mention this part of the process clearly, leaving ppl to think a mix should have all sound peak at -12.

All I spoke about was setting levels. The question I was answering wasn't about how to mix.

So do I REALLY need to tell folks to move faders to achieve the desired balances?

If your goal is to be clear, then YES. English is not everyone's first language. The more clear and detailed you are about a process will help more ppl understand the context of your explanation. Sure many others have benefited greatly from your advice and expertise. Don't misunderstand my comment here. Only trying to contribute. Leaving it at levels should be set -12 leaves a less experienced user scratching their head thinking now what? Who was it who said a little bit of information is dangerous information?

Btw, Mitch, no apple cart being disturbed. I'm only adding to it. There are way too many engineers sharing bad practice advice and unclear information. Btw, I'm EXCLUDING Selig from this group. Selig your input and experience is always appreciated by myself and many others. Just adding apples to the cart. Can't help but read your long helpful explanations and not want to comment about leaving something out or beating around the bush sometimes

No offense meant, I highly value all you've contributed.

[selig]

Especially since Selig's long explanation never ends on the fact that once you've "re-unity-ed", if that's even a word, your mix at -12, that's when you're ready to start balancing levels.

Point = a lot of high end sounds, will sound way to loud if they peak at the same level as your mid and even worse low end sounds. You're either turning your bass drum up, or your hi hat down.

Selig, you never mention this part of the process clearly, leaving ppl to think a mix should have all sound peak at -12.

All I spoke about was setting levels. The question I was answering wasn't about how to mix.

So do I REALLY need to tell folks to move faders to achieve the desired balances?

If your goal is to be clear, then YES. English is not everyone's first language. The more clear and detailed you are about a process will help more ppl understand the context of your explanation. Sure many others have benefited greatly from your advice and expertise. Don't misunderstand my comment here. Only trying to contribute. Leaving it at levels should be set -12 leaves a less experienced user scratching their head thinking now what? Who was it who said a little bit of information is dangerous information?

Btw, Mitch, no apple cart being disturbed. I'm only adding to it. There are way too many engineers sharing bad practice advice and unclear information. Btw, I'm EXCLUDING Selig from this group. Selig your input and experience is always appreciated by myself and many others. Just adding apples to the cart. Can't help but read your long helpful explanations and not want to comment about leaving something out or beating around the bush sometimes

No offense meant, I highly value all you've contributed.

I respectfully disagree - the subject at hand was setting levels, NOT mixing. I could cloud the issue by going off on a tangent, or I can stay focused on the subject at hand. My goal IS to be clear, not opaque.

[Galaxy]

the subject at hand was setting levels, NOT mixing. I could cloud the issue by going off on a tangent, or I can stay focused on the subject at hand. My goal IS to be clear, not opaque.

Respect.

Though, setting levels is part of mixing, and by inserting "balance your levels to taste" to your explanation is far from clouding your information or going off tangent. I can't help but see how my point is being used against me. Come on man, you're suppose to be the community's resident expert. You'd think someone could contribute to your points without being told they're wrong or out of line all the time.

btw, if the subject is using a loudness meter, we're already way off topic. it relates, but still off topic if we're being that strict here. Shouldn't we be talking about Loudness Units then?

[selig]

the subject at hand was setting levels, NOT mixing. I could cloud the issue by going off on a tangent, or I can stay focused on the subject at hand. My goal IS to be clear, not opaque.

Respect.

Though, setting levels is part of mixing, and by inserting "balance your levels to taste" to your explanation is far from clouding your information or going off tangent. I can't help but see how my point is being used against me. Come on man, you're suppose to be the community's resident expert. You'd think someone could contribute to your points without being told they're wrong or out of line all the time.

btw, if the subject is using a loudness meter, we're already way off topic. it relates, but still off topic if we're being that strict here. Shouldn't we be talking about Loudness Units then?

I was clearing up a mis-conception and answering what I THOUGHT was a question. My bad if that's not what was really going on…
And to be perfectly clear, I was not in ANY way meaning to say you are wrong at all (apologies if I DID, but I certainly don't read my reply that way). Were YOU not the one saying I was "wrong?

You said:
"Selig, you never mention this part of the process clearly, leaving ppl to think a mix should have all sound peak at -12."

To which I said I disagreed (and still do). I hardly think anyone here believes I was explaining how to mix…

If that's what you call a "contribution" then we shall have to agree to disagree.


[EDIT - can I also say I'm NOT supposed to be anything here, let alone the "resident expert". IF I'm an expert at anything, then there are MANY MORE experts who know as much (if not more) than I do. I prefer to participate as one of many here who have EXPERIENCE I'm willing to share. In many cases that experience will have no bearing on the subjects being discussed here. Experience is NOT expertise IMO. I learned what I learned by listening to MANY different points of view, and it is thus my opinion that the best way for ReasonTalk to serve those seeking to learn about audio/music/recording etc. is to provide MULTIPLE points of view from ALL levels of experience. You can learn as much from a beginner as a veteran IMO (I KNOW I have learned from both), and in that spirit EVERY opinion is valid here - now FACTS, OTOH, need to be clarified so as not to propagate bad information as good. That being said, even what I said above is JUST an opinion - there are many ways to approach levels in Reason, and my approach is just one of many which I submit in an effort to contribute to the knowledge pool here. Readers should take all techniques into consideration and choose the ones that work best for them - at least, that's what I've done to reach the point I'm at in my career. As always, YMMV.]

[MitchClark89]

i just want get back on to positive note here- thanks to this thread (in particularly selig) and many others where such people share their advice and tips- i have got inspired to complete tidy up my current project. i set aside a complete rack for master fx, percussion, pads/keys/rhythm, bass and vocals and have put a selig rack marker at top of each rack as description! i then add selig gain to every instrument/rex/player etc to keep tab on peaks and tweak them before i re-start mix down process on weekend. when i picked reason back up this year and purchase reason 8, i did not even know you could add more racks!!!!! i have learnt immense things from all of the EXPERIENCE shared here from the valued members and admin/mods. thank you all i am very happy and inspired and now organised

MC

[Galaxy]

Selig, taking my original post out of context is a manipulative move btw, saying you disagree with what to consider a contribution?

If that's what you call a "contribution" then we shall have to agree to disagree

Edit: reflecting what he said for sake of clarification.

That's just like dismissing someone's opinion and advice, its insulting.


Is saying that leaving all your channels at -12 not the end, and there are more steps to take not a valid point?

We agree to disagree you're right, fine.

I'll end on this. Your opinion and advice have been invaluable to this community. Yes you are one of many resident experts here whether you like it or not, you're an expert because of your experience. A lot of us seek out your advice and opinion, and value it. This is why it's important to be clear. Fine so you try to be modest, but you also seem to be a knowitall, cause you actually do know a lot. That's fine cause we all have learned tons from you.

Thank you btw.

Your -12 channel leveling advice might not be the only way to "prep for mixing" in Reason and even other DAWs, but IMHO it's the best way to go about it. Probably the single most important piece of advice you've shared with the community.

Take the compliment and try not use passive aggressive net "YELLING" to rip apart my compliment to you.

Take this post how ever you'd like to. Just know this. I and many others appreciate each and every piece of advice and help you've offered this community.

Now how does one use a loudness meter?

Edit: I apologize, this got way outta hand. I should have never commented in the first place.

[selig]

Selig, taking my original post out of context is a manipulative move btw, saying you disagree with what to consider a contribution? That's just like dismissing someone's opinion and advice, its insulting.

Is saying that leaving all your channels at -12 not the end, and there are more steps to take not a valid point?

We agree to disagree you're right, fine.

I'll end on this. Your opinion and advice have been invaluable to this community. Yes you are one of many resident experts here whether you like it or not, you're an expert because of your experience. A lot of us seek out your advice and opinion, and value it. This is why it's important to be clear. Fine so you try to be modest, but you also seem to be a knowitall, cause you actually do know a lot. That's fine cause we all have learned tons from you.

Thank you btw.

Your -12 channel leveling advice might not be the only way to "prep for mixing" in Reason and even other DAWs, but IMHO it's the best way to go about it. Probably the single most important piece of advice you've shared with the community.

Take the compliment and try not use passive aggressive net "YELLING" to rip apart my compliment to you.

Take this post how ever you'd like to. Just know this. I and many others appreciate each and every piece of advice and help you've offered this community.

Now how does one use a loudness meter?

I don't know why this is still a thing...You keep saying I said things I never said. I'm done trying to clarify what I said and feel you're not responding to what I said but to your feelings about what I said.

I stand by what I said in my original post and how I said it. I appreciate your critique of my style, I just don't agree with it. I'll end it here, since we are both off topic for sure!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JerrelTheKing]

It's pathetic how much hate comments get directed at Selig. He's the most helpful and solid contributor to this forum. All I ever notice is him actually helping people and answering questions like mine from time to time. Internet hating is lame. It's the 21st century version of a 4th grade playground for adults. Grow up.

[selig]

It's pathetic how much hate comments get directed at Selig. He's the most helpful and solid contributor to this forum. All I ever notice is him actually helping people and answering questions like mine from time to time. Internet hating is lame. It's the 21st century version of a 4th grade playground for adults. Grow up.

OK, I'm going to go off topic here and clear a few things up - I hope.

While IMO there has been some actual "hate" directed at me from time to time over the years (welcome to the internet, right?), I would not say this is the case at all in this thread. While there HAS been some mis-characteration of my comments, and taking them personally such as calling them "insulting" or "manipulative", it's nothing I find "hateful" on any level.

What I CAN say is that I do NOT appreciate anyone saying I tell folks they are wrong or out of line "all the time" if I simply disagree with their assertions. That is not the reality of the situation, or even close IMO, and it implies I see myself as the only person who matters here or who's opinion is valid.

That being said, I acknowledge that this all comes with the territory, and t's something I've gotten used to as I've chosen to participate more often over the years by offering my view in a public forum. So I don't feel it's insulting when this happens, BUT I DO feel assertions such as I mentioned above are worth responding to so that my position on the matter is crystal clear.

I can also say I absolutely appreciate being challenged on facts - bring it on! Because if I'm mis-representing facts the LAST thing I want is for folks to be afraid to fact check me or point out any discrepancies in my comments! All I ask is that it is done with a level head and a minimum of hyperbole, and that folks try to do so while also trying not to take things personally (which is often why they tend to get out of hand in my experience).

Sorry for the extreme tangent here, but this has come up here before and apparently I was not clear on the subject at the time. Thanks for indulging this obvious off topic rant.

[Galaxy]

It's pathetic how much hate comments get directed at Selig. He's the most helpful and solid contributor to this forum. All I ever notice is him actually helping people and answering questions like mine from time to time. Internet hating is lame. It's the 21st century version of a 4th grade playground for adults. Grow up.

OK, I'm going to go off topic here and clear a few things up - I hope.

While IMO there has been some actual "hate" directed at me from time to time over the years (welcome to the internet, right?), I would not say this is the case at all in this thread. While there HAS been some mis-characteration of my comments, and taking them personally such as calling them "insulting" or "manipulative", it's nothing I find "hateful" on any level.

What I CAN say is that I do NOT appreciate anyone saying I tell folks they are wrong or out of line "all the time" if I simply disagree with their assertions. That is not the reality of the situation, or even close IMO, and it implies I see myself as the only person who matters here or who's opinion is valid.

That being said, I acknowledge that this all comes with the territory, and t's something I've gotten used to as I've chosen to participate more often over the years by offering my view in a public forum. So I don't feel it's insulting when this happens, BUT I DO feel assertions such as I mentioned above are worth responding to so that my position on the matter is crystal clear.

I can also say I absolutely appreciate being challenged on facts - bring it on! Because if I'm mis-representing facts the LAST thing I want is for folks to be afraid to fact check me or point out any discrepancies in my comments! All I ask is that it is done with a level head and a minimum of hyperbole, and that folks try to do so while also trying not to take things personally (which is often why they tend to get out of hand in my experience).

Sorry for the extreme tangent here, but this has come up here before and apparently I was not clear on the subject at the time. Thanks for indulging this obvious off topic rant.

Kudos to this. Jerrel if u didn't notice I edited my post to apologize. Selig is right and I never once lost respect for him or directed hate towards him. Did u skip over all the compliments said about him? This was a mild misunderstanding and we'll leave it at that. No hard feelings. This thread has gone off topic long enough. My comments not contributing at all. Selig if u feel it's appropriate, as a moderator u have my permission to delete our back in forth banter to direct this thread back to its proper place.

Apologies and respect.

[JerrelTheKing]

@galaxy my comments were not just about you or this thread specifically, however it was a reminder of something I've noticed on here pretty often thats actually pretty nasty from time to time. As a community we should salute the contributors. Selig has made great devices but also given away a lot of great free combi patches to go with advice. I appreciate the guy and anyone else who contributes to us being able to perfect our craft. That's all. I understand where youre coming from though. Respect to all.

[EdGrip]

The Props' own video explains "it's 64bit floating point so stop worrying" really well, in case anyone reading this thread hasn't seen it:
https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/fina ... d-clipping

[8cros]

[MitchClark89]

[quote="8cros"]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

[8cros]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I can try again if you want.

Of course Selig ignores me. And you can do it too.

[8cros]

[8cros]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

[MitchClark89]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

hello 8cros thanks for the other video I will watch it when I get home. I do not ignore you and I know you have talents from when I am reading your posts here but I could not understand much of the video I have been hobby producer for quite long time but until recently never bothered to understand such things as gain and dbfs I just mixed by ear and always got quite lousy result which I blamed on not having right gear. now I am learning but I must start slow at the beginning. I will watch the video and reply you soon

[selig]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

The video you posted supports everything I've said here and elsewhere.

BTW, I don't have a "stance", I only speak to what works for me, acknowledging that what works for me may or MAY NOT work for others. We're all here to share so that folks can choose from all options what works best for them in any particular situation. Could be something I mention here only works for someone in a specific case, but they will be thankful for the knowledge when that time comes I would think.

I only know that's how I learned and that's what works for me.

[selig]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

hello 8cros thanks for the other video I will watch it when I get home. I do not ignore you and I know you have talents from when I am reading your posts here but I could not understand much of the video I have been hobby producer for quite long time but until recently never bothered to understand such things as gain and dbfs I just mixed by ear and always got quite lousy result which I blamed on not having right gear. now I am learning but I must start slow at the beginning. I will watch the video and reply you soon

The video is about broadcast loudness measurement, creating a standard that helps folks that create content for broadcast. Florian is a broadcast audio producer, not a music producer, FWIW. IF you know a track will be broadcast, my recommendation has always been to hire a proper mastering engineer who can handle all of this stuff.

[Gulale]

Long time ago I was advised this book by Mixbus developer when I was looking for a book about understanding metering. Check this out and you will be good to go. https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Metering-M ... 0240814673

[selig]

Long time ago I was advised this book by Mixbus developer when I was looking for a book about understanding metering. Check this out and you will be good to go. https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Metering-M ... 0240814673

I'm still waiting for the movie…
AES: you know it will be a thrilling read (not for the feint of heart).

[8cros]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

hello 8cros thanks for the other video I will watch it when I get home. I do not ignore you and I know you have talents from when I am reading your posts here but I could not understand much of the video I have been hobby producer for quite long time but until recently never bothered to understand such things as gain and dbfs I just mixed by ear and always got quite lousy result which I blamed on not having right gear. now I am learning but I must start slow at the beginning. I will watch the video and reply you soon

The video is about broadcast loudness measurement, creating a standard that helps folks that create content for broadcast. Florian is a broadcast audio producer, not a music producer, FWIW. IF you know a track will be broadcast, my recommendation has always been to hire a proper mastering engineer who can handle all of this stuff.

Measuring loudnes is what we are discussing here.
Broadcast No clear as you say. We all work with audio mixing.
And we have at the moment only two of perception measurement device.
You are talking about measuring the peak and RMS. This confuses even experienced musicians. And here we are 90% use pre-mastering yourself.
We have isotope SSL and softube. We all use. Are you looking for an excuse diverting branch loudnes towards banal volume.

Create the topic "Using the Volume Meter". And write there.
Laudness - this is not the Broadcasting. This is primarily perception.
That is, the audio at all.

[Dabbler]

You know, on this recent PBS show called Sound Breaking, they do a good job on the history of loudness.

Hell they even explained why songs are 3 minutes long.

[selig]

thank for video.. i tried to watch but tbh i find much easier when selig explain to me in layman terms

I think Selig should reconsider its tough stance. This is obviously much harm sales, developers Red Rock and Flower Audio.

hello 8cros thanks for the other video I will watch it when I get home. I do not ignore you and I know you have talents from when I am reading your posts here but I could not understand much of the video I have been hobby producer for quite long time but until recently never bothered to understand such things as gain and dbfs I just mixed by ear and always got quite lousy result which I blamed on not having right gear. now I am learning but I must start slow at the beginning. I will watch the video and reply you soon

The video is about broadcast loudness measurement, creating a standard that helps folks that create content for broadcast. Florian is a broadcast audio producer, not a music producer, FWIW. IF you know a track will be broadcast, my recommendation has always been to hire a proper mastering engineer who can handle all of this stuff.

Measuring loudnes is what we are discussing here.
Broadcast No clear as you say. We all work with audio mixing.
And we have at the moment only two of perception measurement device.
You are talking about measuring the peak and RMS. This confuses even experienced musicians. And here we are 90% use pre-mastering yourself.
We have isotope SSL and softube. We all use. Are you looking for an excuse diverting branch loudnes towards banal volume.

Create the topic "Using the Volume Meter". And write there.
Laudness - this is not the Broadcasting. This is primarily perception.
That is, the audio at all.

Just talking about the video you posted, nothing more. If that video doesn't belong here, then please remove it! Otherwise I'm talking on subject as dictated by you.