Shame on you PH!

[deepndark]

Only way for getting the new SDK REs working for you would be, that Props make a parallel upgarade for 8.3, but ... propably won't happen.

[SA Studio]

It's kind of a shame because this was a point of contention back around v6.5 and v7.0 where we all wondered if we would always have to upgrade Reason anytime there was an SDK update.

I'm also still on Reason 8.3 because I haven't had a paid project that has needed anything from 9.0 yet and nothing I'm doing personally has warranted the upgrade. But I can't go to the shop and buy any of the new RE's?

"they seem to just dribble out releases and SDKs in an uncoordinated fashion " = This does seem uncoordinated. No disrespect to anyone, but I agree.

In a perfect world for me, they'd release a patch to Reason 8.3 that enables the new SDK capability. I think some people here seem to think that's an entirely different issue....but it's not. Take out the new chord players, the new color options, the new pitch corrector, and you're basically left with a patch that enables the new SDK capability. It could be patched for Reason 8 users. That's at least my perfect world scenario.

[FlowerSoldier]

FWIW I shot the Props an email directing them to this thread. There is a lot of useful feedback in this topic and I feel like a savvy business person would recognize that.

[joeyluck]

I'm also still on Reason 8.3...But I can't go to the shop and buy any of the new RE's?

Yes you can. You just can't buy REs that developers choose to make using SDK 2.5. You need Reason 9.2 for that. There will still be new REs made with the previous SDK.

[etyrnal]

So basically, where do you draw the line?

Typically the line is not based on the actual capabilities of the hardware. As we know the processors in most of the machines were using right now are essentially the same processes that they were a couple of operating system revisions ago. The artificial line is typically based on a desire to drive new sales. For example processors haven't gotten faster and faster and faster have they? I mean we're not and 6 gigahertz processor is are we? The processors internally are practically the same now as they were 10 years ago. The biggest differences having to do with things like virtualization and stuff which has nothing at all to do with the music app.

The laptops of today don't have processors in them that are any faster than the laptops of six years ago. The processors still have essentially the same instruction sets in them.

I know one of my machines the problem is that Apple decided to put a 32 bit logic board bios in a machine with a 64 bit processor. Because of this the machine cannot run the latest version of OS X. For me to move the OS X version forward I would have to get a new machine. So when software developers decide to arbitrarily code for and limit the software to the absolute latest version of the OS only it can cut people out based on a decision only, that has nothing to do with Hardware capability.

This is partly Apple's fault, but it is also the developers fault. Because it would be entirely possible to write a piece of software that is not dependent on the operating system. A piece of software can contain all of the code necessary even for creating its own interface and interactions with storage Etc. Reason actually already does this. When eyebrows for sounds in the reason it does not open up OS X's file browser window, it uses reasons own built-in file system Explorer. If reason was built to be less OS dependent, and contain more of these functions from homemade functions major changes in the OS wouldn't hurt it.

[joeyluck]

Now I'm left with a $129 "pay wall" to have to purchase exclusive RE's from the market.

And what about those customers, who, in order to upgrade to the needed version of Reason, would also have to update their OS X, and if they are on hardware that doesn't support the next OS X, they will have to buy a new computer too.

Arbitrary planned obsolescence. Making my perfectly capable hardware obsolete, just because somebody made an arbitrary decision.

If a person is going to be forced in to spending THAT much money, it makes looking into other non-propellerhead options just as likely.

Sometimes arbitrary planned obsolescence turns into a deep cascade of re-purchases... or... OTHER purchases.

I don't mean to provoke, but are you suggesting a slower pace in development? I'm not a programmer and therefore ignorant of how exactly things like this work, but in my experience, when a software company releases new features in an upgrade to their software, if the customers want those features, they pay the upgrade price. Maybe there are cases of precedence, where a software company decided to make features available to earlier versions, but I personally don't know any.
If you need to upgrade your OS in order to run Reason 9, then you must be on snow leopard, which has not been supported since 2016.
I agree that theoretically a laptop should be able to last 10 years, like in joeys case, but should software be able to be compatible with any older OS version?
To what point will you deny your software to utilize stuff like new API's? At one point there must be some development taking place, else the software ceases to be interesting for new customers, without which development will have to stop.
So basically, where do you draw the line?

I'm probably missing something here, but Reason 9 requires 10.7 or later.
The latest Mac OS is 10.12
And I'm on 10.9.5 on a 2008 MacBook Pro.

Reason 9 can run on an OS five versions previous (almost 6 years-old) and I can run it on my almost 10 year-old laptop.
Reason began requiring 10.7 or later about 4 years ago? But even that OS was free and could run on my old MacBook Pro.

I've had no reason to upgrade my OS beyond what I have now. I suspect I will have to eventually. The App store tells me my computer supports 10.11, but I am a little skeptical of that. But I plan to upgrade my computer soon anyways so I can start using this one as a backup that will run QLab for certain shows.

[SA Studio]

I'm also still on Reason 8.3...But I can't go to the shop and buy any of the new RE's?

Yes you can. You just can't buy REs that developers choose to make using SDK 2.5. You need Reason 9.2 for that. There will still be new REs made with the previous SDK.

I definitely meant "any new RE's built on the new SDK update".

Having to wait for years for the SDK update, and seeing it not timed with a new version release is a real shame for Propellerhead. As pointed out before, the timing of things could have been much better coordinated.

I think they should release a patch. There's so much money lost right now because the timing of a major update not being lined up with the timing of this new SDK update we've been waiting for years for. It's going to put off a lot of users, in my opinion.

[Gaja]

...
The laptops of today don't have processors in them that are any faster than the laptops of six years ago. The processors still have essentially the same instruction sets in them.
...

But that's actually part of my equation as well.
Since processors aren't going to go up to 6GHz, developers have to utilize the OS' best internal mechanisms to make their software more efficient. If the OS developers create new ways to make software function more efficiently, then developers will have to follow, in order for their software to stay attractive to new customers.
When Record came out in 2009 they actually published an interview, in which they state, that they wrote the environment to fulfill certain criteria. First and foremost it should be ready for the future, which included 64Bit operating systems, processors with multiple cores and a bunch of other things that escape me atm. They were actually amongst the first to offer 64bit support iirc. A couple of years later they discontinued 32bit, I think with Reason 8?
What I'm trying to say is that as technology progresses developers are better off adjusting, even if that means closing out certain customers. I don't think it's particularly evil to not include versions way behind, in an update intended for the latest technology.
Of course that's quite inconvenient and I understand your frustration completely. From the business perspective it makes sense though. Now Reason 9 offers more incentive to upgrade. The question is: Are the features of Reason 9 and the ability to use SDK 2.5 Rack Extensions worth 129€ to you?
Also when you upgrade your machine will it hurt to save an additional 129€ for the next Reason version? I assume you're on Reason 7, so if you're patient for another year or so and save up for your upgraded/new computer plus R10 upgrade, you'll get an extremely generous upgrade of three versions, including the .5 SDK update and access to all the REs that will have been built until then.

[ScuzzyEye]

Having to wait for years for the SDK update, and seeing it not timed with a new version release is a real shame for Propellerhead. As pointed out before, the timing of things could have been much better coordinated.

They do the opposite of that on purpose. SDK introduction/changes have all be in conjunction with a free update. So you don't have to pay to gain access to the new REs, if you're already on the current version.

[Steedus]

Forgive me if it's already in this thread, or is common knowledge to most at this point, but I've been away from the current trends/news for Reason for a few years.

I was wondering, does the latest SDK update finally address the issue of RE's not being able to write midi notes to the sequencer?

I remember this was one of the very first complaints people had about the system, and I had expected it to be one of the first things they'd add, but if I'm not mistaken it wasn't addressed in any of the updates prior to this one. Did they finally put this functionality in? I remember when they announced the RE format their idea was to allow RE's to have the same integrated functionality as stock Reason devices, but at least initially that wasn't the case.

[Loque]

Forgive me if it's already in this thread, or is common knowledge to most at this point, but I've been away from the current trends/news for Reason for a few years.

I was wondering, does the latest SDK update finally address the issue of RE's not being able to write midi notes to the sequencer?

I remember this was one of the very first complaints people had about the system, and I had expected it to be one of the first things they'd add, but if I'm not mistaken it wasn't addressed in any of the updates prior to this one. Did they finally put this functionality in? I remember when they announced the RE format their idea was to allow RE's to have the same integrated functionality as stock Reason devices, but at least initially that wasn't the case.

No, not directly. But there is a workaround via the Player devices, where you can send notes to a track by a press of a button.

[Steedus]

Ok thanks. I was just curious. I plan to get back into at some point... just waiting for inspiration to kick in.

[Loque]

Ok thanks. I was just curious. I plan to get back into at some point... just waiting for inspiration to kick in.

Just start to get started...

[kitekrazy]

I don't get it. Why not just upgrade if you have the money and you can afford it?

Why purposely handicap yourself?

Holding on to those Line6 amps?

Plus you can keep R8 by installing R9 to a different folder. I kept R7 and R8 but when I got 9, I didn't need the other 2.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Forgive me if it's already in this thread, or is common knowledge to most at this point, but I've been away from the current trends/news for Reason for a few years.

I was wondering, does the latest SDK update finally address the issue of RE's not being able to write midi notes to the sequencer?

I remember this was one of the very first complaints people had about the system, and I had expected it to be one of the first things they'd add, but if I'm not mistaken it wasn't addressed in any of the updates prior to this one. Did they finally put this functionality in? I remember when they announced the RE format their idea was to allow RE's to have the same integrated functionality as stock Reason devices, but at least initially that wasn't the case.

No, not directly. But there is a workaround via the Player devices, where you can send notes to a track by a press of a button.

No, but there has been a workaround since v7 for this using the EMI... simple hook up to the EMI and hit record.

[Oquasec]

That's what updates are supposed to do. Be backwards compatible not forward that's backwards.
Still on 8.3 myself since I use cv enough to not be that impressed with the players yet.

That EXPANSE LOOKS LEGIT THO that is a good one & a great companion for the parsec I use in my productions.
Integrating some popular RE's, a good idea for future updates.
An average one can go from 100-400 alone so the update is peanuts for what you get [this applies to all daws who do this]

[pedrocaetanos]

Actually, you might be right about that, as I don't think I've ever done "Sync all" when I had non-paid updates waiting to be accepted. In any case, updates from an older SDK to a newer one will generally be consequential enough to be paid upgrades, so that probably won't come into play here.

Doesn't have to be. Take VMG-01 for example, I know of a very minor UI bug in the plugin (display doesn't light up after bypassing and re-enabling the RE) but I cannot fix it while maintaining compatiblity for Reason 6.5 users. As I have to use the newer SDK now, as soon as I post the update there is no way for people with a fresh 6.5 install to download my plugin anymore. (Again, unless I make it "VMG-01 v2" which would technically be a new RE with a new full price for a bug fix O_O)

Speaking from personal experience:
- I often update individual REs instead of using the Udate All button - I can assure each time an RE is updated you get a button saying Free Update (in case it's a non-paid one, as most is)
- In case your Reason version is older and with na SKD not compatible anymore with the RE with a newer SDK you get a message stating that explicitly. I have experienced that when I wasn't in the latest Reason version. As I remember it you don't even get Buy/Trial buttons, just the comment stating incompatibility. What it doesn't state is the minimum Reason version that is compatible, it just states something like "Your Reason version is not compatible with this RE. Upgrade to the latest version."

Considering the reasons behind this, and already explained in this thread, I accept this limitations as the the best compromise.

What bothers me is this scenarios (although I haven't tested this, and it's not that importante, but some clues indicate this is the case):
I may want to run older versions of Reason to get Line6 devices (because of older Combis, for example);
I may want to run older versions of Reason in an older limited performance computer, with a 32-bit Windows;
Since my Props account will have the REs upgraded to the latest version, I believe I will not have the option to download incompatible REs in those older versions.
Meaning I believe the control of what RE version to make available for downlad is done by the latest RE upgrade registered in the Props account, and that will be the delivered version in all cases, regardless of what Reason version is installed currently in the computer being used.
I would rather have the option for some RE to download the latest version compatible with R6.5, if that is the installed Reason version, even if I have already upgrade that RE to the latest version with a later SDK.

[househoppin09]

Exactly, pedrocaetanos. That's the issue I've been grappling with. I'm still on Reason 7, but let's say I upgrade to R10 when that comes out. Then, I'm going to want to upgrade my REs to the latest versions that take advantage of the new SDK, but if I do that they'll disappear from Reason 7! That would be a non-issue if I just totally abandoned R7 in favor of R10, but I have a library of songs that make heavy use of the Line 6 devices, and my intention is to keep R7 and switch back and forth between versions of Reason as necessary. I mean, I complained plenty about this upthread and it's probably not worth retreading that ground now, but I'm glad to see that you also understand how frustrating this might be. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who will gradually start to realize more and more that this is going to create problems for them as more REs are updated to use the new SDK. It's probably wishful thinking, but I really and truly hope the Props are considering this and will find a way to accommodate those of us who will be running into these kinds of problems!