new macbook air good for reason 8.3 ?

[joeyluck]

Speaking of graphics though, could the difference in performance I'm noticing be that my 2008 MBP has a separate NVIDIA graphics card vs. the integrated Intel graphics found in the 13" Air (and 13" Pro I suppose as well)? I'm debating exchanging for a 13" 2015 MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7. But I'm a bit nervous performance will still be poor... The Air Turbo Boosts to 3.2Ghz and the 13" MBP Boosts to 3.4 GHz (with a higher base frequency though).

Reason doesn't use the Discrete card at the moment, only integrated on all Macs. So if you are testing Reason you need to disable card switching or use a tool like gfxCardStatus.

Ok good to know. The 13" 2015 Air and Pro both only have integrated graphics.

[EDIT] But as people are mentioning, there is better performance when disabling card switching... Meaning the OS is then using the discrete card always, correct? So what does that mean if Reason has better performance under the discrete card, but isn't using the discrete card?

I can refer to my blogpost I wrote about this: http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/audio-gl ... eason-fix/

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

[Marco Raaphorst]

Speaking of graphics though, could the difference in performance I'm noticing be that my 2008 MBP has a separate NVIDIA graphics card vs. the integrated Intel graphics found in the 13" Air (and 13" Pro I suppose as well)? I'm debating exchanging for a 13" 2015 MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7. But I'm a bit nervous performance will still be poor... The Air Turbo Boosts to 3.2Ghz and the 13" MBP Boosts to 3.4 GHz (with a higher base frequency though).

Reason doesn't use the Discrete card at the moment, only integrated on all Macs. So if you are testing Reason you need to disable card switching or use a tool like gfxCardStatus.

Ok good to know. The 13" 2015 Air and Pro both only have integrated graphics.

[EDIT] But as people are mentioning, there is better performance when disabling card switching... Meaning the OS is then using the discrete card always, correct? So what does that mean if Reason has better performance under the discrete card, but isn't using the discrete card?

I can refer to my blogpost I wrote about this: http://melodiefabriek.com/blog/audio-gl ... eason-fix/

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

Reason doesn't select it, but of course it can use it. Any program can use either of these cards. Most application don't have better performance with discrete, even full screen 4k video doesn't need it. But audio processing does need it. Ableton Live will switch it on like any other DAW except for Reason.

[joeyluck]

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

Reason doesn't select it, but of course it can use it. Any program can use either of these cards. Most application don't have better performance with discrete, even full screen 4k video doesn't need it. But audio processing does need it. Ableton Live will switch it on like any other DAW except for Reason.

I just used Novabench to test, and my 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card scored higher than the Intel HD 6000 integrated graphics of the 2015 MacBook Air. Hmmm.

They're allowing me to exchange to upgrade to the 13" MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7 which also has integrated graphics (Intel Iris 6100).
I sure hope that will perform better...

[Marco Raaphorst]

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

Reason doesn't select it, but of course it can use it. Any program can use either of these cards. Most application don't have better performance with discrete, even full screen 4k video doesn't need it. But audio processing does need it. Ableton Live will switch it on like any other DAW except for Reason.

I just used Novabench to test, and my 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card scored higher than the Intel HD 6000 integrated graphics of the 2015 MacBook Air. Hmmm.

They're allowing me to exchange to upgrade to the 13" MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7 which also has integrated graphics (Intel Iris 6100).
I sure hope that will perform better...

Well, that NVIDIA card in your old MacBook Pro is probably a lot better than the Intel Iris 6100 which is a serious budget graphics card, check for example http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.p ... +Iris+6100 I think your 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card is really golden machine! Make sure it uses the fastest SSD for external memory and you are a happy man! Current MBpro models are really bad product imo. Even my model, the late 2013 MBpro retina is something I regret buying. It's a small case so I cannot upgrade or change anything at all! Apple is doing it the wrong way lately imo...

[Data_Shrine]

The current problem with the interated graphics and Reason will also probably show up on the 13-inch MBP. Its very unfortunate.

I also agree that the current Apple lineup is not stellar. Maybe you could get a refurbished 15" pre-touch bar MBPr (2015) with 2 GPU from Apple website ? Or pay the difference with B&H ?

Even with the discrete card you'll still encounter the issue Reason without using the mentionned App to force it to switch to the better GPU. I havent had a chance to try it myself but every1 seems to say that it works.

Good luck !

[joeyluck]

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

Reason doesn't select it, but of course it can use it. Any program can use either of these cards. Most application don't have better performance with discrete, even full screen 4k video doesn't need it. But audio processing does need it. Ableton Live will switch it on like any other DAW except for Reason.

I just used Novabench to test, and my 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card scored higher than the Intel HD 6000 integrated graphics of the 2015 MacBook Air. Hmmm.

They're allowing me to exchange to upgrade to the 13" MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7 which also has integrated graphics (Intel Iris 6100).
I sure hope that will perform better...

Well, that NVIDIA card in your old MacBook Pro is probably a lot better than the Intel Iris 6100 which is a serious budget graphics card, check for example http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.p ... +Iris+6100 I think your 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card is really golden machine! Make sure it uses the fastest SSD for external memory and you are a happy man! Current MBpro models are really bad product imo. Even my model, the late 2013 MBpro retina is something I regret buying. It's a small case so I cannot upgrade or change anything at all! Apple is doing it the wrong way lately imo...

Well at this point I am with a new computer that I need to exchange, but can't simply return.

It's too bad Propellerhead doesn't list graphics recommendations. I wouldn't have ever given it much thought.
And I didn't when I purchased the MacBook Air. Was just comparing CPU... And from what Apple and others told me, I would see an increase in performance just going to the MacBook Air.

Surely the 13" 2015 MBP 3.1GHz i7 has got to be an upgrade from my 2008 MBP, even if the NVIDIA graphics are better? Going from a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo to a 3.1GHz i7 would see an improvement even considering any difference in graphics performance, right?

I'm still trying to educate myself on the new processors and wrap my head around Turbo Boost. The 2.2 GHz i7 Air Turbo Boosts to 3.2 GHz while the 3.1 GHz MBP Turbo Boosts to 3.4 GHz. One Turbo Boosts a great deal. But the other has a higher base frequency which should be better I assume...

[Marco Raaphorst]

Ok. So are you saying it doesn't select to use it rather than doesn't use it? Because if it has better performance when a discrete card is used, it must be using it, right? I'm a bit confused.

I'm asking about this because I'm wondering if that is why I get a little bit better performance from my 2008 MBP with an NVIDIA card vs. this new MacBook Air i7 with integrated graphics.

Reason doesn't select it, but of course it can use it. Any program can use either of these cards. Most application don't have better performance with discrete, even full screen 4k video doesn't need it. But audio processing does need it. Ableton Live will switch it on like any other DAW except for Reason.

I just used Novabench to test, and my 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card scored higher than the Intel HD 6000 integrated graphics of the 2015 MacBook Air. Hmmm.

They're allowing me to exchange to upgrade to the 13" MacBook Pro 3.1 GHz i7 which also has integrated graphics (Intel Iris 6100).
I sure hope that will perform better...

Well, that NVIDIA card in your old MacBook Pro is probably a lot better than the Intel Iris 6100 which is a serious budget graphics card, check for example http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.p ... +Iris+6100 I think your 2008 MacBook Pro NVIDIA card is really golden machine! Make sure it uses the fastest SSD for external memory and you are a happy man! Current MBpro models are really bad product imo. Even my model, the late 2013 MBpro retina is something I regret buying. It's a small case so I cannot upgrade or change anything at all! Apple is doing it the wrong way lately imo...

Well at this point I am with a new computer that I need to exchange, but can't simply return.

It's too bad Propellerhead doesn't list graphics recommendations. I wouldn't have ever given it much thought.
And I didn't when I purchased the MacBook Air. Was just comparing CPU... And from what Apple and others told me, I would see an increase in performance just going to the MacBook Air.

Surely the 13" 2015 MBP 3.1GHz i7 has got to be an upgrade from my 2008 MBP, even if the NVIDIA graphics are better? Going from a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo to a 3.1GHz i7 would see an improvement even considering any difference in graphics performance, right?

I'm still trying to educate myself on the new processors and wrap my head around Turbo Boost. The 2.2 GHz i7 Air Turbo Boosts to 3.2 GHz while the 3.1 GHz MBP Turbo Boosts to 3.4 GHz. One Turbo Boosts a great deal. But the other has a higher base frequency which should be better I assume...

Not sure how things will compare. You need to test them. Higher numbers not always mean: faster.

Turbo Boost is cool but it will only do it's work when the CPU is stressed and when using the integrated card which Reason uses I guess that will mean: trouble. It is all tricky stuff. I have seen people complain that the newer Macs where much slower than the old ones.

[Rook]

I recently got an Early 2015 13" MacBook Pro with the i5 when they went on sale. I really like it, but it definitely has some weirdness running Reason. I have it in low res mode and with just 6-8 tracks, a few REs, the CPU seems to jump pretty high (75%ish). Seems like it should be able to handle way more. Especially considering I was using a crappy PC with an old i3 processor for a long time and never really had issues.

I know it's a different thing, but I can run a similar project in Logic Pro X and it barely touches the CPU.

[joeyluck]

I recently got an Early 2015 13" MacBook Pro with the i5 when they went on sale. I really like it, but it definitely has some weirdness running Reason. I have it in low res mode and with just 6-8 tracks, a few REs, the CPU seems to jump pretty high (75%ish). Seems like it should be able to handle way more. Especially considering I was using a crappy PC with an old i3 processor for a long time and never really had issues.

I know it's a different thing, but I can run a similar project in Logic Pro X and it barely touches the CPU.

Thanks. Yeah I'm really on the fence about what to do. I don't want another 15" laptop and it's quite a bit more to get one that has a discrete graphics card anyways... if I go with the 13" MacBook Pro with 3.1 GHz i7 (also integrated graphics), I may not notice a big difference from the 2.2 GHz i7 MacBook Air...

Maybe I stick with the Air with cross my fingers that Propellerhead improves CPU efficiency/graphics handling on Mac?

[joeyluck]

I always set the CPU Usage Limit to 'None,' but here's a dumb question...

From the manual:

• The CPU Usage Limit setting allows you to set a limit on how much of the CPU (computer processor) that should be
  used for creating audio. The remaining capacity is reserved for the user interface and the graphics.
  Set this so that you feel comfortable using the program, even when a very demanding song document is played back.

Does "the remaining capacity" mean the difference of the CPU Usage Limit set? For instance, if I set the CPU Usage Limit to 80%, approximately that much will be used for audio while the system would allocate the "20%" left to user interface and graphics? Or is it saying that for whatever limit you set, it will first address the audio and whatever is left in that percentage will be given to user interface and graphics?

[joeyluck]

I recently got an Early 2015 13" MacBook Pro with the i5 when they went on sale. I really like it, but it definitely has some weirdness running Reason. I have it in low res mode and with just 6-8 tracks, a few REs, the CPU seems to jump pretty high (75%ish). Seems like it should be able to handle way more. Especially considering I was using a crappy PC with an old i3 processor for a long time and never really had issues.

I know it's a different thing, but I can run a similar project in Logic Pro X and it barely touches the CPU.

Ok so I've ventured into Garageband on the Air and installed Zebra and Diva it is incredibly more efficient. Even with using complex patches. Makes me feel better about the hardware and hopeful that maybe Reason can be improved for Mac. I shouldn't be chasing the software I prefer by dumping more money to try to get it to run efficiently. It's unfortunate and my fingers are crossed that the performance issues can be addressed with some of that new investment money

[joeyluck]

On the topic of graphics cards... Would a viable solution for some folks be to use an external card?

[Data_Shrine]

I recently got an Early 2015 13" MacBook Pro with the i5 when they went on sale. I really like it, but it definitely has some weirdness running Reason. I have it in low res mode and with just 6-8 tracks, a few REs, the CPU seems to jump pretty high (75%ish). Seems like it should be able to handle way more. Especially considering I was using a crappy PC with an old i3 processor for a long time and never really had issues.

I know it's a different thing, but I can run a similar project in Logic Pro X and it barely touches the CPU.

Ok so I've ventured into Garageband on the Air and installed Zebra and Diva it is incredibly more efficient. Even with using complex patches. Makes me feel better about the hardware and hopeful that maybe Reason can be improved for Mac. I shouldn't be chasing the software I prefer by dumping more money to try to get it to run efficiently. It's unfortunate and my fingers are crossed that the performance issues can be addressed with some of that new investment money

I think they really have to do something about it, and faster than the way they usually do things. It's not normal that Reason is underperforming so badly, that it becomes practicly unusable. Sierra has been out for a while now. We should all write to them about it to keep the pressure up.

[Rook]

Ok so I've ventured into Garageband on the Air and installed Zebra and Diva it is incredibly more efficient. Even with using complex patches. Makes me feel better about the hardware and hopeful that maybe Reason can be improved for Mac. I shouldn't be chasing the software I prefer by dumping more money to try to get it to run efficiently. It's unfortunate and my fingers are crossed that the performance issues can be addressed with some of that new investment money

Yeah, it's strange, isn't it? Not sure if you use Kiloheartz One, but I was able to identified it last night as a major culprit in my high CPU usage. Replaced it with Antidote and it got much better, but still kinda high. And still sucks compared to what I can do in Logic with hardly any CPU hit. I just don't enjoy working in Logic that much. I might give Ableton another shot, until Props can get the issue resolved.

[joeyluck]

Ok so I've ventured into Garageband on the Air and installed Zebra and Diva it is incredibly more efficient. Even with using complex patches. Makes me feel better about the hardware and hopeful that maybe Reason can be improved for Mac. I shouldn't be chasing the software I prefer by dumping more money to try to get it to run efficiently. It's unfortunate and my fingers are crossed that the performance issues can be addressed with some of that new investment money

Yeah, it's strange, isn't it? Not sure if you use Kiloheartz One, but I was able to identified it last night as a major culprit in my high CPU usage. Replaced it with Antidote and it got much better, but still kinda high. And still sucks compared to what I can do in Logic with hardly any CPU hit. I just don't enjoy working in Logic that much. I might give Ableton another shot, until Props can get the issue resolved.

Ha! kHs ONE is actually one of the more efficient RE synths for me. I guess it depends what you are doing with any synth.
But things are pretty inefficient in Reason on Mac in general right now.

[Rook]

Ha! kHs ONE is actually one of the more efficient RE synths for me. I guess it depends what you are doing with any synth.
But things are pretty inefficient in Reason on Mac in general right now.

Really? That is weird. I can open up one instance of kHs One, play some extended chords and I'm already up to 2-3 bars on the CPU meter. With NOTHING else in the project.

Yeah, I've been pretty frustrated as I just switched from PC to Mac a year ago. I love macOS, but the way it handles Reason has been a major bummer

[joeyluck]

Ha! kHs ONE is actually one of the more efficient RE synths for me. I guess it depends what you are doing with any synth.
But things are pretty inefficient in Reason on Mac in general right now.

Really? That is weird. I can open up one instance of kHs One, play some extended chords and I'm already up to 2-3 bars on the CPU meter. With NOTHING else in the project.

Yeah, I've been pretty frustrated as I just switched from PC to Mac a year ago. I love macOS, but the way it handles Reason has been a major bummer

Yeah, sorry you and lots of other people are experiencing that. This is only a recent experience for me. And I am using a MacBook Air, but it is a 2.2GHz i7 (Turbo Boosts to 3.2 GHz) and it performs very well with all other apps that I've tried. I have twice as much RAM as before (8GB vs. 4GB on the MBP). Never considered the impact of the graphics card. Funny if that is what gives my almost 10-year-old laptop a slight edge in some cases. I'm very efficient with how I work in Reason, but even with that, I'm noticing this.

Before having the Air, I used my 2008 MacBook Pro and before that a PowerMac G4 Cube! Reason had run very efficiently when it was a simpler application...but also wasn't but so much you could do before audio recording and Rack Extensions.

I prefer Mac OS for the way everything else just works for me. And because I work in theatre and design my shows using QLab (which is only for Mac) I need to use it. Again, the performance in other apps has helped me to feel better about this purchase and the light shed on some of the potential issues with Reason on Mac gives me hope that it can be improved (fingers crossed).

Everyone at Apple said I would see an increase in performance and they were perplexed as to why it is slightly less efficient in many cases within Reason. Instead of trying to upsell me, they were initially saying the hardware must be faulty. But the diagnostic test, benchmark tests, performance in other apps, and the overwhelming reports by Reason users says otherwise...

[Rook]

A little update: I got a response from Propellerhead. At least they are aware of and acknowledging the issue.

Thanks for your message in such detail and sorry to hear of this

We are aware of some performance issues on El Capitan and Sierra, and I can assure you we are in contact with Apple regarding this.

I assume you have tried all the usual possible work arounds (trying different audio interfaces, sample rates, setting buffer etc) which can sometimes help in the short term ?

Best Regards,

James Lean

Propellerhead Software
www.propellerheads.se

[joeyluck]

A little update: I got a response from Propellerhead. At least they are aware of and acknowledging the issue.

Thanks for your message in such detail and sorry to hear of this

We are aware of some performance issues on El Capitan and Sierra, and I can assure you we are in contact with Apple regarding this.

I assume you have tried all the usual possible work arounds (trying different audio interfaces, sample rates, setting buffer etc) which can sometimes help in the short term ?

Best Regards,

James Lean

Propellerhead Software
http://www.propellerheads.se

Got a similar response as well. Looking forward to it being resolved soon.