Reason emptied my song again.

[Last Alternative]

This is the 4th time now in about a year or so period. Just letting you guys know, whoever else this has happened to- I know there's at least a few. No other issues whatsoever on my computer or any other software glitches and yet at times Reason suddenly makes my song go *POOF!*
The file is there but says the size is 0kB. I try to open repeatedly and every time I get the error saying the song cannot be opened.
Funny thing is, even a newly made/titled/saved .reason file takes up some space; 769kB, in fact.

I have emailed PH.. again imploring an investigation/solution because their software is merely worthless if it keeps doing that. I am scared to use Reason in fear of losing a song. Yes I backup my stuff but what's the point when I have a great session that far evolved from what it originally was before opening..

Anyway, just a heads up that it happened. And FYI, when I'm in Reason that's all I'm doing. It's my only DAW. Everything else is closed, my computer is very current, and I work in every song the same so it's nothing I did. Restore point doesn't work, computer search- no troubleshooting works.

The worst part is it was my pre-album single it just happened to and it was practically ready for Benedict to mix. Time to figure something else out because I'll never get that sound back so thanx, PH.

Peace.

[Exowildebeest]

Have you ruled out harddrive failure?

[Last Alternative]

^ You serious? It's a SSD, and no issue with anything else I do on my computer so... I guess that rules it out. Plus it happened on my laptop too so....

[tibah]

It's easy to blame the developer, but this is a rather odd issue. !4 years of Reason and I never had or seen this issue. If this is not reproducible by anyone, or PH, there is also little sense in trying to investigate fixing it.

When this never happened before ever (using the same version of Reason over a certain period of time, without this happening), you best best is trying to save your projects to a different location, if possible, and test it this way. Also saving different versions and/or edits of the same project and see how many get influenced by this.

EDIT: oke, happening on 2 machines is even more weird :/

Is this with Reason 7 or 8? (Not that this would help, but still...)

[Exowildebeest]

^ You serious? It's a SSD, and no issue with anything else I do on my computer so... I guess that rules it out. Plus it happened on my laptop too so....

I was totally serious, I have experienced harddisk failure and the weirdest symptoms occur It's like computer-Alzheimers.

But the latter argument mostly rules it out (although not definitively, but it's highly unlikely).

Seems like a serious bug. Should be investigated.

[Benedict]

I don't think I have ever had a Reason file eviscerate itself. I have lost a whole Reason album to a drive going awol but that is a different thing. In my Atari days losing files was common.

I see songs sphinctering themselves as a sign from (the) god (I don't believe in so lets call it Life) that I am on the wrong path. I came to this conclusion in my Atari days, as when I thought on it, the computer only ever edited tracks that weren't working - despite my desire to push onward against all common sense.

Evaporating the track lets me take the good ideas and start again fresh and I end up with something better.

[platzangst]

For whatever it's worth: while I've never had Reason do it, I have had instances where some files seem to get saved but then later turn out to be "empty", just a file name with no data. And usually what this has turned out to be is that something has interrupted the writing process somehow. With me, this usually means I was running some other program that interfered at some critical moment, or was running too many processes for my computer to handle at one time, or something that would not have happened if I had just let the saving program do its own thing without trying to do something else at the same time. Of course, no two computer systems are alike, so there could be any number of reasons why this is happening - folder settings, anti-virus weirdness, you name it. But my suspicion is that it's not Reason itself, but something else in the system interfering when Reason tries to save something.

[clone]

I never had a track disappear but, settings have been moved. Once in a while I'm logging on reason and notice that stuff have been changed, really weird.

[avasopht]

Well maybe your workflow exposes a bug in reason, which is why nobody else has experienced it. Maybe ph could give you a mild logging version that records your actions persistently.

But I can feel the anxiety, I'm feeling the same about my laptop. Works perfectly now that I've repaired it, but it was switching off sporadically for a while and then it would switch off before the login screen. Worst of all is that until I repaired it it would switch off right at the end of the windows installation, so I'm reluctant to take it out of the house now in case I knock something out of place.

[JNeffLind]

Don't mean this as any sort of accusation, but it occurred to me that you could be dealing with some sort of virus from less than reputable software. There are certainly commercial refills available illegally and some smart ass over righteous fellow may have slipped something in you weren't expecting. There are also free refills available via bit torrent that could have been tampered with. May sound paranoid, but this seems like a strange problem so perhaps it requires strange logic to solve.

I repeat, not trying to accuse you of anything, just something for everyone to consider when looking at pirated software, refills, etc. Don't know if this is applicable, but it's a possible explanation.

[sinusfiction]

I would also suspect the OS more then Reason. It could be the anti-virus software for example, or some other realtime proces interfering with disk I/O. Like Dropbox, which had once this kind of bug (way back). SSD's also comes with problems corrupting files sometimes.

Anyway, one thing you know: it is not a widespread problem, otherwise this forum would have exploded, so it must be something in your configuration what makes Reason glitch.

Because you have two PC's on which this occur, it might be useful to make a list of things that are exactly the same on both devices (OS type, 32/64 bit, SSD, same antivirus, dropbox or other sync software installed, et cetera).

Good luck, these are really annoying problems.

[jfrichards]

How often does this happen?
Does it happen in the middle of recording?  Editing?  Saving?  Closing?  Sitting idle?
Do they disappear only after closing Reason?
Do you have any autosave enabled?
Have files been there one day or one hour, then the content is not there when opening the computer or Reason for the next session?
What programs do you open between Reason sessions?
Do you stay connected to the internet when recording?
Do you go onto the internet between sessions?
Have you cleaned out all your cookies lately?
Do you have any apps listed that you don't recognize?
Have you said anything bad about Reason publicly in the last year?

[Last Alternative]

Everything I have for REfills, samples, patches, etc. is legit. There are never any symptoms while working in Reason- it's only after saving/exiting and trying to open my song later that I notice it's 0kB. Almost as if when it happens, it's like a saving glitch happened when closing the song. I don't do autosave and I have never had an error or problem while saving while in the middle of a session.
Yes I go online while recording at times. Sometimes I go on FB for a quick break while I purposefully listen while distracted and no- I don't play FB games or click on ads. Mostly when I go online w/ Reason open it's to read recording/mixing articles. If I need to watch a tutorial video then I close Reason. Also, I regularly delete my browsing history/cookies and I don't look at porn when I'm doing music..
As I said, I never have any other programs open when I'm using Reason. I've emailed PH twice now with no response or even a confirmation email, even though after I sent them emails it said "Thank you, your email has been sent to PH support".... very odd so I hit them up on a FB pm and they said they have no record of recent emails from me and to email them again. I'm tired of all of it. They've told me in the past there's nothing they can do so what's the point. I guess I'm doomed for this to keep happening every now and then.

With it going on on 2 completely different computers now, I can't for a second think it's anything on my end or even fathem how I could've caused it.

Should I not be saving while the song is playing?
Should I not open more than one song at once in order to quickly jump from one song to the next?
Is it possible my laptop hard drive AND very modern desktop SSD attacks ONLY my Reason files and nothing else on my computer?!? (give me a break)..

I really don't know what to make of this and it's really turning me off. No other DAW has ever done this to me.

[JNeffLind]

Here's another way outside the box possibility...

Could you be sleepwalking? (Sleep deleting?)

Or do you ever get black-out hammered when you might potentially get frustrated with a song and shit-can it? (No judgement, getting hammered is an integral part of being an artist for many).

As someone who's been known to talk in his sleep (or do other strange and embarrassing things) with zero recollection, I wonder if this could be a possibility. My brother one time got up and walked past two bathrooms, then peed in his girlfriend's laundry basket when extremely drunk. (She had been trying to get him to do laundry. Could it have been a subconscious unsconscious/semi-conscious act?) He had zero recollection.

Not sure how you could "catch yourself" if this was the case. Maybe the next time you find a file emptied you could check the properties to see the last time it was saved or accessed. Just another shot in the dark trying to make sense of a strange problem.

[Exowildebeest]

These suggestions are getting a bit ridiculous now.

It still sounds like a severe but rare Reason bug, or a very rare combination of software/system errors that lead to this.

Not a virus and certainly not bloody sleepwalking/fugue states, come on.

Having multiple songs open, or saving while the song is playing, shouldn't matter. But maybe you can check if there's audio-stretch calculating going on while you were saving? As another, more realistic suggestion of a source for a bug...

[Exowildebeest]

Also, please for the sake of all of us, try the 8.3 beta, and see if it happens there

It has logging, it might help Propellerheads pin down the issue!

[Last Alternative]

JNeffLind- Get real man. Even if you delete a song in a sleepwalking rage or whatever the fuck you're talking about, as far as a computer is concerned it's the same command as a wide awake calmly made delete which would send the file to your recycle bin fully intact, not becoming a file in the same place as before with 0kB.
God man are you bored?

[True]

The best way to start troubleshooting is to try to think of what your songs all have in common. For example, do you always have the same master insert setup? Do you always arrange your rack a certain way? Do you always increase the channel input gain on the SSL mixer? Etc. There is almost certainly a common denominator, and since it is happening on two machines, that common denominator is quite probably in your standard workflow.

[Last Alternative]

The best way to start troubleshooting is to try to think of what your songs all have in common. For example, do you always have the same master insert setup? Do you always arrange your rack a certain way? Do you always increase the channel input gain on the SSL mixer? Etc. There is almost certainly a common denominator, and since it is happening on two machines, that common denominator is quite probably in your standard workflow.

And if that's the case it is obviously a rare Reason bug. Yes my workflow is pretty much always the same- same colors for kick, snare, bass, guitars, etc. Same order of instruments in the rack, same verse/chorus/verse, etc. blocks titles... I like to keep things uniform so I know exactly where everything is from song to song.
I appreciate you guys trying to throw ideas out there but we're not gonna resolve this here. Originally, I was just giving peeps a heads up because it's been happening to me.
I really hope it doesn't happen to you guys. It's such a disappointing soul crushing experience that I actually start to feel hopeless and even walk away sometimes for a month or more in defeat. It's SO MUCH WORK to get a song almost done and then... it's just gone forever. Makes me not even care about my music anymore which is a horrible thing. Especially when PH doesn't seem to care.

[Exowildebeest]

This bug needs to be hunted down like a rabid velociraptor man, don't give up. Try the 8.3 beta. If there's any chance to identify the bug, presuming it still occurs in that version at all, it's there.

[True]

And if that's the case it is obviously a rare Reason bug....we're not gonna resolve this here...PH doesn't seem to care.

Yes, if that is the case it is a rare bug. And I can't speak to whether Props cares or not, but they probably can't do much even if they want to without having some starting point. Whether you're willing to go through the troubleshooting process is, of course, up to you. You are correct that a resolution will not be found here. This is entirely between you and Props at the moment; we are simply trying to help you figure out what to tell them (assuming it is a bug).

[normen]

Well getting the beta version and trying to force the bug to happen would make most sense, it has very extensive logging so you might actually find out whats the issue here.

[EnochLight]

Well getting the beta version and trying to force the bug to happen would make most sense, it has very extensive logging so you might actually find out whats the issue here.

Agreed.

I'm not doubting that the OP is having the problem and it needs addressing, but I just can't replicate it.  

I've had every version of Reason since release day in 2000, have hundreds of project files... and never had this problem.  I save while playing back my project sometimes, I do a file-save-as while it's stopped sometimes, and I save over some projects during both scenarios.  No problems.  Mechanical hard drives and now SSD.  No problems.

To Last Alternative: do you version your song projects while working on them?  If not, you might want to try that approach.  That way if one of your saves takes a crap as you seem to be experiencing, you can fallback onto the last save prior as a recover option.  I've been versioning my project saves for well over 15 years, and it's saved my ass plenty of times.

[normen]

Agreed.

I'm not doubting that the OP is having the problem and it needs addressing, but I just can't replicate it.  

I've had every version of Reason since release day in 2000, have hundreds of project files... and never had this problem.  I save while playing back my project sometimes, I do a file-save-as while it's stopped sometimes, and I save over some projects during both scenarios.  No problems.  Mechanical hard drives and now SSD.  No problems.

To Last Alternative: do you version your song projects while working on them?  If not, you might want to try that approach.  That way if one of your saves takes a crap as you seem to be experiencing, you can fallback onto the last save prior as a recover option.  I've been versioning my project saves for well over 15 years, and it's saved my ass plenty of times.

I never experienced this either and it doesn't seem like anybody else around here has. That being said, I do believe that when OP says he has this issue that its real, ending up with a 0kb file is indeed very strange.

Only thing I could imagine outside of a very "heisenbergish" bug in Reason is that OP always has some small software installed on his computers that he doesn't even think about much. Like a virus checker, some kind of caching tool or something like that.

[Last Alternative]

I will look into beta testing 8.3. Fingers crossed that it happens... on a song I don't mind losing.
*the only virus checker I use is Semantec Endpoint Protection. Sometimes, if ever, Malwarebytes. Never have any problems with it to my knowledge. By the way, if it isn't a Reason bug can someone please explain why or how no other program or file on my computer unrelated to Reason goes unaffected? I'd really like to know!