Europa & Grain are smh special

[Kalm]

I just wanted to thank props on the creation of Europa and Grain as I did not know HOW MUCH these instruments mattered to my production. Half the time I try to avoid them just so I can use Serum and the other synth RE I have but . . . SHEESH.

[scratchnsnifff]

I just wanted to thank props on the creation of Europa and Grain as I did not know HOW MUCH these instruments mattered to my production. Half the time I try to avoid them just so I can use Serum and the other synth RE I have but . . . SHEESH.

Iv been the same way lately! At first I was kind of hesitant with Europa because it’s very few wavetables, I only really use a handful of them. But it’s awesome for supersaws, and rythmic mseg rythmic patches. I use serum strictly for FM growls, something about serum is different when it comes to those monster sounds. Iv made some awesome sounds with REs like expanse, and even Thor and Europa can hold their own with big monster sounds. But iv come to use serum for that and everything else I make uses a mix of stock and Res. But anyways yes! Much love for the new synths, grain is hands down my favorite granular device. Very straight forward and quick to make any granular content.

[Kalm]

Creating bells with Europa is absolutely monstrous. Literally the plucks you can get out of Europa with a sprinkle of distortion is unbelievable. The biggest thing is how QUICK it is to get the sounds set. Envelopes already mapped, LFO's to warp the sound are set and changeable. I just used grain with a vocal chop sample and the whole unit works beautifully. I want to post some stuff but I'm trying to hold off. Anyone experienced CPU problems with Europa & Grain??

[Rason]

At first I was disappointed by the limited backpanel of Europa. But the modulation is so well thought out that there is almost no need to go external. Most of the modulable parameters have its own slot plus the regular matrix. The aproach of mangling and dancing the waves before layering them is very effective, opposite to what I am used to from regular subtractive synths. I havent played with any "waveshapers' before except for pwm or fm ( no serum or xpanse here..i own movement though) so I am blown by the results I get before even reaching for another engine or using single matrix slot. The sound is rich and the fx sound great esp. unison and phaser. Maybe I will get bored one day but for now I am still very excited about it after a month, and I can make quick sounds right on the way without getting stuck and without separating sounds and composition.The graphical layout is exactly the scifi neurological stuff I like. I think this must be the best stock instrument ever or maybe one of the best in general, considering the approach. So yes, big thanks Pro

[Rason]

Creating bells with Europa is absolutely monstrous. Literally the plucks you can get out of Europa with a sprinkle of distortion is unbelievable. The biggest thing is how QUICK it is to get the sounds set. Envelopes already mapped, LFO's to warp the sound are set and changeable. I just used grain with a vocal chop sample and the whole unit works beautifully. I want to post some stuff but I'm trying to hold off. Anyone experienced CPU problems with Europa & Grain??

Nope, seems very effective. I am on haswell i5 3,2 and can stack dozens.


Odesláno z mého D5503 pomocí Tapatalk

[moneykube]

Creating bells with Europa is absolutely monstrous. Literally the plucks you can get out of Europa with a sprinkle of distortion is unbelievable. The biggest thing is how QUICK it is to get the sounds set. Envelopes already mapped, LFO's to warp the sound are set and changeable. I just used grain with a vocal chop sample and the whole unit works beautifully. I want to post some stuff but I'm trying to hold off. Anyone experienced CPU problems with Europa & Grain??

depending on the sample... how it is played... yes ... grain has caused clicking and too slow messages, although grain itself is likely not the issue for me... would love to be able to test it in reason 9.2.2 to see if there is difference but since it is not a rack I can not test that issue fully...
can not do dozens on my setup, but as a synth I love it...
Rason... question... are you using only the sounds that came with Grain ? Have you tried these 2 refills out for it?(Granular Manoeuvres & GranulaRe are 2 I have)
if yes... can you still do dozens with the refills? it would help me to know this as I trouble shoot my performance issues with 10 on my laptop...(2.6 ghz intel I7 with 16 gig ram)... I don't think I had problems when going through the stock patches that come with Grain
perhaps because my refills are on ext thunderbolt hard drive

[Kalm]

I've always wanted to ask that since I'm gonna find myself using about 5 of them in a session. I can't do so with synths like VK-2 and the latter. So I'm just imagining what they could create if they redid their older instruments.

I personally wish I could save the patch of Grain with the sample.

[EdGrip]

I loved it when R10 came out and the forever-grumpy forumites were all like "ugh, Reason doesn't NEED new stock instruments! Nobody needs new stock instruments! I've got Serum so therefore everybody does, even beginners! This update is shit, I'm burning my computer!"

...when of course Europa and Grain were EXACTLY what Reason needed right now. It pretty much puts them at the front of the stock synth pack, which is a big deal for an electronic music-focused DAW.
Ableton's Wavetable doesn't look as deep, and you have to pay €475 for Suite to get it.
I'm really looking forward to getting them when I decide to update.

[modecca]

I been doing insane stuff with Grain but am a bit disappointed with Europa , because I can't change the wave-table type in the combinator (can't do it with Expanse either). This was something I really wanted to do cause I made a dice rolling patch randomize combinator, but realized I was stuck with one wavetable type (guess I will have to focus on Parsec and Nostromo).

[Oquasec]

Yeah it really is a few hours quicker to do that than in thor. You'd have to take a couple minutes to do some modmatrix magic

[scratchnsnifff]

I been doing insane stuff with Grain but am a bit disappointed with Europa , because I can't change the wave-table type in the combinator (can't do it with Expanse either). This was something I really wanted to do cause I made a dice rolling patch randomize combinator, but realized I was stuck with one wavetable type (guess I will have to focus on Parsec and Nostromo).

My main thing with Europa is how few wavetables there are, I really hope they add more. Or expand on the drawing oscillator by adding one more. Matthias did say that sample import (wavetable import) isn’t available at this particular time, opening the possibility at least, I’m hopeful that the props will at least add another batch of either normal or dynamic tables

[modecca]

My main thing with Europa is how few wavetables there are, I really hope they add more. Or expand on the drawing oscillator by adding one more. Matthias did say that sample import (wavetable import) isn’t available at this particular time, opening the possibility at least, I’m hopeful that the props will at least add another batch of either normal or dynamic tables

Yeah now that you mention it 34 wavetables does seem a bit lean.
I mean I do like many things about Europa and am drawn to it flavor of sound sculpting, but am very surprised by its
lack of parameters in the combinator.
Most 'types' can't be automated (exception effect type): This includes wavetable type, spectral filter type, filter
type,modifier type, harmonic type, lfo shape type, unison type. Parsec for example, does not have these limitations.

Yet Europa does have that good old trusty 'envelope select' as the very first option in the combinator. Now what I would ever need that for, I have absolutely
no clue.

It's like stop complaining and make the most out of the device and I normally do that, but knowing that even Subtractor from way back in the day, doesn't suffer from these limitations, makes it look like having a wide range of automation options is a thing of the past and does not appear to be a priority going forward.

[Oquasec]

There's a lot of RE that do straight up wavetable making already, but europa should have one of it's own at some point

[Rason]

Creating bells with Europa is absolutely monstrous. Literally the plucks you can get out of Europa with a sprinkle of distortion is unbelievable. The biggest thing is how QUICK it is to get the sounds set. Envelopes already mapped, LFO's to warp the sound are set and changeable. I just used grain with a vocal chop sample and the whole unit works beautifully. I want to post some stuff but I'm trying to hold off. Anyone experienced CPU problems with Europa & Grain??

depending on the sample... how it is played... yes ... grain has caused clicking and too slow messages, although grain itself is likely not the issue for me... would love to be able to test it in reason 9.2.2 to see if there is difference but since it is not a rack I can not test that issue fully...
can not do dozens on my setup, but as a synth I love it...
Rason... question... are you using only the sounds that came with Grain ? Have you tried these 2 refills out for it?(Granular Manoeuvres & GranulaRe are 2 I have)
if yes... can you still do dozens with the refills? it would help me to know this as I trouble shoot my performance issues with 10 on my laptop...(2.6 ghz intel I7 with 16 gig ram)... I don't think I had problems when going through the stock patches that come with Grain
perhaps because my refills are on ext thunderbolt hard drive

Hi. I meant this in general and I actually tested Europas. I tried 24 instances playing 3- note chord of random 3- engine preset each and it took about 3 bars of DSP. So theoretically I could have maybe up to 50 of them playing chords at once. Thats a looot.Theoretically. I havent tried to test Grain this way yet but I know I have many playing in one project with no stress. I dont have the refills you mentioned and I would say definitely the complexity of the patch itself makes a big difference.

[Kalm]

24 Europas in a session for the quality you get out of Europa is pretty insane. Hence why many times I might start off with something like Serum, The Legend, or MixFood 4. But if I need a specific sound made then I'll make the patch in Europa cause the stress doesn't exist on my Mac Mini. If they do go the whole import your own wavetables, hopefully its not treated in the same manner as grain.

[scratchnsnifff]

24 Europas in a session for the quality you get out of Europa is pretty insane. Hence why many times I might start off with something like Serum, The Legend, or MixFood 4. But if I need a specific sound made then I'll make the patch in Europa cause the stress doesn't exist on my Mac Mini. If they do go the whole import your own wavetables, hopefully its not treated in the same manner as grain.

I don’t know for certain but I don’t think the importation of custom waveforms/wavetables would use much cpu, I didn’t really notice any spike in expanse when it went from proprietary waveforms to custom. I would assume that it only uses more cpu If you use that function. Haha what does a guy gotta do to get this voiced out to the propellerhead team

[Kalm]

24 Europas in a session for the quality you get out of Europa is pretty insane. Hence why many times I might start off with something like Serum, The Legend, or MixFood 4. But if I need a specific sound made then I'll make the patch in Europa cause the stress doesn't exist on my Mac Mini. If they do go the whole import your own wavetables, hopefully its not treated in the same manner as grain.

I don’t know for certain but I don’t think the importation of custom waveforms/wavetables would use much cpu, I didn’t really notice any spike in expanse when it went from proprietary waveforms to custom. I would assume that it only uses more cpu If you use that function. Haha what does a guy gotta do to get this voiced out to the propellerhead team

True but my main gripe is saving the patches and self contained files. I can’t save the sample used in Grain with the synth itself. Everything is referenced. I don’t know if this is a similar experience with expanse or not.

[EnochLight]

Sample import for Europa will likely never happen. Its whole point is to generate wavetables on the fly with its 3 waveform engines, and/or let you draw your own. It's not playing back sampled wavetables. Still, I can see the appeal of wanting it.

@Kalm: I agree - both Europa and Grain are fantastic devices, and very inspiring to work with.

[Reasonable man]

Love Grains, cant find a usage for Europa i'm afaid,,,,,,,,,,,, but then anything wavetable gives my head a massive throbbing migrane . No synth in Reason tops Thor . Thor is still where its at.

[scratchnsnifff]

Sample import for Europa will likely never happen. Its whole point is to generate wavetables on the fly with its 3 waveform engines, and/or let you draw your own. It's not playing back sampled wavetables. Still, I can see the appeal of wanting it.

@Kalm: I agree - both Europa and Grain are fantastic devices, and very inspiring to work with.

You might be right, haha I’m hoping that it’s a feature that the props themselves want, at the very least they should give it more factory tables, that little wavetable folder has a small amount compared to most other synths. I see what you mean though. Also it’s odd how when drawing waveforms that you only get 2 when shifting trough it . There is enough room where they could have added a 5th envelope:) a man can dream for wavetable import

[PhillipOrdonez]

I havent given Thor or Subtractor any love since the upgrade came out.

I am a non serum or any other wavetable user before this (subtractive has been enough for the music I make for my personal projects, hence the lack of need for anything wavetably). And Grain was the main draw of the two for me because I could give it some serious use.... Anyway, to the point: Around the time of the upgrade though, I got a new client who required me to make EDM tracks and boy have I been using (and loving) Europa! So easy to program good sounds, and the presets are pristine; I have never made music so fast (players deserve a big mention here for me, I came from version 7)!!!!

I can see myself using Europa a lot on my future personal projects as well.

I personally wish I could save the patch of Grain with the sample.

I am not sure I understand? I have saved Grain patches that use external samples?Or do you mean that you want to save the patch so that you can send it alone WITHOUT the sample to somebody else?

[Kalm]

I personally wish I could save the patch of Grain with the sample.

I am not sure I understand? I have saved Grain patches that use external samples?Or do you mean that you want to save the patch so that you can send it alone WITHOUT the sample to somebody else?

In other words, Grain doesn’t allow self containing of samples with its patch, only the project with its use. So if you import a sample and attempt to save a patch, it says the sample can not be self-contained in the song and must be externally saved on the drive. If you tamper with this file (name change or move) Grain no longer can access that sample. In other words, the sample is not embedded in the patch itself... unless I’ve overlooked a setting.

[JRJulius]

This is nit picky but I’m curious if anyone else has noticed it. Open Thor, select Mono Legato mode, set your amp attack and release time to maximum, and hold a note until it reaches full volume.

Now, release the note, wait a few seconds, and trigger another. The second note picks up from the same volume that the first note left off at.

Do the same in Europa or Grain and the second note will start from zero volume, cutting off the first note’s release phase. This makes them very difficult to use with long attack times.

It’s common among polysynths and not a dealbreaker by any means, but it’s interesting that they programmed it one way in Thor and another in the new flagships. Anyone else notice this?

[Rason]

This is nit picky but I’m curious if anyone else has noticed it. Open Thor, select Mono Legato mode, set your amp attack and release time to maximum, and hold a note until it reaches full volume.

Now, release the note, wait a few seconds, and trigger another. The second note picks up from the same volume that the first note left off at.

Do the same in Europa or Grain and the second note will start from zero volume, cutting off the first note’s release phase. This makes them very difficult to use with long attack times.

It’s common among polysynths and not a dealbreaker by any means, but it’s interesting that they programmed it one way in Thor and another in the new flagships. Anyone else notice this?

Someone already addressed this here on forum. I believe the conclusion was it is an error that will be fixed, but not 100 sure.

[Reasonable man]

This is nit picky but I’m curious if anyone else has noticed it. Open Thor, select Mono Legato mode, set your amp attack and release time to maximum, and hold a note until it reaches full volume.

Now, release the note, wait a few seconds, and trigger another. The second note picks up from the same volume that the first note left off at.

Do the same in Europa or Grain and the second note will start from zero volume, cutting off the first note’s release phase. This makes them very difficult to use with long attack times.

It’s common among polysynths and not a dealbreaker by any means, but it’s interesting that they programmed it one way in Thor and another in the new flagships. Anyone else notice this?

Yea Hydlide did a video about it. He said he sent an email to props asking them to fix the europa fault but that was 2 monyhs ago