Requesting more information from Mattias

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stp2015
Posts: 324
Joined: 02 Feb 2016

27 Aug 2019

Hi Mattias,

TLDR: Please share some information about expected point upgrades to Reason 11.

As you can see, the Reason 11 upgrade is very controversial on this forum. Some users seem very excited about using the rack in other DAWs, and some users feel that the core changes are just not worth the 129 moneys.

When you first became the product manager, you provided some information that helped existing users understand where Reason is going. You also gave us insights into the VST optimization as it was ongoing.

I think it would be very helpful if you could tell us something about point upgrades to be expected for Reason 11. I think I speak for many users, if I say that upgrading to 11 would be easier with some information about what else we will be getting down the line for our money. AU is one thing, but many of us clearly care more about core Reason.

A statement like "we still care about the DAW" is good, but more specific information about your plans is better. In my opinion, the least satisfying answer is "we cannot speak about ongoing work". There must be some sort of middle ground that is vague enough not to violate company policies, and informative enough to motivate those of us on the fence about the upgrade to pull the trigger.

Thanks

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diminished
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27 Aug 2019

Thanks for this post.
+1
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CR68
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27 Aug 2019

+1 :thumbs_up:

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Loque
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27 Aug 2019

If i were the product manager, i would tell nothing. Well, nothing explicit. Just to be ahead of competitors...
Reason12, Win10

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Luxuria
Posts: 149
Joined: 17 Mar 2016

27 Aug 2019

I took the statement to mean, "We won't completely abandon the DAW but it's not our main priority."

How do you expect their small team to work on an AU reason rack plugin and create updates for the DAW that has a difficult codebase to work with?

That's just blunt opinion, but the signs are clearer then ever.

He's not going to provide any remarks that will make the wait any more comfortable.

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boingy
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27 Aug 2019

Loque wrote:
27 Aug 2019
If i were the product manager, i would tell nothing. Well, nothing explicit. Just to be ahead of competitors...
And because plans change, priorities change and sometimes stuff is harder to do than you thought so maybe you can't deliver it in a sensible timeframe.

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guitfnky
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27 Aug 2019

Loque wrote:
27 Aug 2019
If i were the product manager, i would tell nothing. Well, nothing explicit. Just to be ahead of competitors...
if your DAW didn’t have markers, auto-punch-in/out, VST MIDI, etc, you could stay as tight-lipped as you like—you’d never have to worry about being ahead of your competitors. 😂
I write music for good people

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stp2015
Posts: 324
Joined: 02 Feb 2016

27 Aug 2019

boingy wrote:
27 Aug 2019
And because plans change, priorities change and sometimes stuff is harder to do than you thought so maybe you can't deliver it in a sensible timeframe.
I would argue that most of us reacted with great civility and understanding when Mattias informed us that the VST performance fix was taking longer than expected.

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fullforce
Posts: 849
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27 Aug 2019

stp2015 wrote:
27 Aug 2019
some users feel that the core changes are just not worth the 129 moneys.
Oh hello! Welcome to each previous upgrade!
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Steedus
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27 Aug 2019

It's probably not a good idea ... Imagine him hinting at a certain upcoming feature, getting certain people excited and buying R11 now, then for what-ever reason that features gets cancelled or shelved down the line .. how would the forum react then?

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Raveshaper
Posts: 1089
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

27 Aug 2019

What is most likely occurring is a restructuring of the team behind what we have known as Reason up until now. Take a look at the brand changes to get a better idea of what this means down the road.

First, they changed to a more "professional" name to boost credibility. It's more generic, but it fits with what they make, what their philosophy is as a company, and what their goals are. Reason Studio says "we are the studio behind Reason, and it's a virtual studio full of gear". Simple, eloquent, much better.

Second, the new leadership has rightly identified that a lot of people either haven't heard of Reason, or they don't want to invest in a plugin format they can't take with them. Making the rack load in as a plugin allows people who already use something else to pick up Reason and leverage its strengths: the instruments and effects it has.

Third, the Reason app was always intended to be a "big, weird, super instrument" as someone (probably Mattias) previously said. But they are aware that this has to evolve to meet the demand for a better "studio" experience (the GUI, features, etc). Opening up to other hosts is their way of boosting brand awareness, increasing legitimacy in the eyes of the industry, and welcoming business partnerships. Of course increasing revenue is a big part of that. I think what they're doing with these three things is most of the plan so far.

With the revenue increase from people opting in so they can sequence the rack in the host of their choice, there will be something like a team that works on "official" instruments and a team that only works on features and improvements to the studio side of things: the rack, the sequencer, the meat of the actual program.

By separating things into a rack plugin and the actual core program, this buys them time to make possibly breaking changes during a drastic re-write (again) of core code to bring versions 13+ up to speed with the competition. I don't think version 12 will be far enough away from now for those re-writes to be completed.

That's what I would guess. They're starting with brand image first, increasing awareness of their product second, then increasing revenue third so they can restructure into parallel teams. I could be entirely wrong about all this, but it does look like drastic updates to virtually every way they do things is (and I never thought I would ever say this) Actually Happening.
:reason: :ignition: :re: :refillpacker: Enhanced by DataBridge v5

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1423
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

27 Aug 2019

Raveshaper wrote:
27 Aug 2019
What is most likely occurring is a restructuring of the team behind what we have known as Reason up until now. Take a look at the brand changes to get a better idea of what this means down the road.

First, they changed to a more "professional" name to boost credibility. It's more generic, but it fits with what they make, what their philosophy is as a company, and what their goals are. Reason Studio says "we are the studio behind Reason, and it's a virtual studio full of gear". Simple, eloquent, much better.

Second, the new leadership has rightly identified that a lot of people either haven't heard of Reason, or they don't want to invest in a plugin format they can't take with them. Making the rack load in as a plugin allows people who already use something else to pick up Reason and leverage its strengths: the instruments and effects it has.

Third, the Reason app was always intended to be a "big, weird, super instrument" as someone (probably Mattias) previously said. But they are aware that this has to evolve to meet the demand for a better "studio" experience (the GUI, features, etc). Opening up to other hosts is their way of boosting brand awareness, increasing legitimacy in the eyes of the industry, and welcoming business partnerships. Of course increasing revenue is a big part of that. I think what they're doing with these three things is most of the plan so far.

With the revenue increase from people opting in so they can sequence the rack in the host of their choice, there will be something like a team that works on "official" instruments and a team that only works on features and improvements to the studio side of things: the rack, the sequencer, the meat of the actual program.

By separating things into a rack plugin and the actual core program, this buys them time to make possibly breaking changes during a drastic re-write (again) of core code to bring versions 13+ up to speed with the competition. I don't think version 12 will be far enough away from now for those re-writes to be completed.

That's what I would guess. They're starting with brand image first, increasing awareness of their product second, then increasing revenue third so they can restructure into parallel teams. I could be entirely wrong about all this, but it does look like drastic updates to virtually every way they do things is (and I never thought I would ever say this) Actually Happening.
also
if you look at the europa VST. many users asked about grain, and other RE's to be ported to VST.

why do a one by one porting when you can just port the platform in a wrapper as a vst.

i love this idea! and just because they make their stuff accessible in other platforms, it doesn't mean that they won't keep updating reason. it just means they grew another branch on their company tree. :)

also i do 10000000% believe i remembered seeing a post a year or two ago from someone i thought was absolotley bonkers (at the time) talking bout changing how RE's are used by bringing them ALL to vst.

turns out this person was 10000000% correct. and the person posted this even before VST in reason as well as before europa vst etc.

some of us tin foil hat personal do get it correct every now and then :D haha
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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Raveshaper
Posts: 1089
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

27 Aug 2019

scratchnsnifff wrote:
27 Aug 2019
just because they make their stuff accessible in other platforms, it doesn't mean that they won't keep updating reason. it just means they grew another branch on their company tree. :)
Right. What I was saying is that they're potentially freeing up the people who could otherwise be working on Reason core features by splitting off a dedicated team of "Rack VST" instrument / effects designers.

Also, a massive re-write to the core code.
:reason: :ignition: :re: :refillpacker: Enhanced by DataBridge v5

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1423
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

27 Aug 2019

Raveshaper wrote:
27 Aug 2019
scratchnsnifff wrote:
27 Aug 2019
just because they make their stuff accessible in other platforms, it doesn't mean that they won't keep updating reason. it just means they grew another branch on their company tree. :)
Right. What I was saying is that they're potentially freeing up the people who could otherwise be working on Reason core features by splitting off a dedicated team of "Rack VST" instrument / effects designers.

Also, a massive re-write to the core code.
exactly!

like, i totally understand the brand loyalty that goes on with DAWS
its just as intense as car people or android vs mac
i just am happy that now all my tools will speak with each other :)
but even if you don't own a DAW, you never know what might catch your attention down the line. i got ableton as a play place for DJ'ing. but now i use it for some sound design, but i found that nothing compares to sound design in reason. that's because its just what i know. i don't see propellerhead ditching reason. if they ever actually did that, they would just have something else in place.

perhaps a new DAW that is similar to reason but has RE connectivity in some way. unless thats a double standard because RE is technically the old code lol.

but reason seems absolutely fine. and now everyone can use it!!
even for a minimal price of 100 for intro! thats so amazing, people can use scream4, thor, NNXT, europa and others for the price of a halfway decent midi controller :D i love this idea
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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Last Alternative
Posts: 1344
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Location: the lost desert

28 Aug 2019

I pray I feel like my face is a picture of a mule looking back on these dark times, when it turns out that all along they were reworking for a MASSIVE overhaul to be the best music software on the planet for all. Time will tell.
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:reason: 12.7.4 | MacBook Pro (16”, 2021), OS Sonoma, M1 Max, 4TB SSD, 64GB RAM | quality instruments & gear

stp2015
Posts: 324
Joined: 02 Feb 2016

28 Aug 2019

I guess at this point we have our answer - not getting any more info...Means I will probably skip 11. When point upgrades get released, I will probably decide to wait a few more months for 12...

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Timmy Crowne
Competition Winner
Posts: 357
Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Location: California, United States

28 Aug 2019

A roadmap would really be appreciated. The blog could serve this purpose and would create way more user engagement than its current use. Maybe the rebranding will change the PR culture over there.

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