Limitor question

[samsome]

i was watching a video from Avicii making a track

at 7:52 he seems to put a limitor

a) can you please confirm its on the master he puts that on? i don't use FL studio and can't understand...but i think he puts it on the master?

b) is he essentially producing into a mastering limitor? so he basically puts the mastering limitor straight up from the beginning and everything is pushed up to 0db?

c) what do you need to be aware of when doing it this approach? do you need to go back into the limitor every now and then and lower the threshold or something?

thanks

[Loque]

a) He said that
b) He said that
c) You need to be aware, that this is complete bs IMO.

[selig]

a) He said that
b) He said that
c) You need to be aware, that this is complete bs IMO.

Awesome response - totally agree.

I like to say: Mixing is already hard enough, why add something that's potentially pushing back and changing things while you mix?
If mixing into a compressor/limiter and you push one thing louder, it will often make another thing softer. Then you have to raise the softer thing back to where it was before, and it causes something else to move. It's like herding cats or wack-a-mole. I prefer levels to stay where I put them, and again even then, mixing isn't easy - why make it harder?

There seem to be some amazing pros that claim they CAN do this. Good for them, I'm not THAT good, so I don't need ankle weights on during a race. Sorry for all the mixed metaphors… 

[Boombastix]

I don't think his mixes from back then we're any good, so I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect. But look and learn from his workflow and composition skills.

It common though to put a maximizer or limiter on a demo before sending it off for feedback. You can also put one on while producing and mixing on the go, just to check from time to time the mix levels. But I don't have it on all the time.

[Mike B]

i was watching a video from Avicii making a track

at 7:52 he seems to put a limitor

a) can you please confirm its on the master he puts that on? i don't use FL studio and can't understand...but i think he puts it on the master?

b) is he essentially producing into a mastering limitor? so he basically puts the mastering limitor straight up from the beginning and everything is pushed up to 0db?

c) what do you need to be aware of when doing it this approach? do you need to go back into the limitor every now and then and lower the threshold or something?

thanks

Hey Samsome, FL Studio user here.

a) Yes he puts it on the master channel. Generally in FL studio the default template is called « Basic + Limiter » which adds a Limiter at the end of the master channel.

b) Yes that’s what he’s doing. If you understand the concept of limiting, your decision of whether or not to add a limiter while or after mixing really depends on what you wanna do.

c) Yes. They experiment with threshold as well as going back and forth.
People tend to be scared of using the limiter on the master while mixing because you are not necessarily aware of the frequencies you are chopping while limiting. A limiter is essentially used on a channel (master or any channel) to increase the dynamic perception while maintaining the same db.
Many people use it on a kick, bass or of course master section.
Should you do it ? Well I dunno. It depends what you’re after. I know many people that mix in a limiter. They usually go for big bass genres. But what I do advise you is to always go back and forth pre/post limiter to understand what are the frequencies you’re chopping.

Bottom line : There are no rules. Mix however you feel comfortable. If you choose to add a limiter, play with threshold like you have mentioned. Experiment before/after. I know famous producers that mix through limiters and it just depends on the sound you’re looking to shape.

Also try to keep it simple on you master channel. Focus more on individual channels rather and gain stage, i.e, maintain the same amount of decibels (say -9db) before and after FX that you add to the channel (meaning, say channel = -9db, before EQ for example. Add EQ and readjust the EQ’s output to re-reach -9db on that channel). And then add the limiter to the master channel. You usually get a "cleaner" result in terms of perceived loudness.

Of course, this is not an absolute rule. Just a nice basic theory to have in mind.

Enjoy making music.

[danc]

a) He said that
b) He said that
c) You need to be aware, that this is complete bs IMO.

Awesome response - totally agree.

I like to say: Mixing is already hard enough, why add something that's potentially pushing back and changing things while you mix?
If mixing into a compressor/limiter and you push one thing louder, it will often make another thing softer. Then you have to raise the softer thing back to where it was before, and it causes something else to move. It's like herding cats or wack-a-mole. I prefer levels to stay where I put them, and again even then, mixing isn't easy - why make it harder?

There seem to be some amazing pros that claim they CAN do this. Good for them, I'm not THAT good, so I don't need ankle weights on during a race. Sorry for all the mixed metaphors… 

Interesting thoughts back and forth here. I personally have a project template that I use to produce and mix against, which does include a master-grade compressor and limiter on the master channel. Plus I include in there a stereo enhancer for the mid to upper end and mono control tools for the lower end (e.g. Boz Mongoose). Plus I have a few console emulators to add weight and grit (e.g. SSL/Neve desks) etc.

I personally find it easier to build tracks with these in place. However, I do have level/loudness/dynamic-range analytics etc before and after the comp/limiter to ensure everything is in check.

I find for EDM styles, producing against master channel tools enables me to make the most of these tools... as in... you can push the sound in different ways to get a specific (e.g. solid/rounded) type of sound - especially in the sub zone which is a magical weird-science all of its own. Plus you can get the high-end to sing without sounding harsh.

I understand the argument for and against this. I think you should try both out and see what works best for you.

Each to their own in the wild-west of sound!

[Chizmata]

if youre some kind of genius, you could probably mix into a limiter. otherwise, not so much.

[WarStar]

Typically as far as the industry is today, alot of producers do this so they can hand it off as a demo mix so perhaps for who ever maybe mixing later, or for a mastering engineer to kinda get a general feel of song, or to hand off to an artist to write their partz