Pitch Edit Bug?

[Dabbler]

If this has been reported please delete.

I record audio bass parts on a standard acoustic guitar.

Then I transpose the track down -12 to get it to sound like bass.

I do this during development because it's easier than dragging out the actual bass guitar.

Today I missed a note so I went into the pitch editor and moved it down a semitone.

But then the entire track sounded distorted or otherwise artifacted.

I tested this on a new file with only a single audio track and got the same thing.

Is this a new issue?

[marcuswitt]

If this has been reported please delete.

I record audio bass parts on a standard acoustic guitar.

Then I transpose the track down -12 to get it to sound like bass.

I do this during development because it's easier than dragging out the actual bass guitar.

Today I missed a note so I went into the pitch editor and moved it down a semitone.

But then the entire track sounded distorted or otherwise artifacted.

I tested this on a new file with only a single audio track and got the same thing.

Is this a new issue?

Artifacts may occur, depending on source material and Reason’s Stretch and Transpose Type algorithm that you’ve chosen to be applied on your Bass/Guitar track. Have you tried changing the Stretch and Transpose Type algorithm?

[chimp_spanner]

If this has been reported please delete.

I record audio bass parts on a standard acoustic guitar.

Then I transpose the track down -12 to get it to sound like bass.

I do this during development because it's easier than dragging out the actual bass guitar.

Today I missed a note so I went into the pitch editor and moved it down a semitone.

But then the entire track sounded distorted or otherwise artifacted.

I tested this on a new file with only a single audio track and got the same thing.

Is this a new issue?

My partner just got through doing a hefty vocal edit job with Reason and yeah, definitely some weirdness in the pitch detection/algorithm sometimes. We found the best way around it when it happens is to disable stretch, isolate the part that needs to be edited and then do correction on just that part. Not sure what causes it tbh. In the case of these vocals it seemed to be anything with a lot of harmonic overtone. But not always.

[RealReasonHead]

Funnily enough, I've run into this a few times and have just now created a video and .reason file which I will send to support. I really think this should be fixed. It is so irritating.

[MrFigg]

Funnily enough, I've run into this a few times and have just now created a video and .reason file which I will send to support. I really think this should be fixed. It is so irritating.

Hahahahaha Hahahaha. Excellent!!!! That’s an hour of your time you’ll probably never see again.

[RealReasonHead]

Hahahahaha Hahahaha. Excellent!!!! That’s an hour of your time you’ll probably never see again.

They fixed a bug in the last update that I submitted not so long ago, so joke's on you.

[MrFigg]

Hahahahaha Hahahaha. Excellent!!!! That’s an hour of your time you’ll probably never see again.

They fixed a bug in the last update that I submitted not so long ago, so joke's on you.

It’s no joke man.

[RealReasonHead]

It’s no joke man.

Yeah, yeah, I know, we are all bitter around here.

[MrFigg]

It’s no joke man.

Yeah, yeah, I know, we are all bitter around here.

Speaking for myself there’s no bitterness. I’ve accepted it and moved in with my life. But read the threads, ask the people. The truth is out there. I guess you had a small victory and that’s great. I hope we see more with the implementation of the ongoing Beta.

[RealReasonHead]

Speaking for myself there’s no bitterness. I’ve accepted it and moved in with my life. But read the threads, ask the people. The truth is out there. I guess you had a small victory and that’s great. I hope we see more with the implementation of the ongoing Beta.

I've read the threads, I've been here for a while. But while others like to complain and make forum posts I try to give some feedback. Same time invested, more outcome.

[MrFigg]

Speaking for myself there’s no bitterness. I’ve accepted it and moved in with my life. But read the threads, ask the people. The truth is out there. I guess you had a small victory and that’s great. I hope we see more with the implementation of the ongoing Beta.

I've read the threads, I've been here for a while. But while others like to complain and make forum posts I try to give some feedback. Same time invested, more outcome.

Did you read how many people have put in a whole load of their time and effort without any result?
With that said I’m in no way implying that it’s a bad thing you’re doing, I’m merely pointing out how many people have tried only for it to fall on deaf ears. More power to you though.

[RealReasonHead]

Did you read how many people have put in a whole load of their time and effort without any result?

I know. My bug was so small, though, that I was surprised they decided to fix it. This bug is so much more severe. I believe that my bug report including a short video to quickly explain the issue clearly and a project file with the reproducible bug might be much easier to look at than pure text descriptions. If I was support, I'd try to focus on issues that are a) impacting the user experience and b) are easily reproducible. Can't fix a bug I can't find.

[guitfnky]

not submitting bug reports to RS is a guaranteed way to ensure nothing ever gets fixed. I get the cynicism, but it’s not like they completely ignore us, or we’d have stopped using Reason by now. doesn’t help to laugh when people do the right thing.

thank you all for attending this TED talk.

[ljekio]

Today I missed a note so I went into the pitch editor and moved it down a semitone.

But then the entire track sounded distorted or otherwise artifacted.

I tested this on a new file with only a single audio track and got the same thing.

Is this a new issue?

I think it's the shift algorithm here.
When you pitch a simple recording in its entirety, Reason used the default algorithm (allround).
When you enter the pitch editor, the algorithm changes to vocal.
Its good for voice, but bad for instruments with fast attack like drums and plucks.
For fast pitch shifting it you might use Polar, it is better suited for such instruments.
Or select by razor required space of clip and shift it individually on sequencer.

[Dabbler]

not submitting bug reports to RS is a guaranteed way to ensure nothing ever gets fixed. I get the cynicism, but it’s not like they completely ignore us, or we’d have stopped using Reason by now. doesn’t help to laugh when people do the right thing.

thank you all for attending this TED talk.

Can you link to the bug reports at RS?

[MrFigg]

not submitting bug reports to RS is a guaranteed way to ensure nothing ever gets fixed. I get the cynicism, but it’s not like they completely ignore us, or we’d have stopped using Reason by now. doesn’t help to laugh when people do the right thing.

thank you all for attending this TED talk.

If that was addressed to me because I laughed then please note that I also said he did the right thing. The laugh was cynicism based on previous efforts. The encouragement was genuine.

[Dabbler]

If this has been reported please delete.

I record audio bass parts on a standard acoustic guitar.

Then I transpose the track down -12 to get it to sound like bass.

I do this during development because it's easier than dragging out the actual bass guitar.

Today I missed a note so I went into the pitch editor and moved it down a semitone.

But then the entire track sounded distorted or otherwise artifacted.

I tested this on a new file with only a single audio track and got the same thing.

Is this a new issue?

Artifacts may occur, depending on source material and Reason’s Stretch and Transpose Type algorithm that you’ve chosen to be applied on your Bass/Guitar track. Have you tried changing the Stretch and Transpose Type algorithm?

Thanks for replying but I don't know how to choose an algorithm.
I'm using the Pitch Edit function from the sequencer to move a single note.
I suspect that transposing the entire track down -12 is a factor somehow.

[Dabbler]

OK well I did submit a request thru the "Contact us" link on the RS site.

[ljekio]

Moreover, unwanted artefacts can occur even with simple audio quantization. You need to understand that these are just stretching algorithms, and each of them has certain weak points.

[mcatalao]

Thanks for replying but I don't know how to choose an algorithm.
I'm using the Pitch Edit function from the sequencer to move a single note.
I suspect that transposing the entire track down -12 is a factor somehow.

Choosing an algorithm is important to generate fewer artefacts in the initial transposition. The other problem is that pitch edit is thought mainly for vocals, so it can generate more artifacts than expected.

To choose an algorithm, right click on the track and select time stretch algo to melodic.

Good luck!

[Dabbler]

Thanks for replying but I don't know how to choose an algorithm.
I'm using the Pitch Edit function from the sequencer to move a single note.
I suspect that transposing the entire track down -12 is a factor somehow.

Choosing an algorithm is important to generate fewer artefacts in the initial transposition. The other problem is that pitch edit is thought mainly for vocals, so it can generate more artifacts than expected.

To choose an algorithm, right click on the track and select time stretch algo to melodic.

Good luck!

Hmm, never knew that was there.
But, now simply opening the track in Pitch Edit causes it to distort.
I still think it's the -12 transpose causing the issue.

[guitfnky]

not submitting bug reports to RS is a guaranteed way to ensure nothing ever gets fixed. I get the cynicism, but it’s not like they completely ignore us, or we’d have stopped using Reason by now. doesn’t help to laugh when people do the right thing.

thank you all for attending this TED talk.

If that was addressed to me because I laughed then please note that I also said he did the right thing. The laugh was cynicism based on previous efforts. The encouragement was genuine.

your comment was what triggered the response, but it wasn’t really directed at anyone in particular, since there are lots of people ‘round here who feel that way. just want to be really sure we’re not moving up the timeline on others’ jadedness and cynicism. they’ll get there in time, I’m sure.

[mcatalao]

Hmm, never knew that was there.
But, now simply opening the track in Pitch Edit causes it to distort.
I still think it's the -12 transpose causing the issue.

An octave is WAY too long for an audio transpose, for any kind of instrument, IMHO.
I'd try different options, like passing that audio through Polar, which is great for realtime transposing and that kind of stuff, and pull it up to a track. Another option is to change the order of processes (first tune in pitch edit, commit that with a bounce in place, then transpose the full octave).

Reason works great transposing and stretching, but everything has it's limits.
You can also NOT enter into pitch edit mode. You can dial in the note you want to edit, isolate it from the rest of the clip, and remove or add a semitone (so that clip would be -13 or -11). I've done this a lot before we had pitch edit.

Oh, and btw, I wonder if in the context of a full mix the artifacts are so noticeable. Normally the artifacts are higher than the bass region, so you might as well filter them with an EQ or a multiband compressor or deesser.

Another option, is to transform the original guitar into midi, find a bass you like from you sound libraries and work with that.

If everything fails, the next thing would be to get Melodyne. It's the best of breed for this kind of thing
(thought there isn't a perfect solution, apart from using a real bass... an octave will have artifacts even in melodyne).
But for such big jump you really have to try it out!

Ah, another interesting idea, is to work with smaller transposes. For example imagine your song is in C and you do your thing in the guitar in C then you got it down to C-1. You could for example transpose the whole project to an E, record the bass line in the guitar on the E string (in e), undo the transpose in the full project, and then only transpose -4 in the bass part. I've done this for singer that couldn't record in lower or higher register for small differences, like 4 to 5 semitones. It works, but don't forget to save a version of the project because you might add additional artifacts where you don't want them.

But imho... There isn't a big difference between the two instruments, i really think you should get a bass... even a cheap Stagg or something like that will yeld a better result!

Good luck.

[Boombastix]

Only Serato and Zplane can do a one octave transpose reasonably well in my experience.

[Dabbler]

Hello

This is because opening the Pitch Editor will change the audio tracks transpose mode from melody or allaround to vocal, which doesn't sound good on instruments. I'd recommend copying a the note of the same pitch you want from somewhere else in the track and paste that in where you missed the note. Or cutting out the single note you played wrong and use the transpose feature you use to pitch down an octave to get the right note.
Best Regards,
Carl
Product Support
Reason Studios