Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[certifiedbeatz]

Not saying they did a great job with the release. But given it is a basic function for the new product, it needed to be in place before launch, right?

I actually think the order would have been better reversed. An announcement, blog post, or livestream explaining the way forward before launching the 11.3.7 update would have been more prudent in my opinion. I'm actually open to subscriptions in general. I just think there needs to be a strong value-proposition and a sense of goodwill in place in order for a subscription plan to be well-received. Now to be clear, I fully agree that a number users would vehemently object regardless. I just think that number would be far fewer.

Execution could have been better, no doubt. But I doubt they wanted to generate much anticipation among us the perpetuals since the product isn't even aimed at us. ‍♂️

As far as the target audience, I agree 100%. I guess us old guys should just be happy with our old licenses and go on our merry old ways until the next time we see a reason to buy that lines up with our old expectations.

We all being old fuddy duddies

[Social Exodus]

Did I read somewhere in here that Ignition Keys are going bye bye?

[EnochLight]

Please listen. Please try to understand.

Third Party Devs are NOT and have never been a competitor to Reason Studios (Propellerhead).

Matt, I know you have a long and storied history with RS/Propellerhead, and I know you're a dev with a fairly large Rack Extension offering, and I respect your opinion, but... seriously man - you're missing the plot. I can tell you right now that I have never bought any of your RE's, because things that Propellerhead included in Reason or RE's they've made satisfied my needs in a way that made me pass on RE's you've made, as well as RE's that plenty of others made. My situation is not unique. So yeah - I realize you don't see it that way - but you can bet the farm that other users have passed on third party dev RE's when looking at RS offerings in the past. That right there is competition.

I mean - this is common sense - you're all making instruments and effects and utility devices... there's bound to be some crossover.

To be clear, I realize that it wasn't like that when 6.5 launched and the RE SDK made its first appearance. Clearly 3rd party devs were filling a void that simply did not have a way of being filled by Propellerhead at the time. But as the SDK matured and more features crept in, and Props/RS started releasing more RE's, I think it's very safe to say that they became competition (and yes, everyone knows they get a cut of your RE sales and those sales help fund RS - that's business, man)!

I literally have zero interest into the "why" or the "how" the announcement of an optional sub service was handled, but I do have to ask you: if this optional service does bring more (read: new) customers into the Reason ecosystem, wouldn't that increase your chances of your RE's getting seen and possibly bought? As far as I know, R+ subscribers can still buy third part RE's, can't they (*EDIT: it was just pointed out to me by BonsaiMacKay that no, R+ subs cannot buy 3rd party RE's at launch, but it is coming soon)? Bonus question: when Reason 11 appeared and the Reason Rack Plugin started making appearances in various other DAW, did this help funnel any more sales into your coffers? If not, then perhaps a sub service might. If it did, then perhaps a sub service may help. Just shooting spitballs, here...

Did I read somewhere in here that Ignition Keys are going bye bye?

Physical USB Ignition Keys haven't shipped with Reason in many, many years. As such, it looks like they're ending support for them and shifting everything to virtual dongles for offline authorization.

[Faastwalker]

• RS releases the 11.3.7 update on Monday to generate hype. Who would be hyped? Existing users of course, since they would primarily be the ones who would see the updated preferences pane.

• RS releases a short video clip declaring that all questions would be answered in two days. Existing users, by and large, have been hoping for improvements to the core program. So naturally those users hoped the coming announcement would bring word of long-awaited features.

• Users tune in to the livestream only to find an announcement about a subscription plan, followed by the team excitedly talking about jingles, Zamboni's and labor unionization.

• RS changes their website to obscure links to the Shop and the option to buy a perpetual license.

Yeah, I don't think it had to go down like that. I don't think angry users are to be blamed for misunderstanding anything. I think a far better scenario would have been 3 months from now, to say "Here's Reason 12! We've worked hard to implement the features you've asked for. And now you have two ways to pay: If you like to buy your license as usual, please do so! But you can alternatively subscribe for $20/month if you want."

+1 Good summing.

+1. Exactly that.

[Catblack]

I made this patch in thor while reading over the comments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sng13wfn9oonb ... thor?dl=0

start the sequencer to play it...
a little meloncholy, maybe fitting. carry on

You are the true hero of this thread.

[arnigretar]

I made this patch in thor while reading over the comments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sng13wfn9oonb ... thor?dl=0

start the sequencer to play it...
a little meloncholy, maybe fitting. carry on

You are the true hero of this thread.

[BonsaiMacKay]

Please listen. Please try to understand.

Third Party Devs are NOT and have never been a competitor to Reason Studios (Propellerhead).

I literally have zero interest into the "why" or the "how" the announcement of an optional sub service was handled, but I do have to ask you: if this optional service does bring more (read: new) customers into the Reason ecosystem, wouldn't that increase your chances of your RE's getting seen and possibly bought? As far as I know, R+ subscribers can still buy third part RE's, can't they? Bonus question: when Reason 11 appeared and the Reason Rack Plugin started making appearances in various other DAW, did this help funnel any more sales into your coffers? If not, then perhaps a sub service might. If it did, then perhaps a sub service may help. Just shooting spitballs, here...

Actually, I believe JP clearly stated his point concerning competition but it disappeared from your quote. Concerning Reason Pus subscribers buying REs, nah, not in the foreseeable future. According to their own website Reason Pus FAQ, they cannot buy REs OR ReFills as of now, but that will be possible "at some point".

Screenshot 2021-01-28 at 20.31.40.png (190.13 KiB) Viewed 3462 times

[aftrshok99]

I literally have zero interest into the "why" or the "how" the announcement of an optional sub service was handled, but I do have to ask you: if this optional service does bring more (read: new) customers into the Reason ecosystem, wouldn't that increase your chances of your RE's getting seen and possibly bought? As far as I know, R+ subscribers can still buy third part RE's, can't they? Bonus question: when Reason 11 appeared and the Reason Rack Plugin started making appearances in various other DAW, did this help funnel any more sales into your coffers? If not, then perhaps a sub service might. If it did, then perhaps a sub service may help. Just shooting spitballs, here...

Actually, I believe JP clearly stated his point concerning competition but it disappeared from your quote. Concerning Reason Pus subscribers buying REs, nah, not in the foreseeable future. According to their own website Reason Pus FAQ, they cannot buy REs OR ReFills as of now, but that will be possible "at some point".

Screenshot 2021-01-28 at 20.31.40.png

I can go to the shop and click buy now on any RE or Refill. Not sure what they mean by the FAQ above?? Just confused. Maybe during the Reason+ trial it still looks at my R11 license in my account when I go to the shop to buy an RE.

[esselfortium]

Please listen. Please try to understand.

Third Party Devs are NOT and have never been a competitor to Reason Studios (Propellerhead).

Matt, I know you have a long and storied history with RS/Propellerhead, and I know you're a dev with a fairly large Rack Extension offering, and I respect your opinion, but... seriously man - you're missing the plot. I can tell you right now that I have never bought any of your RE's, because things that Propellerhead included in Reason or RE's they've made satisfied my needs in a way that made me pass on RE's you've made, as well as RE's that plenty of others made. My situation is not unique. So yeah - I realize you don't see it that way - but you can bet the farm that other users have passed on third party dev RE's when looking at RS offerings in the past. That right there is competition.

I mean - this is common sense - you're all making instruments and effects and utility devices... there's bound to be some crossover.

You've misread entirely. His point was that RS is indeed competition for third-party devs, but that it doesn't go both ways, as third-party devs are entirely at RS's mercy.

[Aosta]

Actually, I believe JP clearly stated his point concerning competition but it disappeared from your quote. Concerning Reason Pus subscribers buying REs, nah, not in the foreseeable future. According to their own website Reason Pus FAQ, they cannot buy REs OR ReFills as of now, but that will be possible "at some point".

'At some point'...wow, that is a bit open ended
I can totally understand why 3rd party devs are feeling shafted.

[WOO]

I find it rather funny that RS staff disappeared from the forum after one day of reiterating a couple of marketing slogans.
Shows their attitude towards criticism.

After the debacle of this shit storm of a roll out, they might all be worried about the viability of the company in the hands of the buffoons in charge. It won't be the first time a company that has had good products and loyal customers has been run into the ground by bad management.

[BonsaiMacKay]

Actually, I believe JP clearly stated his point concerning competition but it disappeared from your quote. Concerning Reason Pus subscribers buying REs, nah, not in the foreseeable future. According to their own website Reason Pus FAQ, they cannot buy REs OR ReFills as of now, but that will be possible "at some point".

Screenshot 2021-01-28 at 20.31.40.png

I can go to the shop and click buy now on any RE or Refill. Not sure what they mean by the FAQ above?? Just confused.

If you have a regular Reason licence, you can of course buy REs and ReFIlls. They mean here that Reason Pus subscribers, meaning those who ONLY have a subscription, cannot buy REs and ReFills. If you don't own a Reason Licence but have a subscription and can buy REs and ReFills, their very own system is broken. This, or whoever wrote their FAQ did not know what they were talking about.

[Melody303]

People have concerns about the future, but until then, there's nothing to do but wait to see how it unfolds. Pre-occupying oneself with ifs right now is a waste of time

If they go subscription only in the future, most of us would stop spending money on Reason and continue using it until we can't no more or simply move to a different tool and continue making music there. This would be unfortunate, both for us and for them, and it is obvious and I assume everyone at Reason Studios knows this, so I really doubt they will ever go that route. If they didn't know this, they definitely know now after the shit show yesterday with the stream comments and chat and the threads here.

So, which one is it?

[idliketoremainanon]

I've been a user since 2003 and there have been "Reason is obviously dying because they aren't doing what I want, it definitely won't last another few years" posts for this entire time. Nearly 20 years of this! I'm sure in another 20 years the doomsayers will still be posting the same thing as confidently as ever.

hehe yeah, true dat. been here since 2000 and before that in the ReBirth community and it's always been like this love it though.

ReBirth did die very soon tho BTW as a company I don't think they're dying. They just seem to be paving their way into being a plugin vendor only. If they want more users, it makes sense to make stuff that can be used in other DAWs instead of trying to get you to use theirs and their proprietary plugin format.

[sprinkles__]

{snip}

Great post. And agreed.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Not saying they did a great job with the release. But given it is a basic function for the new product, it needed to be in place before launch, right?

I actually think the order would have been better reversed. An announcement, blog post, or livestream explaining the way forward before launching the 11.3.7 update would have been more prudent in my opinion. I'm actually open to subscriptions in general. I just think there needs to be a strong value-proposition and a sense of goodwill in place, in order for a subscription plan to be well-received. Now to be clear, I fully agree that a number of users would vehemently object regardless. I just think that number would be far fewer.

Execution could have been better, no doubt. But I doubt they wanted to generate much anticipation among us the perpetuals since the product isn't even aimed at us. ‍♂️

As far as the target audience, I agree 100%. I guess us old guys should just be happy with our old licenses and go on our merry old ways until the next time we see a reason to buy that lines up with our old expectations.

Agree with everything you wrote there.

[sprinkles__]

If you are only a subscriber what would be the point in 'buying' an RE? Surely if you stopped subscribing you would have no way to use the RE. I expect they will offer REs as add-ons to the sub package eg. pay an extra 5 $/€/£ per month to use your choice of 3 REs or whatever. Giving subscribers permanent licenses for something that will be useless if subscription stops seems pointless, and they get to make more money this way as well. Add-ons will happen. No doubt about it. They already were halfway there with the RE package rent to own thing.

[PhillipOrdonez]

People have concerns about the future, but until then, there's nothing to do but wait to see how it unfolds. Pre-occupying oneself with ifs right now is a waste of time

If they go subscription only in the future, most of us would stop spending money on Reason and continue using it until we can't no more or simply move to a different tool and continue making music there. This would be unfortunate, both for us and for them, and it is obvious and I assume everyone at Reason Studios knows this, so I really doubt they will ever go that route. If they didn't know this, they definitely know now after the shit show yesterday with the stream comments and chat and the threads here.

So, which one is it?

Both.

[miscend]

I don’t like the direction things are going for Reason. Last upgrade I paid for was 10, and I’m now positively jumping ship. Craig Walsh at support won’t even let me authorize my computer because I reported it lost so many times 4 years ago. I emailed them a few weeks ago and they still won’t let me renew authorization. 4 years...2 different upgrade versions paid for...still no. That and now this...Lol I’m glad people are jumping ship and the last live stream was a joy to watch. Downvote galore!

The issue I have is that they're discontinuing Ignition Key support so you have even less options now. Once you exhaust the number of times you can renew a computer authorisation that's it your done. And you can lose computer authorisations from things like hard drive failures or even OS updates.

[PhillipOrdonez]

If you are only a subscriber what would be the point in 'buying' an RE? Surely if you stopped subscribing you would have no way to use the RE. I expect they will offer REs as add-ons to the sub package eg. pay an extra 5 $/€/£ per month to use your choice of 3 REs or whatever. Giving subscribers permanent licenses for something that will be useless if subscription stops seems pointless, and they get to make more money this way as well. Add-ons will happen. No doubt about it. They already were halfway there with the RE package rent to own thing.

Exactly

[ShelLuser]

Please listen. Please try to understand.

Third Party Devs are NOT and have never been a competitor to Reason Studios (Propellerhead).

Matt, I know you have a long and storied history with RS/Propellerhead, and I know you're a dev with a fairly large Rack Extension offering, and I respect your opinion, but... seriously man - you're missing the plot.

I think it's the opposite.

I can tell you right now that I have never bought any of your RE's, because things that Propellerhead included in Reason or RE's they've made satisfied my needs in a way that made me pass on RE's you've made, as well as RE's that plenty of others made.

Then you've been missing out.

Ammo 100LA, 400R and 1200BR. JP's modulation oscs and synths.

Thor has an option for 3 oscs. Ammo1200BR has 4. JP provides RE's which make sound design in Reason a lot better than the vanilla devices. In my opinion.

Heck, I own most of the JP RE's.

And that's the main point here: opinions, everyone has them. Just because you don't value their RE's and I do doesn't change anything!

I mean - this is common sense - you're all making instruments and effects and utility devices... there's bound to be some crossover.

The thing you're missing is that Reason Studios control the RE market. If they think an RE developer is entering or threatening their revenue then they reserve the right to kick them out. Oh wait, I worded that wrong

If they think that an RE developer is violating their code of conduct then they reserve the right to kick them out. Don't forget that they're selling a service, but just because you bought into it doesn't give you any guaranteed rights to your spot.

How is that (a fair) competition?

There is none! Because in the end Reason Studios always wins.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

Just took a cruise around the main website. If I was a 3rd party dev I'd be pretty pissed right now, its pretty gross.

[miscend]

Did I read somewhere in here that Ignition Keys are going bye bye?

viewtopic.php?p=537453#p537453

[MrFigg]

I don’t like the direction things are going for Reason. Last upgrade I paid for was 10, and I’m now positively jumping ship. Craig Walsh at support won’t even let me authorize my computer because I reported it lost so many times 4 years ago. I emailed them a few weeks ago and they still won’t let me renew authorization. 4 years...2 different upgrade versions paid for...still no. That and now this...Lol I’m glad people are jumping ship and the last live stream was a joy to watch. Downvote galore!

The issue I have is that they're discontinuing the Ignition Key so you have even less options now. Once you exhaust the number of times you can renew a computer authorisation that's it your done. And you can lose computer authorisations from things like hard drive failures or even OS updates.

Yep. I lost one from a pc meltdown and another because the pc ID changed somehow and I didn’t notice it until I tried to re-authorize it. Stupid.
Their Authorizer is crap as well while I’m at it.
They took away my Balance authorization option and now they’ve discontinued the IK. Seriously!!!

[VIVIsect]

Probably been covered already, but is there a good reason for them killing the Intro version of Reason? I mean besides the obvious (they want more money).

I just sold my Reason 11 license because I've found myself only using the RRP in Ableton Live (which has always been my primary DAW) with my purchased REs. I still have the Lite license they were giving away for a while, but was planning on buying 12 Intro, for the few extra devices. Guess that's not happening now. I will probably buy an 11 Intro license off of eBay and be done with it.