Interview with Ernst Nathorst-Böös 2003 - everything has happened as predicted

[QVprod]

To be fair. They only made one synth in that time span (4 upgrades; 6-9), Parsec. Two if you count Layers. All of the upgrades were basically DAW features ironically enough.

I think Rack Extensions was an excellent idea that just wasn’t executed well. Had there been no serious limitations 3rd parties likely would’ve jumped on it, because it seems everyone at least looked at it. Then they could’ve kept making the stock devices while having the 3rd party options. That’s almost what they have going with R+ now.

There was also PX7. That's the one I remember most because it struck me as wrong that it wasn't the main selling point of whatever version of Reason they were hawking at the time.

Edit: I forgot that they yanked it from the Shop when Algoritm came out. That's actually really messed up because there could theoretically come a time when it ceases to work and your only recourse will be to buy Algoritm.

Right. I forgot about PX7. So 2 synths within 4 upgrades across a span of about 10 years. That’s not a lot. We also got a free RE or 2 with every version, which are now all included as stock devices. They just weren’t synths… and yes The radical REs but those are of course not synths and REs I’d argue most aren’t too crazy about.

PX7 won’t stop working though. The whole point of The RE format is that it works with Reason like a native device. So if Reason works, PX7 will work as well.

[Proboscis]

Here's the thing - Reason was never 'just a rack'. There's always been a sequencer that allowed for musical composition, editing and 'live' recording of MIDI input.

in 20 years though, how many sequencer improvements have been introduced ? In 2021, it's still terribly lacking compared to just about every other DAW.

This seems to be something that they (Propellerhead/RS) have even begrudgingly accepted as an unspoken truth, with the rollout of RRP

[Jagwah]

Here's the thing - Reason was never 'just a rack'.

Certainly never was for me. The rack and sequencer always went hand in hand and one wouldn't have ever worked without the other. All this 'Reason is mainly the rack' is news to me and sounds like a cop out.

At least now it's been acknowledged as something that needs to be / will be worked on.

[moofi]

I´m actually pretty happy with Reason having become a DAW over the years along with RE and now VST on top. The way it is now it allows to work completely in one software, especially if it´s a software I prefer over other softwares handlingwise.

Prior, though close to the Release of Rack Extensions it felt like an increasingly emotional decision to keep working with Reason because already at the time the outside Reason world technically evolved quicklier in comparison, especially due to VST. Who knows if Reason would have been able to survive if it wasn´t for RE and now VST.
The jump it made in regards to possibilities was immense when RE were introduced.

[jlgrimes]

The sequencer features are sufficient up to a certain point or level as you put it, the lack of features compared to other DAWS makes different levels of workflow inefficient though. What features one user might not need to use, for example markers, there is no loss in your workflow not using even if they are available to use but someone else that would use them hasn't got the luxury of that choice because they don't exists, if markers make someone's workflow easier then the obvious thing is to enable them to use them. Track colours are completely necessary for mine and others workflow but the default is the same track colour for every track this is so you have the choice to use a track colour or not.

I was quiet scared by the mass of updates that some people want for the sequencer and reason at all, where will bring a big amount of bugs, that at the end the sequencer becomes a overloaded monster with capabilities most user doesn’t need and reason crash’s every third session!

Improving the sequencer doesn't necessarily mean adding bugs to the program.

And that said, they could take the Ableton approach (keep simple but very effective midi/arrange editing).

Ableton 10 years ago was considered a joke for detailed editing and finishing projects. It is not perfect but it hold competition well in doing songs and keeps most stuff fun. Almost every version they make minor tweaks and refinements to editing and IMO they are much better than they were than version 5. Yes some features upset some users but I think overall I hear very little criticism on Ableton's website.

[plaamook]

That deserves to be a sticky around here

Was he running the ship when they implemented Codemeter? Because that was the start of the shark-jumping.

That’s a great expression.

Fars I recall, yes.
We can all relax now. Ernst is long gone.

[electrofux]

Ernst, as much as i like him, was kindof deluded when he thought that DAW standards like Midi Out, Audio tracks and VST support and later Clip Launching was not a priority or should only be added if they found a unique solution.

Reason was allways a "DAW". heck Rebirth was a DAW in my book. I refer to them as software able to create songs with digital audio. People used Reason as a DAW. They had no audio, they triggered long samples in the NN-19. There was no midi out, they synced via Midi Clock or used obscure Remote Hacks. There was no VST, they used Rewire as complicated as it was (and made them dependant on the implementation of the Master) or let a host run alongside. All of these solutions were ALOT more scuffed than eg a ADAT Device in the rack or a rudimentary midi out module. So they rather had their users do scuffed stuff with Reason anyways. Thats why i never understood the perfectionism they put forth when it came to "me too" additions to reason. Additions that are standard already and the omission made them look antiquated and simply posed show stoppers for a lot of users.

It is the same with Clip Launchers. It is a standard that most DAWs have long adapted. It is the best way to jam with a Daw and use it in a live environment. It is the easiest entry into getting a rudimentary arrangement and make the jump from a cool loop to arranging a song, something alot of people struggle with. It would have fitted REason so well since they started with Pattern based approaches with Rebirth and it is found in Reason everywhere. Even the hardware market has adapted to that a long time ago and any proper controller features launchpad type functions. What can you do with those controllers in Reason? Trigger samples and turn stuff on and off. The inbuilt Launchpad codec is abysmal. And whatever you do in terms of Rack Extensions to emulate this even the SDK bricks you in not being able to do it (eg non remotable record button on players). To me it allways looked like an Ego thing. They much rather did something groundbreaking than copying standard stuff. Which is understandable but they overestimated their ability to put forth groundbreaking "new" or better standards and underestimated the time it consumes and in the end they were allways too slow.

Also this perfectionism lead them to finnish a thing and once it is out (when they deemed it perfect) it wasnt being iterated on. Thats why they very rarely update older devices even if it would have made alot of sense and benfitted the users more than something completely new. They allways thought better do something new and then be done with it when it is a time were it is harder and harder to put out something unique.

They wasted so much ressource into different ventures of which the Rack SDK the only thing was Reason oriented. Alihoopa, Reason Compact, Balance, Europa VST and what have you. And as of the last years one business model chased the other.

At the same time the existing users time after time asked for exactly the opposite. Getting the standards into Reason, make the stuff thats in better. And by the time they finally gotten around adding this stuff, these features weren't a BIG thing for newcomers. They might have even wondered why a Midi Out module is such a big thing for so many Reason users or VST Plugin support.

In the end it is a bubble thing.

[pquenin]

This is what I have said in another thread when R11 ans the RRP came out :

So there was a tendency to open Reason to the ouside world (RE was the first step, then internal VST support and now Reason as a plugin).
But now it seems that Reason Studios want to take back control on Reason and bring it to where it began : a rack of tools entirely controlled by Reason Studios. So I am not confident in the future of Reason as a standalone DAW, and external RE products.

I think that Reason Studios now regret their decision to have included Record into Reason, because they don't wan't Reason to become a full complete DAW.
I love the simplicity of the sequencer, and don't want it to grow too much.
But they can add some simple features little by little, like quantize note end, it don't cost too much and every little improvments will be appreciated.

[QVprod]

Here's the thing - Reason was never 'just a rack'. There's always been a sequencer that allowed for musical composition, editing and 'live' recording of MIDI input.

in 20 years though, how many sequencer improvements have been introduced ? In 2021, it's still terribly lacking compared to just about every other DAW.

This seems to be something that they (Propellerhead/RS) have even begrudgingly accepted as an unspoken truth, with the rollout of RRP

To be clear, at least in my post, I'm not saying Reason was just a rack. Just that the sequencer and being the best DAW in the traditional sense was never really prime focus. RPP makes sense in that regard. The sequencer was the attached portion that allowed you to make a finished song with the rack, but it was built from the ground up to be capable of being used wherever a user desired; within another DAW, as part of a hardware based setup, or standalone. I believe RPP is consistent with that, just run different form.

Sequencer improvements are definitely needed to continue to attract and keep DAW users though at this point. It's way too late in the game to only be a rack of devices. I wouldn't new additions to compete with S1, Cubase, Logic...etc... but Ableton (sequencer not session view) or Machine definitely.