Very disappointed with Reason 12 upgrade

[guitfnky]

we want R12 to be a poor experience for everyone so they all take our side? get real.

all anyone wants is a solid, stable piece of software. we’re not looking to mingle tears.

[dvdrtldg]

Reason framework is not flexible enough to do changes demanded by modern standards. It needs to rewrite the code that is impossible.
So you should not expect to cure problems but to get painkillers.

WRONG. They have rewritten the code.

All you're seeing right now are the sorts of glitches that can happen during this type of switch to GPU acceleration.

The only difference is that teams don't usually share the codebase at this state.

There's nothing out of the ordinary here, other than this period taking place under public scrutiny.

Exactly

[Pepin]

You don't understand that Reason is a dead meat.
The problem you mentioned is a very deep programming issue concerning highres graphics. They can't come up with solution within weeks. That's why they delay all the upgrades.
RS is in a programming trap. They're not able to match your expectation because more and more new issues. I'm really sorry for them, but that's reality.
Reason framework is not flexible enough to do changes demanded by modern standards. It needs to rewrite the code that is impossible.
So you should not expect to cure problems but to get painkillers.

I've been critical of R12 myself, but this is unfounded nonsense. An issue that's not solved "within weeks" does not indicate a fatal flaw in the codebase.

The existence of the rack plugin alone shows to me that the codebase is farely flexible.

And for perspective, the 12.2.1 update did solve the biggest graphical issues I was having. So they are making progress.

The root issue is simply that R12 was released too early. Delaying the October update was the right move, since refusing to delay is what got them into this mess in the first place.

There's no need to catastrophize.

[EnochLight]

we want R12 to be a poor experience for everyone so they all take our side? get real.

That’s a stretch. No one ever suggested that.

[guitfnky]

we want R12 to be a poor experience for everyone so they all take our side? get real.

That’s a stretch. No one ever suggested that.

except that’s exactly what was suggested in the post just before this response. ‍♂️

[Neo]

Continue to hold SHIFT when dragging and dropping to avoid that flickering.
-
On a side note. I'd like to collapse <Browser folders> again.
My New Favorites Lists are out of control lol. ..Good excuse to start deleting/clean up REs/VSTs

[EnochLight]

That’s a stretch. No one ever suggested that.

except that’s exactly what was suggested in the post just before this response. ‍♂️

Fake news.

[kbard]

Yeah well, I feel your pain but I can also see how difficult this must be for Reason Studios to "fix", since I cannot recreate the issue you're having on my machine. In fact, doing exactly what you're doing works just fine with no glitches, just like 11 and earlier versions:


What are your system specs? Do you have Hyperthreading off? Is Reason actually assigned to your GPU?

No you don't feel for me at all it 's clear because you would read what I wrote and wouldn't add subtle passive aggression toward me. I knew this would happen which is why I asked to not steer this.

In fact (in fact, in fact) other people mentioned having same problem. And if you truly wanted to understand the issue you would realize that later in the thread it was revealed it's not the Shift button, it's not the Hyperthreading (for Christ sake).

It's the Autogrouping feature which need to be turned off in Reason 12 in order for this to work the same way it worked in Reason 9,10 and 11. It's affecting half sized rack devices. Has it been mentioned in some changelog ? No!

You probably have this Autogrouping turned off and so it's working for you. You would realize this if you truly wanted to "feel" for me by reading the thread with understanding.

Genius.

I am having a problem, I went so long to record a video and waste more time. But hey. EnochLight doesn't have this problem. It must be me. Even though I described everything in detail and asked to be helpful instead of subtly sneaky. And other people confirmed having same issue and tried to help me.

Which is what happened plenty of people helped. I thank you to all and everyone.

You know what. I have had enough of this toxicity past few months. First there are problems with Reason 12 upgrade, then there are people like you mister. Yeah I noticed you. You seem to be really sneaky here and historically on KVR toward anyone who isn't "your way". Really sneaky in a really subtle way. I don't understand how person like you can be a moderator.

But ok it's my computer.

I am going to close this nonsense and ask forum owner to delete my profile. I hope you're not forum owner because then I am screwed.

I have had enough of this toxic behavior toward anyone who have problems or isn't blindly justifying every Reasonstudios developer moves they do.

Obviously I am now stuck and will wait until they polish Reason 12.

Spare me "you got me wrong" card.

This place went bad exactly because of people like you. Forum owner which allowed you being a moderator seriously need to rethink your forum position.

Yes as you can see I am frustrated with people like you. As if it isn't enough I posted clear video, post my specs and method of getting to this point waste time and have weird problems with 12 now I have to dissect my whole life, explain exactly that I am not new into this and post a health card just for you to allow me a benefit of a doubt that Reason 12 might have some issues.

You are most definitely not fair sir.

Goodbye evryone and thanks for helping me out. I will ask owner to delete my account. If that's possible. Hey at least some of these vile guys won't have to do more "damage control" tasks..

[kbard]

Does anyone know to whom I can fill or send quality complaint ? How do I reach forum owner? It's not clear to me.

Edit: I sent pm to joey - he seems to be forum admin. I guess.

Thanks again and goodbye.

[avasopht]

A tiny change in the code, or order you machine loads drivers could flip it so that it becomes a problem you and many others experience.

Let it happen first. Now it looks like complaining grows into terrorizing. Some would just like it to become everyone's problem to impose their view.

WRONG. This is based on my experience in tackling these types of bugs, not mere complaining or whatnot.

What we're seeing with R12 has all the hallmarks of memory corruption. It could be as simple as a miscalculation of buffer sizes. Some of the other bugs I've seen hints at a number of miscalculations in graphics/UI related code.

I've worked on a codebase that had a memory corruption bug for months before I joined, but it only caused noticeable bugs after I built a new GUI system.

It took me a week or two to hunt down, but it was all intermittent bugs that would cause random graphical glitches. Even I was convinced my GUI system must have caused the bug.

Turns out it was caused by old code that was just lucky nothing occupied the splash zone of its access violations.

[avasopht]

I am having a problem, I went so long to record a video and waste more time. But hey. EnochLight doesn't have this problem. It must be me. Even though I described everything in detail and asked to be helpful instead of subtly sneaky. And other people confirmed having same issue and tried to help me.

Which is what happened plenty of people helped. I thank you to all and everyone.

You know what. I have had enough of this toxicity past few months. First there are problems with Reason 12 upgrade, then there are people like you mister. Yeah I noticed you. You seem to be really sneaky here and historically on KVR toward anyone who isn't "your way". Really sneaky in a really subtle way. I don't understand how person like you can be a moderator.

But ok it's my computer.

I am going to close this nonsense and ask forum owner to delete my profile. I hope you're not forum owner because then I am screwed.

I have had enough of this toxic behavior toward anyone who have problems or isn't blindly justifying every Reasonstudios developer moves they do.

Obviously I am now stuck and will wait until they polish Reason 12.

Spare me "you got me wrong" card.

This place went bad exactly because of people like you. Forum owner which allowed you being a moderator seriously need to rethink your forum position.

Yes as you can see I am frustrated with people like you. As if it isn't enough I posted clear video, post my specs and method of getting to this point waste time and have weird problems with 12 now I have to dissect my whole life, explain exactly that I am not new into this and post a health card just for you to allow me a benefit of a doubt that Reason 12 might have some issues.

You are most definitely not fair sir.

Goodbye evryone and thanks for helping me out. I will ask owner to delete my account. If that's possible. Hey at least some of these vile guys won't have to do more "damage control" tasks..

You misunderstood. He's explaining why this is a hard bug to fix (because if they can't reproduce the bug they have no means to hunt it down or know if and change in code has fixed it), and is not making out there's no bug.

He asks for your configuration, not because he's blaming you but because (and I say this as a developer of 23 years) that's the RIGHT thing to do.

The bug might only be triggered with a particular system or program configuration.

That's not blaming you or making out the bug doesn't exist.

I nearly made the same mistake you did until I reread his comment.

[orthodox]

Let it happen first. Now it looks like complaining grows into terrorizing. Some would just like it to become everyone's problem to impose their view.

WRONG. This is based on my experience in tackling these types of bugs, not mere complaining or whatnot.

That experience in tackling bugs would better be used for tackling bugs, not for fortune-telling. I don't see why I should feel concerned. My actual experience tells me that everything is working fine for me.

[avasopht]

WRONG. This is based on my experience in tackling these types of bugs, not mere complaining or whatnot.

That experience in tackling bugs would better be used for tackling bugs, not for fortune-telling. I don't see why I should feel concerned. My actual experience tells me that everything is working fine for me.

You've misunderstood.

That's not fortune telling.

It's been explained to you that the bugs that don't affect you now may affect you in the future, so although you don't understand why they need to be fixed, there's a technical Reason why it's important to you that you just don't understand.

But you seem to be getting needlessly defensive and argumentative (from a position of ignorance) when I wasn't even trying to get into an argument.

That doesn't make any sense and is a pretty childish way to respond ‍♂️

[plaamook]

Am I the only person round here that’s tired of how the word ‘toxic’ gets thrown around?
As soon as we’re not all holding hands and visualising dancing sparkling unicorns it’s ‘toxic’.
I’ve never seen such a bunch of generally helpful people as I’ve seen here on Rt. I personally owe quite a lot to you all.
It seems to me that the only ‘toxic’ element that gets brought in is from the people who use that stupid term in the first place, and it’s usually just a misunderstanding.
In this case it absolutely is.

[plaamook]

Anyway I checked and Cmd Shift G toggles grouping on and off and it’s a Reason shortcut, not custom. So there. Problem solved.
But I guess the Op has resigned by now so who cares.

[avasopht]

Am I the only person round here that’s tired of how the word ‘toxic’ gets thrown around?
As soon as we’re not all holding hands and visualising dancing sparkling unicorns it’s ‘toxic’.
I’ve never seen such a bunch of generally helpful people as I’ve seen here on Rt. I personally owe quite a lot to you all.
It seems to me that the only ‘toxic’ element that gets brought in is from the people who use that stupid term in the first place, and it’s usually just a misunderstanding.
In this case it absolutely is.

Yeah, and really does a disservice to people at the end of actually toxic behaviour.

One guy, before his 15th post declared this to be the most toxic forum he's ever visited. I had to wonder if it was because every forum he visits gets a little bit more toxic the minute he joins

[avasopht]

Anyway I checked and Cmd Shift G toggles grouping on and off and it’s a Reason shortcut, not custom. So there. Problem solved.
But I guess the Op has resigned by now so who cares.

Could be useful for anyone who has that problem in the future

[Pepin]

A tiny change in the code, or order you machine loads drivers could flip it so that it becomes a problem you and many others experience.

Let it happen first. Now it looks like complaining grows into terrorizing. Some would just like it to become everyone's problem to impose their view.

I can understand being frustrated with the negativity here at times, but there's no "terrorizing" going on, and no one is wishing for others to experience bugs.
At the end of the day, RS has data on which bugs are most prevalent and has determined some are widespread and significant enough to prioritize over features.
They're not making decisions based on which individual complains loudest on RT. So it's better to view such complaints as harmless venting rather than as a threat to Reason that needs to be shutdown.

[orthodox]

That experience in tackling bugs would better be used for tackling bugs, not for fortune-telling. I don't see why I should feel concerned. My actual experience tells me that everything is working fine for me.

You've misunderstood.

That's not fortune telling.

It's been explained to you that the bugs that don't affect you now may affect you in the future, so although you don't understand why they need to be fixed, there's a technical Reason why it's important to you that you just don't understand.

But you seem to be getting needlessly defensive and argumentative (from a position of ignorance) when I wasn't even trying to get into an argument.

That doesn't make any sense and is a pretty childish way to respond ‍♂️

I am not that stupid to suggest that the bugs should not be fixed. Of course they should be.

I was arguing the idea (expressed above) that R12 should be somehow recalled globally in favor of a more stable version until the problems are solved, which would make everyone hostages of those experiencing issues. You responded to my comment so I thought you supported the idea. Do you?

[avasopht]

I am not that stupid to suggest that the bugs should not be fixed. Of course they should be.

I was arguing the idea (expressed above) that R12 should be somehow recalled globally in favor of a more stable version until the problems are solved, which would make everyone hostages of those experiencing issues. You responded to my comment so I thought you supported the idea. Do you?

Ah, my bad, I had completely missed the context.

I don't think it needs to be recalled at all. All that's needed is clear communication (and to allow R+ users to use R11 if they want to).

[nooomy]

I was part of the beta test and had a bad bad feeling when i saw the first release candidate.

I tried flag it but none listen, people even down voted my thread and were laughing at my criticism.

That's the reason you don't have fanboys do beta testing.

[challism]

Does anyone know to whom I can fill or send quality complaint ? How do I reach forum owner? It's not clear to me.

Edit: I sent pm to joey - he seems to be forum admin. I guess.

Thanks again and goodbye.

I'm going to guess this isn't the last time we hear from him.

Don't like it here? OK. The easiest thing in the world is to simply not come back anymore. Don't login. Don't respond. I don't understand the need to make a big, dramatic announcement like this.

Anyway.... lets hope RS soon figure out these issues. And I do sympathize with them in trying to troubleshoot, identify and fix these bugs, as the bugs are not affecting all systems across the board. I also sympathize with users who are experiencing a lot of issues. It's a tough situation, to be sure. Let's just hope it gets solved soon.

[DaveyG]

I'm going to guess this isn't the last time we hear from him.

I think it's not the first time either.

But I do think that any forum user should have the right to have their account deleted if they request it.

[Popey]

With reference to the term toxic I definitely do not think rt is and personally have found people very helpful on here. Not reason related but related to this thread (and Internet threads in general) is the way we as humans like to group ourselves with others that we identify with. I think this is why you have people saying about fanboys etc and putting ourselves into different groups (eg reason is terrible, reason is great, reason is good but has a few issues now etc). It causes issues as we value our groups opinions over others and add more value to others that see things are way.

Now you may be thinking what drivel and why post this but my reason is simple and wish you to ask yourself one question which is "do you want reason to be better and work stable". If the answer is yes then you have most probably just put yourself into the same group as others you may not agree with and have a shared goal.

Just trying to point out that that if we stop and think we may find we actually have a lot in common with people we may have arguments with.

[PhillipOrdonez]

With reference to the term toxic I definitely do not think rt is and personally have found people very helpful on here. Not reason related but related to this thread (and Internet threads in general) is the way we as humans like to group ourselves with others that we identify with. I think this is why you have people saying about fanboys etc and putting ourselves into different groups (eg reason is terrible, reason is great, reason is good but has a few issues now etc). It causes issues as we value our groups opinions over others and add more value to others that see things are way.

Now you may be thinking what drivel and why post this but my reason is simple and wish you to ask yourself one question which is "do you want reason to be better and work stable". If the answer is yes then you have most probably just put yourself into the same group as others you may not agree with and have a shared goal.

Just trying to point out that that if we stop and think we may find we actually have a lot in common with people we may have arguments with.

ArRrr nO waY! You iz bAd anD I iz GuD!!!!

This forum is full of kind people who are very nice, and then a couple of apples. My phone decided the word I wanted to write was not what I meant, but apples. I'll leave it as such cause I don't want to be BaNneD