Giving R12/R+ some love

[scotward57]

I was one of those who hated even the idea of R+ when I first heard about it. But when the $99 Black Friday deal dropped, I couldn't help but take the bait.

Algoritm, Bassline generator, Pattern generator. Combinator v2, Mimic, all of them very useful! Especially Algorithm. I was expecting a DX7 clone, but it's way better than that.

The players I do love and for the most part, RS find a way to implement song idea creators without delving too deep into Band-In-A-Box Cheez territory that was invented by that Canadian software company PG Music.

I'd like to see more sound packs focusing on new devices vs. the long-outdated cheez marketing of fake genres and cultural hip-dippery.

But I digress. R12/R+ is still a winner. Props to the DSP guru Peter for really perfecting the art of developing devices you didn't know you needed. Was very surprised by Algoritm - by far the most useful and best sounding take on FM synthesis I'd ever heard.

[crimsonwarlock]

I was expecting a DX7 clone, but it's way better than that.

A DX7 can do things that are impossible with Algoritm because it lacks certain features the DX7 has, like the eight-part envelopes and the different keyboard scaling curves for each operator.

RS had a DX7 clone rack extension called PX7, but that one was discontinued. I have Algoritm, and it's a great synth that in turn can do things a DX7 can't obviously do. However, I'm happy to have grabbed PX7 just before they took it out of the shop, especially as I used to have a real DX7 for decades (I sold it when NI released their FM-7 plugin).

Thinking a bit more about this, Reason+ will make it near impossible to discontinue anything from now on. One of the 'features' of Plus is that you can unsubscribe for a while and then resubscribe later when you want to use it again. But if something gets discontinued during that period, your projects might break. With the perpetual license, at least I have every rack extension that I had before, including the ones they discontinued. My projects will always work.

For backward compatibility, which has always been an important argument of RS, they can NEVER take anything out of Reason+, as I see it.

[Faastwalker]

I was one of those who hated even the idea of R+ when I first heard about it. But when the $99 Black Friday deal dropped, I couldn't help but take the bait.

Same situation here. Hate subs, but it's Reason and it was $99 when Reason+ first dropped. Back then I was on Reason 10 having skipped the lackluster 11 update. I also had very few Reason Studios Players and around half of the RS RE's. The main recent additions I had purchased were Complex-1 and Fraktion, which are both bloody amazing. So gained a fair bit by going + at the time. More so since 12 dropped and the fabulous new Bassline Generator. Will I renew subscription? In the balance but I probably would at this stage. Even if it cost me $199 for the year instead of the $99 I initially paid. Time's up March 2022

I'd like to see more sound packs focusing on new devices vs. the long-outdated cheez marketing of fake genres and cultural hip-dippery.

I agree. The sound packs are the least enticing aspect of the subscription for me. And they are not all that exciting, so I'm perplexed by the amount of focus that has been put on these as an enticement to subscribe. Sign of the times I guess. I don't get it at all though! :-/

[carllackey]

i'm very happy with r+ and reason 12. especially the players. i'm a guitar player and i dont know music theory so they're a godsend for me!

[Baylo]

Thinking a bit more about this, Reason+ will make it near impossible to discontinue anything from now on. One of the 'features' of Plus is that you can unsubscribe for a while and then resubscribe later when you want to use it again. But if something gets discontinued during that period, your projects might break. With the perpetual license, at least I have every rack extension that I had before, including the ones they discontinued. My projects will always work.

For backward compatibility, which has always been an important argument of RS, they can NEVER take anything out of Reason+, as I see it.

I believe this was actually one of the (if not the only) reason why PX-7 was discontinued - it was licensed and RS couldn't guarantee that it would be perpetually available, so it was withdrawn around the same time as the launch of R+. I think James or Matthias posted about it at the time.

[crimsonwarlock]

I believe this was actually one of the (if not the only) reason why PX-7 was discontinued - it was licensed and RS couldn't guarantee that it would be perpetually available, so it was withdrawn around the same time as the launch of R+. I think James or Matthias posted about it at the time.

Yep, I recently stumbled upon that whole story. At the time I was planning to get PX7 and snagged it when they dropped the price for the last time. There was already talk about a new FM synth coming, so I somehow sensed that it could mean PX7 going away (as it did).

Fortunately, it means that kind of licensing deals to get stuff developed is out now, with Reason+.

[joeyluck]

I was one of those who hated even the idea of R+ when I first heard about it. But when the $99 Black Friday deal dropped, I couldn't help but take the bait.

Same situation here. Hate subs, but it's Reason and it was $99 when Reason+ first dropped. Back then I was on Reason 10 having skipped the lackluster 11 update. I also had very few Reason Studios Players and around half of the RS RE's. The main recent additions I had purchased were Complex-1 and Fraktion, which are both bloody amazing. So gained a fair bit by going + at the time. More so since 12 dropped and the fabulous new Bassline Generator. Will I renew subscription? In the balance but I probably would at this stage. Even if it cost me $199 for the year instead of the $99 I initially paid. Time's up March 2022

I'd like to see more sound packs focusing on new devices vs. the long-outdated cheez marketing of fake genres and cultural hip-dippery.

I agree. The sound packs are the least enticing aspect of the subscription for me. And they are not all that exciting, so I'm perplexed by the amount of focus that has been put on these as an enticement to subscribe. Sign of the times I guess. I don't get it at all though! :-/

I think Reason Studios could learn a lot from Spitfire Labs. I really like the cool and unique sample-based stuff. They get very creative with a small set of samples and make very usable instruments. There's a story behind each and they just feel more involved.

[Billy+]

[scotward57]

i'm very happy with r+ and reason 12. especially the players. i'm a guitar player and i dont know music theory so they're a godsend for me!

What's funny is that there was a time when adding the arpeggiator back during the Reason 4 release was considered to be a huge controversy.

But all these years later, it's these players that are wanted/envied by other DAW users. For example, I do like Logic's MIDI Fx, but they don't have the character that Reason Players do.

Yet someone is going to have to explain to me why Reason synths don't get more love and respect outside the Reason community. They get 15 minutes of recognition and somehow they sink right back into the rack, so to speak.

[scotward57]

For backward compatibility, which has always been an important argument of RS, they can NEVER take anything out of Reason+, as I see it.

Unless, of course, someone invents some screwy concept, like having to subscribe to a subscription. I promise you, if something comes along that past prime adults think the kiddies are into, they'll be attempted to coattail it.

[scotward57]

I think Reason Studios could learn a lot from Spitfire Labs. I really like the cool and unique sample-based stuff. They get very creative with a small set of samples and make very usable instruments. There's a story behind each and they just feel more involved.

Obviously, Spitfire has their own niche and are very passionate about what they do. I don't see RS as that being their thing, though. Creating new devices within their virtual studio fantasy world is where it's at for them.

Maybe this sound pack thing might have that potential, hard to say.

[scotward57]

I agree. The sound packs are the least enticing aspect of the subscription for me. And they are not all that exciting, so I'm perplexed by the amount of focus that has been put on these as an enticement to subscribe. Sign of the times I guess. I don't get it at all though! :-/

I heard there are now over 300 of these things. The companion app feels like going to Walmart.

LOL maybe they should turn the companion app into a pawn shop, where there are only a limited number of sound packs (like 5 or less) and each Reason subscriber shows up ready to wheel and deal. Or maybe on a slow month where you can't pay the R+ $20 rent, you can pawn Subtractor for a month.

[joeyluck]

I think Reason Studios could learn a lot from Spitfire Labs. I really like the cool and unique sample-based stuff. They get very creative with a small set of samples and make very usable instruments. There's a story behind each and they just feel more involved.

Obviously, Spitfire has their own niche and are very passionate about what they do. I don't see RS as that being their thing, though. Creating new devices within their virtual studio fantasy world is where it's at for them.

Maybe this sound pack thing might have that potential, hard to say.

Yeah I'm taking about for sound packs.

[jamespember]

I agree. The sound packs are the least enticing aspect of the subscription for me. And they are not all that exciting, so I'm perplexed by the amount of focus that has been put on these as an enticement to subscribe. Sign of the times I guess. I don't get it at all though! :-/

I heard there are now over 300 of these things. The companion app feels like going to Walmart.

Our thinking around the volume of sound packs is that, Reason's sound bank should never feel stale and static. We've historically rarely added patches to the Factory Sound Banks, but with Sound Packs we add new patches every day. We know it's not for everyone, but we think it's pretty cool to have a little burst of potential inspiration to check out on a daily basis.

[djsmex]

I think if RS added reason+ annual subscription to the reward store I would get it but like others I prefer owning REs and Reason in the knowledge everything will just keep working even if discontinued. This is important if you own and use discontinued REs.
I'd also like to see Reason upgrades added to the rewards store.

[ekss]

I was expecting a DX7 clone, but it's way better than that.

With the perpetual license, at least I have every rack extension that I had before, including the ones they discontinued. My projects will always work.

Correct me if in wrong, isn’t this true for R+ too? I mean if I have a R+ subscription and buy Rack Extensions, I will still own the REs if I pause the subscription and pick it up at a later stage.

[crimsonwarlock]

Correct me if in wrong, isn’t this true for R+ too? I mean if I have a R+ subscription and buy Rack Extensions, I will still own the REs if I pause the subscription and pick it up at a later stage.

This was about what happened with PX7.... it's not there in the subscription, right? The whole thing about Reason+ is that you get EVERYTHING that Reason Studios have released.... except stuff that gets discontinued.

[jamespember]

Correct me if in wrong, isn’t this true for R+ too? I mean if I have a R+ subscription and buy Rack Extensions, I will still own the REs if I pause the subscription and pick it up at a later stage.

This was about what happened with PX7.... it's not there in the subscription, right? The whole thing about Reason+ is that you get EVERYTHING that Reason Studios have released.... except stuff that gets discontinued.

No, because Reason Studios never owned PX7. It was released under our name under license, but we didn't own it. That's why we removed it (together with the A-List Rack Extensions) prior to the Reason+ launch—to avoid any confusion. This is also why we likely won't do anything like that again, so the promise of Reason+ continues to be true, that you get every device we ever make.

[crimsonwarlock]

No, because Reason Studios never owned PX7.

James, I know. That was precisely what it was about, that such license agreements might mess with Reason+ subscription model.

The second message in this thread I wrote:

Thinking a bit more about this, Reason+ will make it near impossible to discontinue anything from now on.

[ekss]

Correct me if in wrong, isn’t this true for R+ too? I mean if I have a R+ subscription and buy Rack Extensions, I will still own the REs if I pause the subscription and pick it up at a later stage.

This was about what happened with PX7.... it's not there in the subscription, right? The whole thing about Reason+ is that you get EVERYTHING that Reason Studios have released.... except stuff that gets discontinued.

What I mean is that if you bought PX7 and switched to R+ you still have the PX7 - only that new user can’t buy it. Same with other 3rd party REs you can buy them and they will stay in your account.

[jamespember]

No, because Reason Studios never owned PX7.

James, I know. That was precisely what it was about, that such license agreements might mess with Reason+ subscription model.

The second message in this thread I wrote:

Thinking a bit more about this, Reason+ will make it near impossible to discontinue anything from now on.

Yep, absolutely! Reason+ makes it important that we try keep that promise of longevity.

[jamespember]

This was about what happened with PX7.... it's not there in the subscription, right? The whole thing about Reason+ is that you get EVERYTHING that Reason Studios have released.... except stuff that gets discontinued.

What I mean is that if you bought PX7 and switched to R+ you still have the PX7 - only that new user can’t buy it. Same with other 3rd party REs you can buy them and they will stay in your account.

Yep, exactly. Reason+ doesn't remove anything from your account in terms of licenses or anything you own.

[crimsonwarlock]

What I mean is that if you bought PX7 and switched to R+ you still have the PX7...

You're right, but that is not relevant. If PX7 was still here, then Reason+ users didn't have to buy it, it would be included with everything else. Next, if the licensing issue came around then RS wouldn't be allowed to keep it bundled, and it would disappear for every Reason+ user. We as perpetual license owners have PX7 because we bought it separately.

Well, James already stated how it is.

[jamespember]

What I mean is that if you bought PX7 and switched to R+ you still have the PX7...

You're right, but that is not relevant. If PX7 was still here, then Reason+ users didn't have to buy it, it would be included with everything else. Next, if the licensing issue came around then RS wouldn't be allowed to keep it bundled, and it would disappear for every Reason+ user. We as perpetual license owners have PX7 because we bought it separately.

Well, James already stated how it is.

Yep, but to be extra clear: we discontinued it before the launch precisely for this reason - so we would avoid any licensing issues in the future. The only products that are in Reason+ right now are owned by us, and as far as I know, we've never discontinued a Rack device that was made and owned by Reason Studios. So I highly doubt this will ever be an issue again, because we cleaned this all up prior to the launch.

[ekss]

What I mean is that if you bought PX7 and switched to R+ you still have the PX7...

You're right, but that is not relevant. If PX7 was still here, then Reason+ users didn't have to buy it, it would be included with everything else. Next, if the licensing issue came around then RS wouldn't be allowed to keep it bundled, and it would disappear for every Reason+ user. We as perpetual license owners have PX7 because we bought it separately.

Well, James already stated how it is.

It’s relievant because they did discontinue it before the launch to ensure the scenario you describe won’t happen, like James point out above. And to point out that what you buy in the shop will stay on your account, even if you stop subscription for a while.

Now wasn’t this thread about giving R12 some love?
I absolutely love the crispness of HD, mimic and c2 both seams super powerful after the few minutes I’ve used them so far. It runs without any problem on my computer so I’m very happy