it is here, go look at Props website now !!!!!!!!!

JNeffLind · 22 Jan 2015

joeyluck wrote:The video is pretty great though!

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNP5TJblkFQ<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNP5TJblkFQ

Of course there will be some haters, but I think it is done very well.
Showcases all of their products (Reason, Discover, Figure, Take) all in one interesting video.

I wish them success at NAMM!

What I hate is seemingly throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I can see the logic in prioritizing adding more "hands" to the process as opposed to adding "muscle" to one set of hands (features in the core program). Not saying I agree with it, but an argument can be made. I have to agree wholeheartedly though that this is a well done piece of marketing and had the desired effect on me. It will inspire people and get more people on board. Let's hope that in the long term this is an end around to making our community grow.

I wish all Props all the best, though for now I'll stay with R7. (they really need to do something about copyright issues on the site at least)

Ostermilk · 22 Jan 2015

selig wrote: [Cynical mode: ON]

OTOH…
What if this IS the result of serious market research?!?

This is the crux of it really.

To me it looks like pitching up a nice big banner ad on the forest floor of the cyber jungle, about as useful as having a nicely tended bowling green laid in some random part of the amazon rain forest.

Why would I go there? For the content, what content?

But for others it may well represent something else that I can't see or worse something I don't even want to see.

I'll get the newsletter I suppose and my account will tell me licenses need updating but everything about new Refill products and RE's I might want I'll probably learn from the forum as before, but it will be this forum and not their own.

No skin off my nose but they've put the onus on themselves to reach out to existing customers like myself rather than attracting me to their own domain.

All of which may be great for them if there actually IS a new demographic they are appealing too, but for me now they've got make an effort to tell me about something that I might want to buy.

Good luck to them but in truth what they end up doing now is less interesting to me than who wins the latest season of Celebrity Big Brother UK, and as you might imagine that's not very high on my list of priority interests either.

X1Lo · 22 Jan 2015

So I have been drooling over a CZ-5000 the past couple of days and remembered thor demystified has a tutorial on the phase osc. The search box brought up the links... but the article was not there :frown: Hopefully this is just a mix up on the website, because I would be majorly bummed if those disappeared. My fear is that maybe propellerhead thought that the series might intimidate new users, so they axed it. Although I think that is unlikely(but what do I know).

22 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:OK, but intent and effect are two different things. Of course PH themselves are not advocating bad habits, but that's what the marketing agency has come up, and they would be well aware of this.

EnochLight wrote:
Fair point, but do you feel a marketing agency that comes up with commercials showing family SUV's being driven off-road through a stream or backwoods trail are suggesting people drive their SUV's off of the road and go crazy in a national park or my neighbor's lawn?

There's just a certain amount of end-user/consumer responsibility that one must take when these sort of promos are translated into real-world use. Again, I don't think anyone would walk around with their $800 USD smartphone out in the open in their hands with headphones on if they didn't feel safe doing so.

We've been carrying around expensive electronics in our pockets and in our hands for almost 36 years when the first Walkman appeared.

Yeah, I do agree with that.

The trouble with marketeers is that they market a lifestyle and a freedom few people will ever actually experience. Few people who buy cars do anything but sit in traffic jams.

Few people who use Take will do anything but wait for their uploads or downloads to complete.

"Large wave files? On a 4G tariff? In England? With EE's reputation? What were they thinking?"

zeebot · 22 Jan 2015

Jagwah wrote: I feel that but chill dude, Reason is still what it was before. If there is one thing I have learnt while dealing with Props it's to be as patient as a panda. I think the next version of Reason is going to be very telling, just hang in there and let's see what's up.

I will be patient and if they release a version that ticks all my boxes I would probably upgrade but that may be a while in the future. I'd most certainly buy Reason if it was released on iPad.
I am just not liking the way they are heading right now. I found that video patronising for some reason but they have been releasing videos like that for a while now...or maybe its just me?
I have all I want in my R7.1 and I will stick with that and thanks props for at least bringing the software to that level.

dvdrtldg · 22 Jan 2015

joeyluck wrote:It's not so much selling the idea of collaboration I feel. Yes, that is what it is on it's face.
But what it really is is attracting users of the mobile market via a free app (Take) and a free service (Discover) toward Reason—it's a great marketing strategy. This video is a good ad, but the greater ad is Take and Discover in themselves. Take and Discover will sell more Reason licenses as it increases exposure.

I thought much the same thing... they're using a couple of cheap apps to put their more expensive flagship product under the noses of people who otherwise might not be aware of it. Figure and Take as the gateway drug, if you like. After all, as cool as they are, there's really not all that much you can do with them, and people who are seriously interested in making music will run up against the limitations of something like Figure within a week. A lot of them will then go & get Reaper for free, but a significant number could be expected to check out Reason.

Like many others here, I couldn't be less interested in Discover and the whole buzz around "collaboration". As it happens, I work in a large media organisation that is currently falling over itself to pursue a younger, hipper, "smart and sassy" demographic (I shit you not "smart and sassy" is the favoured management-speak) via social media and online audience interaction. All it's doing is driving our established audience away, while failing miserably in attracting the younger smart & sassies, whoever the fuck they might be (nobody really seems to know). So I can very well understand the cynicism that Props are generating here.

But I can't understand why this supposedly means Reason is doomed. And I especially can't understand people who are saying "That's it, I'm off to find another DAW" when nothing has really changed for the Reason user (apart from a recent upgrade that I agree is less than ideal).

MarkTarlton · 22 Jan 2015

upon visiting the new site today I have one word...underwhelmed

that won't stop me from continuing on with my musical journey. I will still use and love R7 along with all of it's bugs and glory

Ostermilk · 22 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:OK, but intent and effect are two different things. Of course PH themselves are not advocating bad habits, but that's what the marketing agency has come up, and they would be well aware of this.

EnochLight wrote:
Fair point, but do you feel a marketing agency that comes up with commercials showing family SUV's being driven off-road through a stream or backwoods trail are suggesting people drive their SUV's off of the road and go crazy in a national park or my neighbor's lawn?

There's just a certain amount of end-user/consumer responsibility that one must take when these sort of promos are translated into real-world use. Again, I don't think anyone would walk around with their $800 USD smartphone out in the open in their hands with headphones on if they didn't feel safe doing so.

We've been carrying around expensive electronics in our pockets and in our hands for almost 36 years when the first Walkman appeared.

JiggeryPokery wrote:

Yeah, I do agree with that.

The trouble with marketeers is that they market a

JiggeryPokery wrote:lifestyle

JiggeryPokery wrote: and a freedom few people will ever actually experience. Few people who buy cars do anything but sit in traffic jams.

Few people who use Take will do anything but wait for their uploads or downloads to complete.

"Large wave files? On a 4G tariff? In England? With EE's reputation? What

JiggeryPokery wrote:were

JiggeryPokery wrote: they thinking?"

To be fair we do get our fair share of adverts on British TV showing folk gaily roller-blading around some precinct with complete abandon brandishing their latest Apple or MS gadget, there's a real cultural thing here as well alongside the fact that somebody that was less materially blessed than the blissfully unware fortunate one, may decide this is his or her best opportunity of 'buying' into the hip crowd. That is the perception that if you were to get your most precious and complex equipment out in public and started playing with yourself that you'd look exactly like a person getting their most precious and complex equipment out in public and playing with yourself.

22 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:Yeah, I do agree with that.

The trouble with marketeers is that they market a lifestyle and a freedom few people will ever actually experience. Few people who buy cars do anything but sit in traffic jams.

Few people who use Take will do anything but wait for their uploads or downloads to complete.

"Large wave files? On a 4G tariff? In England? With EE's reputation? What were they thinking?"

Heh - very true! Well, marketing is all about selling dreams. Some of the best marketing does just that.

That said, files downloaded to Take or uploaded from Take and Figure are not large wave files; they're compressed MP4's. No bigger than a typical iTunes purchase, depending on the length of your finished song. Not so bad!

tumar · 22 Jan 2015

Last Alternative wrote:they jump ship on a lot of stuff they make... or shall I say start to make.

Yorick wrote:
They killed Record as a standalone.
They killed ReBirth, and then killed ReBirth for iPhone.
They killed Balance.
:frown:

Oh, don't worry so much. Native Instruments has cementary full of products and services abandoned suddenly and without remorse.

ClassickHitz · 22 Jan 2015

It's hard when you're being told in so many words you are no longer the main focus.

Of course you feel some type of way about it, as you should. But the fact is Propellerhead needs to do something to attract new business even at the risk of being totally off cue.

What I mean is they've already limited themselves by just offering these new features to just IOS devices, cutting their nose to spite their face.

It's not like they're Apple selling Logic or something.

Oh, wait a minute. I may just be on to something here. Could Props be actually selling Reason to Apple. Nah, just grasping at straws

In any case I believe the current path is one of those necessary evils that wasn't well thought out. Sure go after new customers which makes good business sense but there is no need to kill or alienate your core base while doing so. That's a course correction that needs to be fixed before it's too late.

22 Jan 2015

EnochLight wrote:
That said, files downloaded to Take or uploaded from Take and Figure are not large wave files; they're compressed MP4's. No bigger than a typical iTunes purchase, depending on the length of your finished song. Not so bad!

Ah, compressed, you say? Fairy nuff.

....

hmm...

So none of this collaborative low-bitrate material will ever be allowed on Neil Young's PONO then!?

Exowildebeest · 22 Jan 2015

Jiggery, your gorilla is wearing headphones.

That's definitely against health-and-safety and against a gazillion animal ethics ideals!

Gorilla Texas · 22 Jan 2015

I think the crew section at props is deceptive. I wasn't aware of any blacks working at PH. Who's the black chic with only one hand done with fingernails? I think it's a good move marketing to put Soul,R&b Hip HOP in discover at the top to show diversity.

ClassickHitz · 22 Jan 2015

Jagwah wrote:I feel that but chill dude, Reason is still what it was before. If there is one thing I have learnt while dealing with Props it's to be as patient as a panda. I think the next version of Reason is going to be very telling, just hang in there and let's see what's up.

Crossing my fingers and hoping you're right!

zeebot wrote:I will be patient and if they release a version that ticks all my boxes I would probably upgrade but that may be a while in the future. I'd most certainly buy Reason if it was released on iPad.
I am just not liking the way they are heading right now. I found that video patronising for some reason but they have been releasing videos like that for a while now...or maybe its just me?
I have all I want in my R7.1 and I will stick with that and thanks props for at least bringing the software to that level.

It's funny how patient I've become with the many recent disappointments Props has handed out lately. I too am grateful for R7.1

22 Jan 2015

Good riddance. Any distance away from those scumbags is a good thing. They can serve their horseshit to another demographic (teenage market? I can't work it out - there's zero attempt to attract a pro market user base), because Im done with swallowing their manipulation.

TAKE is the future. They TAKE away a decade old community resource. They TAKE away features from a new version release. One thing they won't get to TAKE anymore is my money. After JPs organ, i'm finished with the RE purchasing.

ClassickHitz · 22 Jan 2015

Mr44Hz wrote:I think the crew section at props is deceptive. I wasn't aware of any blacks working at PH. Who's the black chic with only one hand done with fingernails? I think it's a good marketing to put Soul,R&b Hip HOP in discover at the top to show diversity.

That's oddly hilarious because I was wondering why the right hand of course looked like a woman's and the left resembled a man's because it wasn't done. I just brushed it off as me being weird.

First black person I've seen at Props ever (well sorta) since we only get to see the hands :s0238:

Jagwah · 22 Jan 2015

So yeah, as a very rough estimate - 90% of us are like: 'this is shocking and crap,' and anyone new to discover and the Reason forum would have had this rammed down their throats by quite a lot of us....

Flandersh · 22 Jan 2015

joeyluck wrote:I find it funny that people are freaking out over this and can't put two and two together.

I don't have an iPhone. I don't own Take or Figure.

But as a Reason user, this strategy they are executing makes me feel more comfortable about the future and success of Reason.

I have a degree in Business—Organization and Innovation Management. I don't mean to sound big headed by saying this lol. I'm not saying that because of that my opinion is right or anything I say in regards to business is right. We all have some background. I'm just trying to give some background to my opinion and my feelings.

This strategy they are currently executing is smart. And I just hope to possibly ease the tension and help some fellow Reason users relax is all =)

There has always been a market for integration, but the way different parts of a human life are integrated has very much to say for its future. The study of nature has always been about that (Strauss & Cropsey, 1987). So as such it is much more to it that marketing, and a company which do not take into account a broader human perspective do not know where they are heading.

An approach to integration which focus on the mobile platforms can loose potential buyers to other companies who approach integration with more balance between the different platforms. An important question in this is what role mobile platforms should have. Should they be auxilliary tools or base products which can be expanded? And what should the result of the integration be? Music as a consumer product, music as art or music as a political tool? Such kind of questions have an important role in defining the future of a company and its products, but also in pointing to its place in the broader historical and social context.

Bibliography:
Strauss, L. & Cropsey, J. (1987). History of Political Philosophy. (3rd edition). Chicago: The University of Chicago Press.

22 Jan 2015

JiggeryPokery wrote:hmm...

So none of this collaborative low-bitrate material will ever be allowed on Neil Young's PONO then!?

LOL!!!! Oh man, that PONO. It sounds fishy. More like... Ponyo.

Exowildebeest · 22 Jan 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:Good riddance. Any distance away from those scumbags is a good thing. They can serve their horseshit to another demographic (teenage market? I can't work it out - there's zero attempt to attract a pro market user base), because Im done with swallowing their manipulation. TAKE is the future. They TAKE away a decade old community resource. They TAKE away features from a new version release. One thing they won't get to TAKE anymore is my money. After JPs organ, i'm finished with the RE purchasing.

I find that so overly dramatic. It's as if you're talking about a relationship - one of those abusive ones you can't get out of because, ya know, even though he hits you when he's drunk, he's still kinda sweet.

I haven't seen much change to be overly worried about - it's just annoying marketing that catches our critical eye right now. Reason and RE's will continue as usual - hopefully with more money from the Take-target-audience backing it

22 Jan 2015

Yorick wrote:It just seems like someone's bright idealistic idea in the boardroom, but no market research was done about how people are actually collaborating today.

selig wrote:
[Cynical mode: ON]

OTOH…
What if this IS the result of serious market research?!?

JiggeryPokery wrote:
Hah!

You know, I guess you're joking, but plenty of great things have been ruined by bad feedback management. If the question is phrased to get the answer you want.

PH decide they want an online collaborative service, so you ask people:

"Do you think Reason needs better collaborative features?".

Well, I guess who wouldn't say yes to that? Seems fairly harmless.

So 90% of people surveyed probably said "yes", thus "confirming" plans they already had. They can legitmately turn around and say - most users agreed that they wanted better collaborative features.

They

JiggeryPokery wrote:wouldn't

JiggeryPokery wrote: have asked about what they actually planned:

"Do you think collaborative music file sharing and iPhone apps should be the primary driver of the Propellerhead website"?

Well, who's going to say yes to

JiggeryPokery wrote:that

JiggeryPokery wrote:?! Absolutely no-one, of course. So they simply don't ask that question

Why do Props feel that alienating a lot of us older users and Reason

JiggeryPokery wrote:evangelists,

JiggeryPokery wrote: by targetting a largely at best a largely non-existent demographic and at worst an entirely made-up one, is constructive?

That wasn't my point at all. I SHOULD have said: what if they're right? Or, What if it's true?

I wasn't intending to be commenting on marketing and how to phrase the question, I was commenting on where the youth of today may be taking us.

tibah · 22 Jan 2015

So...

Get mobile app users to know and experience what our main program can do...

The thing about all of this, you need people, with Reason, to turn other people's Figure and Take creations into something. People that upgraded since years and bought loads of Rack Extensions, maybe. Now if you provoke a big part of your online community and potential Discover users, all you have left are the mobile app users, which on their own, can't do anything with Discover. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm all about the fun in music making, especially with collabs it should be that way, but this is way too random in this stage and kinda needs the effort and time of Reason users to bring most of it to the next level. And this is the issue - the video, the new site, it says nothing to a Reason user. Figure and Take users at least know now "there is this place to upload your stuff and eventually someone else will turn it into something." Yippie yay!

EDIT: I believe you can open Take thingies again in Take, so you can do like endless over-dubs.

Rook · 22 Jan 2015

New website looks pretty good, design-wise...but same crappy store. That's what I was really hoping they would finally update. "Soon, hopefully..."<---[Reason's moto, apparently]

Also, pushing Discover this hard is kinda like "putting the cart before the horse", isn't it? I know they're wanting to attract new users. But Discover seems like more of a benefit for someone who already uses them and see value in them. Not much of a draw for people who aren't that into Props stuff already. I guess they're hoping to "inspire" people to use their tools in order to benefit from the Discover integration. But people have to see the tools as being worth using FIRST, before they'll even care about Discover. Right...?

Exowildebeest · 22 Jan 2015