Reason Studios needs to release a statement on the future of the DAW.

[avasopht]

This is a crawlway without a caption, not a proper entrance. I'd like it to be noticeable, not for me but for new shoppers.

That shop icon is actually pretty common. whether or not a new shopper would miss it will likely depend on the shopper. But you can't log in without seeing it. I think it's more of a preference about whether it should actually include the word 'shop'. But I think we can agree that it's far more visible than it was before.

It looks more like a basket icon, which is not what you usually click to shop. It's what you click when you've already purchased something and want to either pay for things, review your basket, or remove items from it.

[Timmy Crowne]

I both agree (wholeheartedly) and disagree (technically) with the thread title.

I agree in that I wish RS would release a statement on the future of the DAW, something more than ‘we haven’t forgotten about the DAW. It’s not going anywhere!’ I wish RS would tell us exactly what their vision for Reason’s future is. What would they like to accomplish? What features or workflows would a fully-realized Reason possess? What would the final sequencer be able to do? Mixer? What about logic bricks or scripting? How close are we to that target? What work is currently being done to advance that goal? What challenges are impeding progress? Is this the Reason the founders envisioned, or have things gone sideways? I’d love to get regular updates on these questions.

On the other hand, RS doesn’t *need* to say anything. That’s the rub. If their financials are holding up, they have no incentive to issue regular updates on the direction and status of Reason. They continue to get subscribers and purchases of new devices, even if the core software is buggy or roadmaps are delayed. In fact, if no major improvements to the core DAW feature set are in the works, they actually have incentive *not* to say so. It’s more profitable to get money from buyers who hope something will change than to break the bad news to them and give those customers the information they could use to jump ship.

I still love Reason and use it regularly, but I’ve come to accept that it won’t reach the potential I’ve imagined it has.

[QVprod]

That shop icon is actually pretty common. whether or not a new shopper would miss it will likely depend on the shopper. But you can't log in without seeing it. I think it's more of a preference about whether it should actually include the word 'shop'. But I think we can agree that it's far more visible than it was before.

It looks more like a basket icon, which is not what you usually click to shop. It's what you click when you've already purchased something and want to either pay for things, review your basket, or remove items from it.

I suppose it is usually the cart. I'm not speaking for or against it, but in my mind I guess I naturally make the association.

[stillifegaijin]

Hey Mods - How is this thread not closed? It was off the rails immediately out of the gate.

[bangaio]

I’ll add to this that almost all other daw developers have a big fat buy [our daw] button in their home page. Reason studios do not and obviously have R+ front and centre.

[rupfox]

Hey Mods - How is this thread not closed? It was off the rails immediately out of the gate.

How is it off the rails? I'm bringing up a real issue here. It's the main complaint by most reason users: The sequencer sucks, the workflow is lagging behind the other DAWs, when are we getting xyz improvements we've been begging for for 5 ~10 years. Why are they NOT addressing most of these complaints?

[Arrant]

They NEED to fix the bugs in R12 in order to have a viable product at all, so of course this has top priority over any sequencer improvements.

When R12 is stable (maybe around 2-3 months from now) then the roadmap should be updated. Putting actual sequencer improvements in this roadmap would be statement enough for me.

[QVprod]

Hey Mods - How is this thread not closed? It was off the rails immediately out of the gate.

No rules have been broken. We don’t censor RS criticisms.

[Goriila Texas]

Bullshyt if I had made this thread it would've been moved to the kitchen and some comments deleted. This and the Reason speculation thread are basically the same thing I was addressing as far as the future of Reason and the history of the company. Selig said he moved mine because it wasn't talking about using Reason but had no issues with these topics. That's why most I would imagine don't respect the mods for the reason being that they are inconsistent and don't really want dialog about Reason. I make valid points about Reason's shortcomings that are hard to dispute so they want to censor me.

Hey Mods - How is this thread not closed? It was off the rails immediately out of the gate.

No rules have been broken. We don’t censor RS criticisms.

[QVprod]

Bullshyt if I had made this thread it would've been moved to the kitchen and some comments deleted. This and the Reason speculation thread are basically the same thing I was addressing as far as the future of Reason and the history of the company. Selig said he moved mine because it wasn't talking about using Reason but had no issues with these topics. That's why most I would imagine don't respect the mods for the reason being that they are inconsistent and don't really want dialog about Reason. I make valid points about Reason's shortcomings that are hard to dispute so they want to censor me.

No rules have been broken. We don’t censor RS criticisms.

You weren't censored. Your topics were combined and those threads are still open for people to comment in if I'm not mistaken. Keep in mind there are multiple mods, and while we do keep to general guidelines, we may approach things slightly differently. However, as you can see in several threads on this site, RS criticisms are plain as day for anyone to read. We don't delete them. We even add our own from time to time.

[Goriila Texas]

I agree it's not all mods!

Bullshyt if I had made this thread it would've been moved to the kitchen and some comments deleted. This and the Reason speculation thread are basically the same thing I was addressing as far as the future of Reason and the history of the company. Selig said he moved mine because it wasn't talking about using Reason but had no issues with these topics. That's why most I would imagine don't respect the mods for the reason being that they are inconsistent and don't really want dialog about Reason. I make valid points about Reason's shortcomings that are hard to dispute so they want to censor me.

You weren't censored. Your topics were combined and those threads are still open for people to comment in if I'm not mistaken. Keep in mind there are multiple mods, and while we do keep to general guidelines, we may approach things slightly differently. However, as you can see in several threads on this site, RS criticisms are plain as day for anyone to read. We don't delete them. We even add our own from time to time.

[stillifegaijin]

Hey Mods - How is this thread not closed? It was off the rails immediately out of the gate.

No rules have been broken. We don’t censor RS criticisms.

1. No personal attacks and/or name calling.
2. No displays of aggression.

I guess we have different interpretations of these first two rules.

[QVprod]

No rules have been broken. We don’t censor RS criticisms.

1. No personal attacks and/or name calling.
2. No displays of aggression.

I guess we have different interpretations of these first two rules.

Enforcement of those rules (if broken) would usually result in actions taken towards individual users involved, not a shutdown of the entire thread unless it was absolutely necessary. You mentioned it being out of hand from the start, which would include all posts in this thread.

…But please, let’s keep this on topic.

[Eprom]

Coming back on topic..
I do think RS needs to share an updated version of the timeline. Giving users perspective might keep them from shopping elsewhere. And in his public statement the new CEO himself said how important it was to keep in contact with the user base.

If RS is not in the position of fixing bug X or implement feature Y, just be open about it.

(Well, that's my two cents)

[Heater]

The only Reason why I paid for the latest update was for native Mac M1 support and that keeps on getting delayed. More important to work on feature that users have to pay for then actual updates. Once I get that I’m done with this company. It’s always too little too late.

[hamsterfactor]

This DAW "bashing" puzzles me.
I thought one of the reasons RS created the plugin was to allow folks to use REs in their favorite DAW, especially those unhappy RS DAW users?

Of course this doesn't release RS of their responsibility to maintain / fix issues in Reason, but it does take the pressure off.
Am I missing something here?

[Eprom]

More important to work on feature that users have to pay for then actual updates.

Good point.
New features/devices draws new customers, so from a business point that makes sense. But if you keep ignoring your current customers, than that plan will backfire in the end. (as it looks to is happening now)

[Goriila Texas]

RS business model makes no sense at all imo. RS is like musicians who deviates from their genre of hit songs to crossover into different genre's of music every few years looking for new fans. It's a revolving door model as new fans come aboard old fans who make up the core fans base that's been loyal leave or keep listening to old hits (staying on Reason 10 and under). The growth of the company will be stagnant at best and fold at worse. Nothing proves it better than to see Daws that came after Reason surpass it in popularity and functionality e.g. Studio One or Bitwig. They don't mind old heads leaving though because they already got your money and you can't sell your Re's

More important to work on feature that users have to pay for then actual updates.

Good point.
New features/devices draws new customers, so from a business point that makes sense. But if you keep ignoring your current customers, than that plan will backfire in the end. (as it looks to is happening now)

[Eprom]

RS business model makes no sense at all imo.

It's the business model of a venture capital group who's primary business is "flipping businesses".
Alarm bells should have gone off the moment when Propellerheads became Reason Studio

[Goriila Texas]

Reason is the only DAW with the userbase all over the place as far as workflow is concern. You have those like me who use the RRP, those who work solely in the DAW and then those who use both. The amount of coding resources needed to appease the entire userbase RS brought on themselves by killing Rewire and not upgrading it's functionality. The RRP does nothing for core DAW users and core DAW improvements doesn't interest RRP users. I thought the RRP would replace the void of losing Rewire but once you've used the RRP the weaknesses become very clear.

This DAW "bashing" puzzles me.
I thought one of the reasons RS created the plugin was to allow folks to use REs in their favorite DAW, especially those unhappy RS DAW users?

Of course this doesn't release RS of their responsibility to maintain / fix issues in Reason, but it does take the pressure off.
Am I missing something here?

[Hoboys]

This DAW "bashing" puzzles me.
I thought one of the reasons RS created the plugin was to allow folks to use REs in their favorite DAW, especially those unhappy RS DAW users?

Of course this doesn't release RS of their responsibility to maintain / fix issues in Reason, but it does take the pressure off.
Am I missing something here?

What puzzles me is people being puzzled by this DAW bashing

These are paying PERPETUAL customers who put a lot of bricks into the foundation of what Reason is today and so they feel entitled to voice what they lack and what they would like to have in their software. RS are entitled to turn a blind eye on this for a while, fiscal priorities and all. But fast forward 5 (how about 10?) years - these users watched every other DAW user get what they asked for FOR YEARS, RS's polite "blind eye" is now the middle finger to the users and "voicing wishes" naturally progressed to "DAW bashing". To add insult to injury, RS have not even mentioned updating the sequencer in their year-long plan that they've posted. That's all there is the way I see it - just truly abysmal public relations management. 0/10. Literally one of the worst cases I've ever seen in my life. All it would take was someone like Mattias to come out and say "We hear you, we remember, we just cannot do this at the moment because it's incompatible with our company's survival. Please, bear with us. We need your support. We'll get there!" or something like this geez.

There's also the possibility that they don't want to do the DAW anymore ever, but don't want to say it outright. But that would just make RS loathe-worthy losers who abandoned something hard but great and nothing could be said here to insult people working at RS - their egos would already be dead.

[QVprod]

I do find it a bit odd that there’s an expectation of an announcement of new sequencer features (now) when there are still parts of the R12 release that aren’t finished yet and have no official date of when it will be. Like the browser. Surely they’d have to finish the DAW features they already announced before announcing something else let alone actually developing it.

We saw what happened with the first roadmap. Should they really promise more before finishing the second one?

[DaveyG]

We saw what happened with the first roadmap. Should they really promise more before finishing the second one?

If RS choose to take all of their user feedback from these forums they will never post another roadmap ever!

[Tweak]

What I'd simply like to know is how much of the proposed R12 roadmap is actually going to be delivered? Yes, it was stated it was a plan and not a promise, but I was made to feel that if the plan was going to change it was going to be prioritisation of alternative features, not the wholesale postponement of advancements/features to tackle defects. I paid for my upgrade on the basis of this misinterpreted premise.

It seemed to me the roadmap was meant to be an attempt to reach out to the Reason user base with some clarity and honesty about future development. Initially, it genuinely looked to be the case. I must admit, I personally feel pretty let down by the communication here, as with what has happened since (price bumps, features on the roadmap pushed, very few items mentioned actually completed, vast numbers of issues still to be fixed), it has me thinking the roadmap was there cynically to rope in buyers for the initial buggy 12 release.

I've begun to discount what RS say, and instead look at what they do, and how they act, as the two are fundamentally different. The growing distinction between what they say and what they do has begun to sow serious mistrust in this company for me.

[bangaio]

What I'd simply like to know is how much of the proposed R12 roadmap is actually going to be delivered? Yes, it was stated it was a plan and not a promise, but I was made to feel that if the plan was going to change it was going to be prioritisation of alternative features, not the wholesale postponement of advancements/features to tackle defects. I paid for my upgrade on the basis of this misinterpreted premise.

It seemed to me the roadmap was meant to be an attempt to reach out to the Reason user base with some clarity and honesty about future development. Initially, it genuinely looked to be the case. I must admit, I personally feel pretty let down by the communication here, as with what has happened since (price bumps, features on the roadmap pushed, very few items mentioned actually completed, vast numbers of issues still to be fixed), it has me thinking the roadmap was there cynically to rope in buyers for the initial buggy 12 release.

I've begun to discount what RS say, and instead look at what they do, and how they act, as the two are fundamentally different. The growing distinction between what they say and what they do has begun to sow serious mistrust in this company for me.

Sage advice there and at the end of the day no matter how many social media posts the put up or blogs from tbe ceo or cto or cleaner or how many YouTube videos with over excited Ryan appear their actions speak louder than words and the still have an unfinished software release. I actually. Installed the new version today and when I had the rack on view there were weird grey bars that extended down to the main sequencer control panel which covered up icons at the bottom. It looked really rubbish and this is on a big standard MacBook Pro from a couple of years ago running an fully up to day os. How can stuff like this get released? I guess the promise of more more more to subscribers is why.