R12 refund. Enough is enough.

[EnochLight]

Snap -

I was going to wait until Apple Silicon and vst3 was released before considering the R12 upgrade but due to the delays and lack of real improvements I went and purchased Live 11 Suite and although I'm enjoying the extra features I would like to see Reason standalone working and some features added so I can happily pay for the Reason upgrade once again but I've definitely decided that it won't be R12.

Yeah Ableton Live's Simpler is the reason I didn't bother picking up Waves' CR8, even though it's only $10. Just feel like Simpler gets me pretty much all of the way there, or at least as close as I need to be. I don't regret buying Live 11 Suite, anyway.

[raymondh]

Nothing lasts forever and everything costs money.
Especially petrol...

$3 per litre in New Zealand now! sheesh!

[Billy+]

Snap -

I was going to wait until Apple Silicon and vst3 was released before considering the R12 upgrade but due to the delays and lack of real improvements I went and purchased Live 11 Suite and although I'm enjoying the extra features I would like to see Reason standalone working and some features added so I can happily pay for the Reason upgrade once again but I've definitely decided that it won't be R12.

Yeah Ableton Live's Simpler is the reason I didn't bother picking up Waves' CR8, even though it's only $10. Just feel like Simpler gets me pretty much all of the way there, or at least as close as I need to be. I don't regret buying Live 11 Suite, anyway.

The only thing that is really bothering me (apart from the bugs) is that the devices don't look like they are going to be included in R12, after they released mimic as an internal device I was thinking that maybe the price increase would mean that the new devices would be included but then BLG got released and wasn't part of the package - so it still looks like they haven't made there minds up about the direction of licensing vs subscription given the discounts on subscribing that aren't available for licensing (directly from their site)

So it's making more sense to not buy upgrades and rack extensions then subscribing maybe in a year or two when things possibly start getting better and more devices are available - definitely think they have shot themselves in the foot and turned many of us toward edging out bets.

[orthodox]

Nothing lasts forever and everything costs money.
Especially petrol...

$3 per litre in New Zealand now! sheesh!

$0.67/litre in Russia

[Rising Night Wave]

0.00 per litre if you are on legs. haha.

[joeyluck]

I don't know why, but every time I see this thread title, I imagine somebody has gotten refunded too much money... "Enough is enough...stop it with these refunds!"

[EnochLight]

The only thing that is really bothering me (apart from the bugs) is that the devices don't look like they are going to be included in R12, after they released mimic as an internal device I was thinking that maybe the price increase would mean that the new devices would be included but then BLG got released and wasn't part of the package - so it still looks like they haven't made there minds up about the direction of licensing vs subscription given the discounts on subscribing that aren't available for licensing (directly from their site)

Yeah I gotta' disagree with you there. It was very clear to me what was being offered in stock 12, and BLG came out way after 12 was officially released, and there was no indication that they would give new RE's to non-R+ subscribers who just bought stock 12. They did clearly state R+ subscribers get all Reason Studios branded RE's/Players though, so of course R+ peeps would get BLG. So, not sure what you were confused by.

[eusti]

Yeah I gotta' disagree with you there. It was very clear to me what was being offered in stock 12, and BLG came out way after 12 was officially released, and there was no indication that they would give new RE's to non-R+ subscribers who just bought stock 12. They did clearly state R+ subscribers get all Reason Studios branded RE's/Players though, so of course R+ peeps would get BLG. So, not sure what you were confused by.

I agree that it was clear that new devices would only be added for R+ subscribers. And it would make sense for them to be added for every 12 owner to make up for the terribly messed up situation right now to generate some good will… Might be too late, but at least it would acknowledge that they know they messed up and have to over deliver to even come out even.

D.

[Billy+]

The only thing that is really bothering me (apart from the bugs) is that the devices don't look like they are going to be included in R12, after they released mimic as an internal device I was thinking that maybe the price increase would mean that the new devices would be included but then BLG got released and wasn't part of the package - so it still looks like they haven't made there minds up about the direction of licensing vs subscription given the discounts on subscribing that aren't available for licensing (directly from their site)

Yeah I gotta' disagree with you there. It was very clear to me what was being offered in stock 12, and BLG came out way after 12 was officially released, and there was no indication that they would give new RE's to non-R+ subscribers who just bought stock 12. They did clearly state R+ subscribers get all Reason Studios branded RE's/Players though, so of course R+ peeps would get BLG. So, not sure what you were confused by.

Well at the time the only device being announced was mimic (excluding CMBv2) so seeing it included to me looked like the increased price was potentially being justified with the inclusion of new devices - so bumping the price wasn't an issue given that we seem to be gradually being moved toward RRP.

I'm assuming that hidpi is working in RRP and was the primary reason behind releasing it while not working well in standalone?

Subscription including everything was a no brainier ultimately required for the packs to work as expected.

[jam-s]

A good way to get above the resolution race would have been to adopt vector graphics,
It would have significantly changed the look of the program but it would have been more future proof wouldn't it ?
It could be scaled to any size and resolution etc.
It would have altered the look and feel drastically.
But if you stick to raster graphics this will keep happening again and again . Now there are 4k monitors then there will be 400k monitors. This race between the hardware and software manufacturers will continue.
And reason studios will be stuck in the middle of this nonsense. Because the graphics res will keep being bigger, the file size will keep increasing, the system requirements will keep increasing etc because of all this nonsense.

That idea is flawed on so many levels:
* Skeumorphism heavily relies on photorealism thus a vector based UI is not going to cut it there.
* The human eye has a finite resolution limit and 4k is pretty much the end of line here in terms of usable gains for desktop systems. Maybe 8k might catch on, but that's usually only used for TV with >40" screens.
* 400k is absolutely ridiculous (even for cinema screens/projectors).
* we're pretty close to the end of Moore's law. exponential growth cannot continue for eternity.
* the future driver for innovation will rather be to get the same performance with less energy consumption or to incorporate quantum computing hardware into newer chip designs as specialised co-processors for special tasks.

[visheshl]

A good way to get above the resolution race would have been to adopt vector graphics,
It would have significantly changed the look of the program but it would have been more future proof wouldn't it ?
It could be scaled to any size and resolution etc.
It would have altered the look and feel drastically.
But if you stick to raster graphics this will keep happening again and again . Now there are 4k monitors then there will be 400k monitors. This race between the hardware and software manufacturers will continue.
And reason studios will be stuck in the middle of this nonsense. Because the graphics res will keep being bigger, the file size will keep increasing, the system requirements will keep increasing etc because of all this nonsense.

That idea is flawed on so many levels:
* Skeumorphism heavily relies on photorealism thus a vector based UI is not going to cut it there.
* The human eye has a finite resolution limit and 4k is pretty much the end of line here in terms of usable gains for desktop systems.
* 400k is absolutely ridiculous (even for cinema screens/projectors).
* we're pretty close to the end of Moore's law. exponential growth cannot continue for eternity.
* the future driver for innovation will rather be to get the same performance with less energy consumption or to incorporate quantum computing hardware into newer chip designs as specialised co-processors for special tasks.

1. that's why I said vector graphics would change the look significantly.
2. 400k was obviously an exaggeration, but the race will continue for a long time. It does not matter whether the eye can actually make out the difference or not. Look at cameras of mobile phones, they keep on producing higher resolution cameras and market them as a selling point in newer phones.

[earwig83]

honestly, i thrive when I see other people complaining. The RS years have made me a completely hostile Reason user. I do not have positive things to share about the individuals making decisions there.

[EnochLight]

Well at the time the only device being announced was mimic (excluding CMBv2) so seeing it included to me looked like the increased price was potentially being justified with the inclusion of new devices - so bumping the price wasn't an issue given that we seem to be gradually being moved toward RRP.

I'm assuming that hidpi is working in RRP and was the primary reason behind releasing it while not working well in standalone?

Subscription including everything was a no brainier ultimately required for the packs to work as expected.

Right but, I just don't understand why anyone would think that any new RS devices would be released to standard Reason 12 "perpetual license" users. Nowhere was this alluded to, except for R+ subscribers.

after they released mimic as an internal device I was thinking that maybe the price increase would mean that the new devices would be included but then BLG got released and wasn't part of the package - so it still looks like they haven't made there minds up about the direction of licensing vs subscription given the discounts on subscribing that aren't available for licensing (directly from their site)

I would say that they very much made up their mind.

[Billy+]

Well as I said "it was nothing more than an assumption"

After suite got created with a price bar being tried and the announcement of more regular updates via the agile approach - I assumed that they were coming up with a new strategy

4 - 5 devices and a major version every 12 months with a costing of £199 for a license or £99 for subscription

[visheshl]

I don't know why, but every time I see this thread title, I imagine somebody has gotten refunded too much money... "Enough is enough...stop it with these refunds!"

[EnochLight]

[Hoboys]

I did get refunded. Russian rockets shaking the ground around my home kind of taking away from this, but that's a matter for a different refund thread. This one can be closed, thank you!

[plaamook]

Ángels and ministers of grace defend us

[MrFigg]

Just like witches at black masses

[DaveyG]

Just like witches at black masses

Never a more fitting song. There are WPs on both sides.

[EnochLight]

I did get refunded. Russian rockets shaking the ground around my home kind of taking away from this, but that's a matter for a different refund thread. This one can be closed, thank you!

Good to hear (well, not about the Russian rockets part)! Stay safe.

Will probably lock this thread now - it’s went it’s course and the OP has requested it closed.