One for the guitarists

[dakta]

That's actually my biggest fear, bar 2 tracks i've posted up here I've never really let anyone hear anything I've ever done in 20 years of private music writing (just for context you're talking to someone with moderate anxy). I do want to get that dont give a cadburys freddo attitude though I do think it's winnable, and actually showing people some work is pretty much the aim.

Regarding the issues, I set the guitar up at my not-as-powerful-but-adequate pc at the workstation and it behaved as expected - I think my mistake may be I didn't realise my presonus had a mixer dial for input<->playback, because the angle I look at it it covers up the text. Major rookie oversight if that was the issue but I didn't realise it would loop it back, I expected by default the interface would send it to the DAW and what come back would only be what the DAW permitted on the M-audio interface at my workshop the mixer dial is massive and unmistakably there so you can't really not notice it, where on my presonus the text is hidden by the knob so I just never ever paid attention to it

[dakta]

So first lesson complete and oooow my fingers

how do you guys do this at speed I can't even press the strings without mashing it all up into audio spaghetti slow

[DaveyG]

You need to practice for more than one day.

Your finger tips will toughen up and your finger muscles will develop.

You haven't said what you are doing to learn but definitely take time to learn a song or a riff or an intro as well as doing exercises and scales and stuff. There will be loads of beginner guitar riffs on YouTube and you can't beat actually playing something, no matter how easy it is. Smoke On The Water says hello. Don't forget to gurn.

[selig]

So first lesson complete and oooow my fingers

how do you guys do this at speed I can't even press the strings without mashing it all up into audio spaghetti slow

I’m a committed guitar hack. To get started I just sat my guitar beside my chair where I watched TV. Then ever time I sat down I picked up the guitar and just mashed the strings randomly with my left hand for a few minuets (until it started to hurt just a tiny bit). Rest for a while, repeat. Doesn’t make (much of) a sound, and you don’t have to think about it. I still can’t play for more than 10-15 minutes at a time, but that’s often enough to get all the snippets of parts that can be cobbled together to make a “real” part!

But originally, my goal was just to get away from keyboards for musical ideas, where I was feeling a bit repetitive at the time.

I ‘second’ Smoke on the Water, and also You Really Got Me and All Day and All of the Night when you really need to rock out!

[dakta]

Yeah I'm being dramatic, I'm also famous for being hard on myself - I'm an IT analyst by trade and I take exams all the time just for laughs, I'm generally quite focused but unlike IT the guitar actually requires dexterity and I can't bookworm my way around this challenge

I was expecting to feel a bit overwhelmed as well, because I *know* it's a massive task, but getting it in your hands it sort of becomes real, doing your homework, reading up on it is very different to feeling the weight of it

I'm not dishearted at all, in fact enthusiasm is up there but it has sort of brought the size of the challenge into sharp relief

I think I need to look at my fingernails too, not something I really pay much attention to at all yet despite being short they do get in the way on the left hand


Now, in terms of 'what do you want to play' my instructor asked me this and it went a bit awkward because I actually have no idea, I'm not into rock, or what you find in the charts, or much at all really. The reason I want to play it is not for a particular song or genre but for versatility. In nearly everything, like the keyboard or piano you will also find as often as the guitar. I know to get good at it I will have to play songs with it, but the ultimate goal is composition and adding the benefits it to compositions. That will come, for now there very much will be a benefit to playing songs so I'm not going to be a genre snob and say I would prefer to play anything over any other. I've a feeling we're going to do the power chords first

[dakta]

Thanks both for your posts btw much appreciated. It's a big journey, will of course be continuing

I would also like to be able to perform some of my stuff, and it would be nice to it not to be the keyboard all the time

[DaveyG]

I've a feeling we're going to do the power chords first

Power chords are easy and are great for rocking out with loads of distortion but don't dismiss them for other song writing purposes.
They are easy because they are a fixed pattern and you only strum two or three strings but that also makes them really good for finding chord progressions without overloading yourself with full chords. Choose a jangly and undistorted setting on your amp or amp sim (with a bit of reverb and maybe some tremolo) and just mess about with that pattern across the first two strings. You'll find chord sequences that you wouldn't tend to find on keys. (Purists will tell you that they are not really chords because they only have two notes. Turn up the amp and ignore the purists).

[Jackjackdaw]

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to not care about learning songs in genres. You can learn music and musicianship and totally nerd out about scales and harmonies etc.

[guitfnky]

I wish more people would take that attitude when learning an instrument, honestly. learning songs that already exist is great to get familiar with specific techniques, but can put your approach in a particular frame, which isn’t necessarily great. if you want to use guitar as a compositional tool, start now—there’s nothing stopping you. it’ll sharpen your playing, songwriting, and let you know where you need to focus when you run into a roadblock. you can take those roadblocks to your instructor for help when you need. and one of the best side effects is that you’re less likely to try to conform your playing (and most specifically your compositions) to sound like something that already exists.

[dakta]

That's it - I've been mulling the question over 'what have i bought a guitar to do' and the answer really is so I can have one in my music

It's what I consider a fundamental instrument - even without direct experience of playing it - because without knocking other instruments it is, not unlike the piano very expressive and versatile - it can go from soft solos to rhythm, very harsh backing and back again - full scope of genre, full scope of moods - even at this stage of learning the reality it it is something you can do a lot with no matter where you music style or stance is.

I'm not against learning the popular songs as such, and it may be a learning benefit, but I want to hear it in my music I don't want to run before I can walk (I am seriously worried about my dexterity as its what hampered my organ playing) but that's where the ultimate aim is, it's not what you can play with a guitar, it's what you can make with a guitar (and the rest of reason as well). I feel it really could add value even as a backing instrument

[Iapetus 9]

Sad News- You've picked one of the most difficult instruments to learn, so you might wanna realize that most people give up because of that. Your hand is gonna hurt, your fingers will hurt, and that will continue until you've developed calluses. Make sure you have the action set properly (strings set close to the frets), because most out of the box setups are horrible, and playing guitar is a rather personal thing. If learning to do it yourself is a problem, then get a pro to do it, otherwise you can end up making things worse quickly. Just remember one thing- You aren't going to become Molly Tuttle overnight. It takes dedication and more than a little love.

[dakta]

Oh I know that, getting a tutor was the first thing i did, in fact the guitar I bought was on their recommendation

The learning curve is steep and it's going to be that way for a long time i think. I'm likely on the spectrum and am used to keyboard (and even then not to a great degree) so the whole concept of 'if you're aiming for a D, go for the B string and use fret 3' when my gut is go for the D. (that said would there be anything wrong with that? guess which octave you want?). The whole concept of if you want a note there might be a few places to get the exact same thing etc etc it's just not illogical, but not nicely geared for the way I process. The art to surviving is finding the rule that makes it make sense, which may or may not exist, I've made some progress in that ive written a bit of software that will (very slowly, with adjustable speed) throw up random notes and common chords and I've been ploughing at that for short bursts over the last few days. I figured this would be a way to sort of hammer home something at least to build on. I've also had a session with the tutor just to get the new guitar set up.

I do agree on the tutor thing though, whilst I think most of my learning will come outside of the tutoring, I do think it's doomed to failure without someone to critique stuff.

My main concern left now is the actual possibility of me playing guitar in the practical sense. Doing things slowly even without much practice at all, with time and patience Ive managed to nail many notes and chords. There are some that are just out of reach - and I say that in an almost literal sense because my fingers literally will not reach over the space needed. Learning notes is a challenge tgar time can overcome, reach might be a bit more tricky

Am still enjoying it thus far though very early days!

[DaveyG]

The whole concept of if you want a note there might be a few places to get the exact same thing etc etc it's just not illogical, but not nicely geared for the way I process.

The fretboard can be a bit intimidating at first and. yes, the same note appears several times across several strings but the magic of that layout is in shapes and patterns. You choose a fret as the "root" fret and the 4 or 5 frets along the neck from there give you everything you need to play a variety of scales across several octaves without having to change your left hand position. You learn a pattern and it works at any fret position. So say, for example you learn the minor pentatonic scale (and you should) you can take that fingering pattern and play it at any fret position, to get the same scale in any key. So learn a few patterns and you have a whole bag of different scales and keys at your fingertips.

Of course, I'm simplifying a bit. The frets get closer together as you move down the neck and your fingers will betray you again and again and again, especially the little pinky bugger, but whatever you are playing you should be aiming to minimise your left hand position changes. Patterns are the secret to making sense of the fretboard.

[robussc]

I’m giving guitareo a whirl, my friend loves the drumeo version and he plays quite well already. I’m at level 1 which a rushed through as it’s mostly intro and I’ve been at that level for a while .

Looking forward to level 2. It’s not free, but it’s not as expensive as 1-on-1 lessons. You sound like you have a bit of spare change.

Also thanks for the guitar rec, the Internet seems to agree that it’s a great intro/budget guitar.

[selig]

I wish more people would take that attitude when learning an instrument, honestly. learning songs that already exist is great to get familiar with specific techniques, but can put your approach in a particular frame, which isn’t necessarily great. if you want to use guitar as a compositional tool, start now—there’s nothing stopping you. it’ll sharpen your playing, songwriting, and let you know where you need to focus when you run into a roadblock. you can take those roadblocks to your instructor for help when you need. and one of the best side effects is that you’re less likely to try to conform your playing (and most specifically your compositions) to sound like something that already exists.

I found that learning existing songs was fundamental to my learning anything on guitar. But I used the same approach for piano and later for drums, so maybe it just works for me? On guitar, learning existing songs showed me how many were based on the same basic chord shapes (at least the ones I learned). I was only a few chords into my journey when I realized I knew enough to play many of my favorite songs, which was eye opening to say the least. Gave me a huge confidence boost to realize folks wrote those diverse set of songs all using the same basic chords (E, A, D, G, C, B in no particular order, both minor and major versions).

My entire reason for learning guitar was for compositional purposes, and I can assure you my songs are nowhere near any of the classics I learned (I’d be honored if they were…).

[guitfnky]

I wish more people would take that attitude when learning an instrument, honestly. learning songs that already exist is great to get familiar with specific techniques, but can put your approach in a particular frame, which isn’t necessarily great. if you want to use guitar as a compositional tool, start now—there’s nothing stopping you. it’ll sharpen your playing, songwriting, and let you know where you need to focus when you run into a roadblock. you can take those roadblocks to your instructor for help when you need. and one of the best side effects is that you’re less likely to try to conform your playing (and most specifically your compositions) to sound like something that already exists.

I found that learning existing songs was fundamental to my learning anything on guitar. But I used the same approach for piano and later for drums, so maybe it just works for me? On guitar, learning existing songs showed me how many were based on the same basic chord shapes (at least the ones I learned). I was only a few chords into my journey when I realized I knew enough to play many of my favorite songs, which was eye opening to say the least. Gave me a huge confidence boost to realize folks wrote those diverse set of songs all using the same basic chords (E, A, D, G, C, B in no particular order, both minor and major versions).

My entire reason for learning guitar was for compositional purposes, and I can assure you my songs are nowhere near any of the classics I learned (I’d be honored if they were…).

totally--I think it's really a personal thing, and of course people should approach learning anything new in the way that best works for them. what I probably should've said was that I wish more people would question how they should learn, instead of assuming they should take the traditional approach of learning covers and taking lessons from a teacher.

that obviously works for a lot of people...for me though, I would have given up on guitar within probably a couple of weeks if I'd tried to do that. my brain just doesn't function that way--there will always be more dopamine for me in creating something of my own than in nailing someone else's music--and I have to imagine there are lots of others out there in the same proverbial boat.

maybe the best advice would be to try the traditional route first, but if you find you're just not having fun doing it, don't just give up--try just messing around and writing stuff as you like, to see if that's a better path for you.

one of the more subtle, but important side-effects of learning my own way is how you can play the exact same notes in the exact same register, but on different strings/positions of the fretboard, and they'll sound very different. fairly often I'll realize I've written a chord progression with two 'different' chords, even though the notes are identical (or very nearly identical)--because they each bring a different feeling based on the context of the rest of what's going on. I don't think that would've been an important part of my songwriting approach if I'd taken a more traditional path.

[dakta]

Some interesting viewpoints - nobodies wrong and it seems even a lot of technique is personal

"I’m giving guitareo a whirl,"

Do you rate it so far? Not so sure on looking like a person with spare change ha but I am one of these that beleive you get what you pay for, so if I want something out you got to put some in - I'd probably give a few months a go if it's likely to be helpful

[robussc]

Some interesting viewpoints - nobodies wrong and it seems even a lot of technique is personal

"I’m giving guitareo a whirl,"

Do you rate it so far? Not so sure on looking like a person with spare change ha but I am one of these that beleive you get what you pay for, so if I want something out you got to put some in - I'd probably give a few months a go if it's likely to be helpful

Still early days, but I’m liking the fact that they go with a simplified F Major chord for beginners. Requiring a barred chord from the get go was a killer for me. (i’ve now started level 2). A Major is hard enough with my fat fingers. I’m using Beato’s alternate fingering for that! There’s a 90 day money back guarantee and they do have a large library of licensed songs to practice with.

[DaveyG]

Still early days, but I’m liking the fact that they go with a simplified F Major chord for beginners.

Yep, there are six strings but you don't always have to play them all. If you need to play a partial chord or two to get through a song then just do it. As well as the infamous F chord I struggled with some of the B chords when I started out, especially on the acoustic.

[dakta]

Just decided to take a free trial of fenders play online tutoring system, see what the first few are like.

I don't want to sort of clash with my tutor but would be nice to subsidise it a bit so far it's been quite good in that it's been proper back to basics (i.e this is what a guitar actually is).

One of perhaps my spectrummy traits is everyone sort of has an immediate need to jump to chords - which there might be a method behind but when I learned the bit of organ I know it was learn the notes, learn to coordinate the notes, then - only then - try multiple notes. The concept of 'heres a guitar, comfortable? chew on this chord' was a bit of an awakening.

Probably a reason for it as that seems quite common approach but that's why I don't mind going back to absolute basics.

[dakta]

Any tips for the fearesome f major?

Considering we're only a few weeks in practice is going quite well, better than expected really and we're starting to make progress with memorising the chords, progressing between them, even a reasonable attempt at strumming to my own stuff where the chords have been basic.

A lot of what I'd like to touch though does require mastery of thr F and my fingers just won't do it - I'm trying the simplified F (string 1+2 barred,) 3 played and 4+5 barred but I always seem to mute something.

Is it just a perseverance thing?

[DaveyG]

Is it just a perseverance thing?

Mostly, yes, although the difficulty can vary from person to person depending upon their fingers and upon their guitar set-up. It's mostly a case of practicing until your fingers get stronger, the skin hardens up and the muscles start remembering. It does come eventually. There is a thing where you can wrap your thumb over the top of the fretboard to do some of the work but your teacher probably frowns upon that!

The good news is that once you have the pesky F chord under your fingers you can move that that shape down the fretboard to get loads of other chords and there are a few variations on the shape to get even more chords all from one basic technique. But there is no getting away from the initial effort and frustrations.

In the meantime, if you want to play along with something then the partial chord is the way to go but make sure you don't neglect practicing the full one. And pay attention every time you see someone else playing, either live or on TV. You'll be surprised how many of them play the partial version...

[Jackjackdaw]

It’s the bane of new players. Practice is only way through. I would thoroughly recommend practice some scale patterns to a very slow metronome, This massively improves your dexterity and makes the chord claw hand a lot easier.

Also learn chord triads, up the neck. You only need 3 notes and you will learn much more about your guitar and what chords are . I actually have a real problem with open chords being the first thing taught to new players and the F chord being some kind of right of passage just so you can bang along to Wonderwall .

[dakta]

the F chord being some kind of right of passage just so you can bang along to Wonderwall .

The above two posts are very good thanks but I had to spit my coffee out at this final statement, because that is exactly what I don't want to find myself doing

No offense to Oasis, but playing back others music isn't really my thing (though it is a necessary part of learning I know) I want to be creative

[dakta]

Anyone recommend any good plugins for making guitars sound interesting? I'm quite pop focused so don't mind your metal distortion stuff but I like a bit of all sorts but I'm also not really sure what I can do with it yet

Still enjoying the guitar adventure, enjoying it so much we've already done a bit of a christmas song (nothing extravagant it was just a practice session that turned into a bit of something after I mishit a string and quite liked it)

Still million miles of being pro, I'm very slow but having a whale of a time still

But I've perhaps comitted a sin, it was my birthday the other day so I treat myself and now have a bass guitar too

Manged to just about squeeze out driving home for christmas on the bass with a day or so's practice, buckets of fun.