MusicTech: Niklas Agevik talks Reason

[avasopht]

Again. We all struggle to find free time during the day for our music making between day jobs, family / friends commitments, Netflix/HBO/Prime, etc. and ...that damned sleep. But once we carve out that time, then Reason is competing with other DAWs for many of us.

So, saying that Reason competes with Netflix is just silly.

This is the stance Nintendo took, and it worked.

Instead of competing with PlayStation and Xbox, they differentiated their console. You're much more likely to find gamers with an Xbox + Nintendo or Sony + Nintendo than an Xbox + Sony (but no Nintendo).

"Reason doesn't need to compete with DAWs. In fact, you can get the most out of your DAW by using Reason to do the bits it's best at, and use your DAW for what you feel most comfortable using it for."

That's basically what he's saying.

[avasopht]

Reason is competing with other DAWs from a financial point of view. If you have to watch what you're spending your money on then you'll probably try to cut down on duplication, so while Netflix might stay you might have to drop one of the two Draws you have a licence for that more or less do the same thing.

In my case Netflix helps my music making as my other half is happy watching chick flicks and I can go off to the other room and mess around with Reason. Better than spending it on something like Roland Cloud or plugin of the month.

It's not that simple.

Our purchasing decisions aren't always between equivalent products.

This was the wisdom behind Motown.

You don't write singles to compete with other singles, you write singles that compete with a cheeseburger because that's the real decision being made by the consumer.

Look at how many users of this forum use another DAW.

Chances are, they've crunched the numbers and realized they don't need to appeal to buy Reason over another DAW but to appeal to a person's desire to use Reason over their desire to spend their weekends watching Netflix.

It's an insight into what marketing messages might be more effective.

It's why some subscriptions point out that it only costs the equivalent of one cup of coffee per week rather than how much better they are than their competitors. That might be an easier draw than, "Squander £400 on our DAW instead of Ultimate-Music-Making-Machine-Turbo-Pro-Plus".

For me, Reason+ was competing with a bunch of things:
1. Coffee and Chocolate.
2. Roland Cloud (I'm still on the fence because I really do have more than enough already)
3. EWQL Cloud.
4. Some other subscriptions.
5. Native Instrument's Play.
6. Splice.
7. Output Arcade.
8. (Maybe) Presonus Studio One+ ... (I like how they've followed Reason+).
9. Some more sound libraries (but I have more than enough tbh).
10. ... ... something else.

It's anecdotal, but I really do think they're onto something.

Trying to compete with other DAWs might be a fool's errand. The product isn't a total DAW replacement, and it might be a huge mistake to try to turn it into one. It could also be the best thing that ever happened to Reason, but I'm not too sure it's such an easy case.

[QVprod]

It’s quite hard to play a game and make music at the same time.

I'm doing exactly that this very minute.
As soon as I get shot and have to await the next respawn, I play music on my 2nd screen.

You are aware that's not exactly at the same time

[guitfnky]

the takeaway is that RS' messaging could still use some work.

shouldn't need to have folks pop on to correct the record for the CEO. they're a big-boy company now. drinking age, and all that...they should've figured out how to communicate with a modicum of precision and discipline by now.

that said, what they were trying to say is a good thing. I don't think anyone could rationally argue that making it easier for people to start creating something is a bad thing (I said not *rationally* ). I'm not sure what they can do to get me back into the DAW, but that doesn't mean I'm not excited to see how they try. who knows?--I might be pleasantly surprised. but either way, at the end of the day, if they get more people coming up with cool music along the way, that's a big win.

[luckygreen]

Reason users have been hindered by bugs since the launch of R12. It's only recently that the product reached the quality it should have been at on release. Versions up to and including R11 were easily the most bug free music software on my PC. Reason was rock solid. ...

I thought of Reason as being one of the most stable / bug free DAW. I had no idea of that situation. Hopefully they do better again with new next major release.

Throw in a few jabs at poor old Matthias who sticks his head above the parapet to correct some misapprehensions and is immediately accused of being suspiciously defensive, and you've got the perfect Reason Forum stupidstorm

True. I guess Matthias is a real trooper. People on the internet exaggerate partly to make themself heard and to move things in a direction they are convinced is the right one. Matthias appears to be a smart guy, he probably knows all of this. So thanks to Matthias for sticking around. I like your presentations / tutorials / live streams with Ryan on Youtube. Can't wait for the next one.

[deeplink]

I think the misconception here - or the narrative that is pushed upon the consumer - is that anyone who makes music has a dream of being a superstar and the only way to guarentee that is to use a DAW/VST with the most advanced and greater number of features.

While you will certainly need a competitive edge in this market, the reality is the majority of us do it because it's simply fun, challenging and a way to express yourself. In this way, the purpose of making music, and outcome of which, is more aligned with playing an ARPG.

Not that "musical success" is out of the equation, but on a day to day basis for the majority of users, we're simply having fun making music.

At least, that's my view and also why I'm a fan of Reason and Reason Studios as a company. While exciting as new features can be, I really commend RS on making their software as streamlined, simple, accessible and as fun as possible.

And for anyone who do feel left out by the hoard of features-built-on-top-features design philosophy of the likes of FL Studio, you can simply make the switch without losing any investment you made into Reason Studios through the use of Rack Plugin.

That's all pretty good in my books..

But also track folders would be nice

[avasopht]

I'm doing exactly that this very minute.
As soon as I get shot and have to await the next respawn, I play music on my 2nd screen.

Doesn't that give you the incentive to lose

[antic604]

Again. We all struggle to find free time during the day for our music making between day jobs, family / friends commitments, Netflix/HBO/Prime, etc. and ...that damned sleep. But once we carve out that time, then Reason is competing with other DAWs for many of us.

So, saying that Reason competes with Netflix is just silly.

So… “carving out time” isn’t competing with the things you literally just listed?! Lmao… ok.

No. I don't partition my time to Work, Family, Netflix, Reason, Bitwig, Studio One.

I partition it like Work, Family, Netflix, Music Making.

Thus, Reason competes with other DAWs.

[avasopht]

I think the misconception here - or the narrative that is pushed upon the consumer - is that anyone who makes music has a dream of being a superstar and the only way to guarentee that is to use a DAW/VST with the most advanced and greater number of features.

This is such an important point.

PH is wise to recognize the need for a different narrative centred around personal enjoyment.

[Threpus]

Watching movies and playing games is- for the overwhelming majority of people- recreation. There is a significant number of us making a living from their music that love Reason and want to see Reason Studios aspire to build a fully-featured DAW that doesn't require workarounds or other DAWs to host it. The comparison to leisure activity strengthens my suspicion that it will never catch up.

[deeplink]

Watching movies and playing games is- for the overwhelming majority of people- recreation. There is a significant number of us making a living from their music that love Reason and want to see Reason Studios aspire to build a fully-featured DAW that doesn't require workarounds or other DAWs to host it. The comparison to leisure activity strengthens my suspicion that it will never catch up.

Making a living from music that you make is quite a challenge, with many other factors from marketing, licensing and record deals involved as well - it does not soley rest on the DAW you use.

And to simplify things greatly, all someone need to do is make a good sounding song that A LOT of people enjoy.... and there's literally nothing that is stopping someone from doing that in Reason currently.

Quality of Life improvements are always welcomed, but its not required to have a successful music career.

[antic604]

I think the misconception here - or the narrative that is pushed upon the consumer - is that anyone who makes music has a dream of being a superstar and the only way to guarentee that is to use a DAW/VST with the most advanced and greater number of features.

While you will certainly need a competitive edge in this market, the reality is the majority of us do it because it's simply fun, challenging and a way to express yourself. In this way, the purpose of making music, and outcome of which, is more aligned with playing an ARPG.

Not that "musical success" is out of the equation, but on a day to day basis for the majority of users, we're simply having fun making music.

That's a false equivalency.

You've built a strawman that says that all people who want features want to be rockstars, and because the latter isn't true then the former is pointless either.

Most things people - incl. myself - expect from Reason is for them to makes things easier, the workflow smoother, to remove hurdles and reduce friction. When you look at my list it's basically things that get in the way for me:
* I need keyboard shortcuts (for faster MIDI editing),
* MIDI comping & retrospective recording (to aid my sloppy "playing"),
* smarter automatic ways to organize my sequencer tracks ("grouping" of tracks naturally belonging together),
* faster way to do things I do - and undo, and redo - all the time (modulation, splitting audio for processing).

Had they implemented it guess what? The ratio of "fun" vs. "work" when using Reason would skyrocket for me!!!

Making things easier & more fun is particularly important for hobbyists, because - as we discussed - we have to carve out time during the day for music making. It's not our day job.

Ind for anyone who do feel left out by the hoard of features-built-on-top-features design philosophy of the likes of FL Studio, you can simply make the switch without losing any investment you made into Reason Studios through the use of Rack Plugin.

No. RRP is just 1/3 of why I bought Reason 10 in 2017. For me the sequencer and mixer are equally important and unique in a lot of their features. RRP isn't Reason, for me.

"Investment" is not just about the money.

[Threpus]

I make a living from music, I know it is challenging, and I know that the DAW you use isn't the deciding factor.

But I can't score in Reason alone. I wish that I could.

And what are considered QOL improvements by some are time-saving efficiencies for others that cannot be parted with when deadlines are imposed.

[deeplink]

That's a false equivalency....

But I can't score in Reason alone. I wish that I could.

All fair points antic and Threpus

[MattiasHG]

Most things people - incl. myself - expect from Reason is for them to makes things easier, the workflow smoother, to remove hurdles and reduce friction. When you look at my list it's basically things that get in the way for me:
* I need keyboard shortcuts (for faster MIDI editing),
* MIDI comping & retrospective recording (to aid my sloppy "playing"),
* smarter automatic ways to organize my sequencer tracks ("grouping" of tracks naturally belonging together),
* faster way to do things I do - and undo, and redo - all the time (modulation, splitting audio for processing).

Had they implemented it guess what? The ratio of "fun" vs. "work" when using Reason would skyrocket for me!!!

Making things easier & more fun is particularly important for hobbyists, because - as we discussed - we have to carve out time during the day for music making. It's not our day job.

I agree! That's what I tried to clarify, but perhaps I failed abysmally.

We're not saying anywhere (and Niklas certainly wasn't saying it in the interview) that we won't do these things or things like them. It seems the sticking point is the "competing with" statement, where it sounds like you're saying we could only do features like the above if we also say "we're going head to head with the other DAWs". That's not how we think about it. In other words, regardless of if we're competing against other DAWs, other plug-ins, or video games, we want to make Reason better and more fun for the people that make music with it so they want to choose launching Reason. "All of the company is now focused on actually building Reason and making Reason better.”, as Niklas said in the interview.

Hope that makes more sense!

[jklok]

I guess I was lucky not to experience R12 in its initial release. It has been running totally crash free since I bought a used M1 this spring and installed 12.5.1 with Ventura and the performance and sound is the best ever. With the amount of power available and access to the VST3, I would say you can mix directly out of the box now and be very happy with the result compared to any other DAW on the market. Calling Reason a toy is like calling a real recording studio a playground, and I suppose that must always be the case whether you make a lot of money from your tracks or not.

[Mataya]

Most things people - incl. myself - expect from Reason is for them to makes things easier, the workflow smoother, to remove hurdles and reduce friction. When you look at my list it's basically things that get in the way for me:
* I need keyboard shortcuts (for faster MIDI editing),
* MIDI comping & retrospective recording (to aid my sloppy "playing"),
* smarter automatic ways to organize my sequencer tracks ("grouping" of tracks naturally belonging together),
* faster way to do things I do - and undo, and redo - all the time (modulation, splitting audio for processing).

Had they implemented it guess what? The ratio of "fun" vs. "work" when using Reason would skyrocket for me!!!

Making things easier & more fun is particularly important for hobbyists, because - as we discussed - we have to carve out time during the day for music making. It's not our day job.

I agree! That's what I tried to clarify, but perhaps I failed abysmally.

We're not saying anywhere (and Niklas certainly wasn't saying it in the interview) that we won't do these things or things like them. It seems the sticking point is the "competing with" statement, where it sounds like you're saying we could only do features like the above if we also say "we're going head to head with the other DAWs". That's not how we think about it. In other words, regardless of if we're competing against other DAWs, other plug-ins, or video games, we want to make Reason better and more fun for the people that make music with it so they want to choose launching Reason. "All of the company is now focused on actually building Reason and making Reason better.”, as Niklas said in the interview.

Hope that makes more sense!

Thanks for your input. I'm pretty sure I can go 5 years back on this forum, even more and find a post from you saying something like this. Saying we will do things you ask. And then in the mean time we get some cool devices, but not really crucial as the workflow improvements people ask for. So my question is just why? And how many more years will it take and also, why is it so hard to do those things if we see stuff like that being implemented in all other DAW's?

Thanks.
M

[Threpus]

Like most of the people here, I love Reason. I love the flexibility of the rack, the streamlined utility of the mixer, the abundance of high-quality instruments and effects, and the general aesthetic. That love is precisely why I hope it can evolve into a complete and efficient recording and editing environment. I wish I could spend more time with it. I appreciate it for what it currently is, and I will continue to use it- even if I become less of a resident and more of a tourist over time.

[antic604]

Most things people - incl. myself - expect from Reason is for them to makes things easier, the workflow smoother, to remove hurdles and reduce friction. When you look at my list it's basically things that get in the way for me:
* I need keyboard shortcuts (for faster MIDI editing),
* MIDI comping & retrospective recording (to aid my sloppy "playing"),
* smarter automatic ways to organize my sequencer tracks ("grouping" of tracks naturally belonging together),
* faster way to do things I do - and undo, and redo - all the time (modulation, splitting audio for processing).

Had they implemented it guess what? The ratio of "fun" vs. "work" when using Reason would skyrocket for me!!!

Making things easier & more fun is particularly important for hobbyists, because - as we discussed - we have to carve out time during the day for music making. It's not our day job.

I agree! That's what I tried to clarify, but perhaps I failed abysmally.

We're not saying anywhere (and Niklas certainly wasn't saying it in the interview) that we won't do these things or things like them. It seems the sticking point is the "competing with" statement, where it sounds like you're saying we could only do features like the above if we also say "we're going head to head with the other DAWs". That's not how we think about it. In other words, regardless of if we're competing against other DAWs, other plug-ins, or video games, we want to make Reason better and more fun for the people that make music with it so they want to choose launching Reason. "All of the company is now focused on actually building Reason and making Reason better.”, as Niklas said in the interview.

Hope that makes more sense!

Thanks, that's way clearer!

I never meant for Reason to compete with other DAWs for a sheer number of features, quantity of instruments & FX or how fest it gets on the latest fads (AI mastering, stem extraction, etc.).

But it inevitably competes for my music making time with e.g. Bitwig, where I can modulate stuff and apply per-band FX chains much faster & with way less friction than I ever can in Reason. And I do it all the time. On almost every track. I suspect you'll never get close to what Bitwig offers in that regard, but just closing the distance a bit would be enough. The enormous flexibility & freedom Bitwig offers there actually works against my personal productivity, because I am able to do everything I can think of and it's so effortless to build, change, tweak, etc. that it's never finished for me.

Anyway - same word, but different meaning, indeed!

--------------------------------

Still, it baffles me that you - Reason Studios, not you personally - avoid any mention of Reason 13 like fire.

Sure, some people will batch & moan that they are expected to pay again, because they only recently upgraded, or because FL offers "lifetime upgrades". But others (majority, perhaps?) would appreciate, feel relieved and energized that you've got past the code cleaning phase (refactoring of GUI & audio engine code, VST3, Apple Silicon, new authorization & content management systems, etc.) and are ready to roll full ahead with new stuff. Fair or not, those things are not what excites the users. They're considered long-overdue maintenance work.

I'm not aware of a DAW that committed a full version to exclusively "catch up". Everyone added Apple Silicon, VST3, MPE while doing other stuff. It clearly impacted the scope and/or timeline, but there was always something for users that don't use Macs or can't play keys.

Then again, it's easy to complain from my point of view. Perhaps you're short staffed. Perhaps you can't do even seemingly "low hanging fruit" stuff, before something else in the pipeline isn't finished that's necessary. Perhaps you're planning something that makes the feature I/we want irrelevant or even counterproductive. But how should we know, if roadmap "promises" sequencer features, then removes that reference in next version, then avoids to discuss Reason future altogether.

--------------------------------

Ok, going back to work so that I could carve out some Reason-time from my evening / night

[Eprom]

It all comes down to this: when a product is fun and intuitive, people will use it. If it is not, people will move on to the next product.

[avasopht]

Right now, it's kinda looking like Reason is competing with ReasonTalk

[antic604]

Right now, it's kinda looking like Reason is competing with ReasonTalk

Not for my time. I post here when I'm at work, while I use Reason while at home. Win / win

[crimsonwarlock]

But it inevitably competes for my music making time with e.g. Bitwig, where I can modulate stuff and apply per-band FX chains much faster & with way less friction than I ever can in Reason. And I do it all the time. On almost every track. I suspect you'll never get close to what Bitwig offers in that regard, but just closing the distance a bit would be enough.

Problem with statements like this one is that you (and other people making such statements) seem to think that every other Reason user has the same interests as you have. I, for one, couldn't care less about the things that Bitwig can do, or Ableton for that matter. I make rock music, I don't need a clip launcher

Reason competed marvelously with Reaper, in my case. I bought Reason 11 suite to be able to dabble on a laptop, while my studio DAW would be squarely aimed at running Reaper. After a week or two, though, I had switched completely to Reason, installed in on my studio DAW, and basically haven't done anything in Reaper since.

From a marketing point-of-view, it is always more logical to assume people by your product for what it CAN do, not for the things is can't. So, building on the foundation of what it does best seems, at least to me, a pretty fundamental choice. Playing catch-up with other products will always be what it is: playing catch-up.

[Popey]

May I suggest reason offers a crossgrade offer. Any steam or Netflix user gets 10% off.

That way they can entice new users from the opposition

[selig]

So… “carving out time” isn’t competing with the things you literally just listed?! Lmao… ok.

No. I don't partition my time to Work, Family, Netflix, Reason, Bitwig, Studio One.

I partition it like Work, Family, Netflix, Music Making.

Thus, Reason competes with other DAWs.

And so far, at least for you because you’re here, it’s winning, no?