Reason Delay/Latency Problem

[nebraskafire]

I was wondering the other day why I often have to correct my timing in Reason. I then did a latency test to see if maybe a recording delay is to blame. I played a kick through the headphone output back into an input. You can clearly see latency (track 3 and 4). I turned off delay compensation on track 2 and turned it back on on track 5. Strange that the latency changed and stayed the same after I turned it back on. I set the playhead to the place where the kick starts (on the track with latency) and the timer shows 0:00:00:017. I tried to manually adjust the input latency in the options but no matter which way I move it (500ms or -500ms) it doesn't change. I did the same test in Reaper and there I have almost no latency. Is this a bug?

Reason


Reaper

[nebraskafire]

I should mention that I m on the latest reason 12 version.

[antic604]

I was wondering the other day why I often have to correct my timing in Reason

Can you explain the process? I've no idea what you did and what you expect should be the correct result? Are you recording into 5 tracks simultaneously and comparing the impact of latency compensation? If so, why you're surprised you see latency on the tracks you've disabled it?

[nebraskafire]

No I record on track at the time. I put a cabel from the headphone out into an input. Play the kick in track 1 and recorded the result in on track. Muted the track and recorded another track.

It's explained here:

[nebraskafire]

I have tested it again, since I had not considered the monitor in the first test. Now I have a latency of 45ms but when I set the latency compensation in the options it also works.

Track 2 without compensation
Track 3 with compensation

[nebraskafire]

Somehow it gets weirder and weirder. I have tested it again. I took out the latency compensation in the options and suddenly everything works without problems and there is no latency. I waited a bit and did the test again suddenly 2ms delay, then only 1ms and then again none then suddenly 5ms.

Is it my system or is it Reason?

I am confused.

[luckygreen]

Somehow it gets weirder and weirder. I have tested it again. I took out the latency compensation in the options and suddenly everything works without problems and there is no latency. I waited a bit and did the test again suddenly 2ms delay, then only 1ms and then again none then suddenly 5ms.

Is it my system or is it Reason?

I am confused.

Shoot in the dark but I noticed that I have to set "Stretch and Transpose Type" ro "Allround". Otherwise if I try to slice up my audio recording I end up with the audio segments kind of moving back and fourth under the slice markers. Have you played with the "Stretch and Transpose Type" setting already?

Maybe Reason Studios support can help. And if they do, please report back. I'm curious. Hope you find a solution to this.

[stillifegaijin]

I’m pretty sure that sending audio out of any daw, through an audio interface, and back in, is going to create some amount of latency. I mean, why wouldn’t it? You are converting to analog audio and then recording back in, right? Time is real. I’m not sure I understand what the mystery is.

[jam-s]

The absolute minimum of a roundtrip to send audio out and back into the computer via an actual loopback cable is twice the audio buffer size + some overhead for the internal bus. A daw might be able to compensate for this by doing some simple math + some manually entered additional offset.

[selig]

I’m pretty sure that sending audio out of any daw, through an audio interface, and back in, is going to create some amount of latency. I mean, why wouldn’t it? You are converting to analog audio and then recording back in, right? Time is real. I’m not sure I understand what the mystery is.

A modern interface/DAW will compensate for this delay.
I’ve not done this test before so don’t have a baseline to compare to, but with my Apollo interface I’m spot on at any buffer setting.
The test is headphones out to instrument input, both on the front panel. The audio source was a kick sample with a clear transient on the front, zoomed in fully to check alignment after recording. That means if you can play to the click, it will be recorded exactly how you play it.

That said, when extending the test to a few bars long, I did notice some minor (a few ms) jitter in Reason’s click track, need to repeat the test with samples. The test was to loop a bar and turn off “follow” (F key) and zoom in on beat 2-4 in the first bar, and watch the timing move around slightly each loop. I’m curious, but not concerned, with this slight jitter…

[nebraskafire]

I tested it again, ran the whole thing through a few times and here you can see my problem. The first tracks had a delay of 1 or 2 ms, then suddenly 85ms. I then restarted my sound card and everything was back to normal. Then suddenly 75ms delay again restarted everything again okay.

Especially when I record a guitar you can hear the sudden delay very strong. If it would happen in any DAW then I could say it's the sound card but it only happens in Reason. Not in Reaper and not in Cubase.

[jam-s]

Just a guess: Power saving options which put the CPU, audio card or USB port into standby. Try to disable any of those if they are (still) active on your system.

[nebraskafire]

Everything is on maximum and energy saving for the usb is alread deactivated. It just happened in reason every other daw runs fine with no problems. My guest is that reason reacts to some background processes of windows 11.

[Jackjackdaw]

I’m no expert but I did a little reading about Reason delay compensation compared to Cubase a while ago. I gather that it is less robust due to the c.v stuff. Cubase is much stricter, hence why you get a gap in the audio if you add an effect during playback.

[luckygreen]

I’m no expert but I did a little reading about Reason delay compensation compared to Cubase a while ago. I gather that it is less robust due to the c.v stuff. Cubase is much stricter, hence why you get a gap in the audio if you add an effect during playback.

CV-stuff ... that reminds me of one setting in the preferences ...

Try that: go to Edit > Preferences > Audio Tab > Toggle setting "Render audio using audio card buffer size settings" either on or off and test again.

In rare cases it messes with CV-timings but should improve VST-performance. Perhaps it has an influence on audio latency while recording as well.

[selig]

I’m no expert but I did a little reading about Reason delay compensation compared to Cubase a while ago. I gather that it is less robust due to the c.v stuff. Cubase is much stricter, hence why you get a gap in the audio if you add an effect during playback.

Delay compensation won’t be a factor here I would think, as it is a way to keep Mix/Audio Channels in ‘sync’ with other channels during playback. This is more about interface/recording latency compensation, which was around before delay compensation for playback IIRC.

Delay compensation applies to plugins, and for the above example there are no plugins being used, right? it’s just a simple “out and back in” routing, and regardless of anything else going on it SHOULD be consistent from playback to playback (which it is not for the OP).

[nebraskafire]

Just to finish off this post, I have found the problem. It is due to the Tascam audio interfaces, somehow the latency of the devices is communicated incorrectly or however it works. The problem suddenly happened with Reaper and I ordered a new interface (from Presonus) and tested it extensively. There are no problems in Reason, the latency is always the same and doesn't jump back and forth. My guess is that Cubase and Reaper can handle the Tascam interfaces better than Reason and the error occurs less frequently. What I personally find very shocking is that I have two Tascam interfaces (208i and 1x2HR) and the problem occurs with both. So I think that Tascam has a problem in general.