Announcing Reason 13

[iTrensharo]

Both lack even more features than Reason (Maschine is not trying to be a DAW).

Neither of those are marketed a Studio DAWs. Both Maschine 2 and MPC 2 are Grooveboxes for sampling, beat production and sketching. Many producers will sketch in Maschine or MPC and then bring things into a Studio DAW for Arranging and Mixing.

This is why they are compared against each other far more than against anything else. People generally choose between MPC and Maschine, not Maschine and Cubase Pro or MPC and Logic Pro (again - generally...).

Reason 12 (13) is marketed as a Studio DAW, so the base of comparison is different and the base feature level that people expect from it - particularly at its $499 price point - is completely different from MPC 2 or Maschine 2. Unless you want us to start thinking of Reason as a groovebox and sketching workstation, you're gonna have to make this make more sense to me. Why even bring this up?

I have a Maschine (MK3 and Mikro). When I want to use a Maschine Controller with more Studio DAW features and workflow, I use it with Bitwig Studio, instead. They are excellently-supported, there, out of the box, so I get the benefits of the tactile Maschine hardware while still having practically full functionality within a DAW that has a feature set more in line with what I prefer to use. And keep in mind, Bitwig is missing things like ARA2, but it also has other features that at least give many users the chance to say "Okay... I can live with that." They're actually pushing that DAW forward on a functional level.

Reason Studios is not doing that with Reason. They're adding more devices, but the actual workflow and feature set remains in stasis.

If you buy a Ferrari that's marketed as a sports car, you expect it to have features and performance of a sports car - not a base Honda Civic. If it has the price tag of a Ferrari and the features and performance of a base Honda Civic, then most people will just buy the Ferrari instead. Paying 40% of MSRP (hilariously high upgrade cost, when you look at it that way) so they can add in the sports seats that you just assumed would be there given the high[er] price tag is probably not going to hit well.

You would rather have an unintuitive ARA2 plug-in than none at all.

Absolutely... That's most rational people on the planet. That why we have colloquialisms like "May not look pretty while doing it, but it gets the job done."

I don't need the most flawless implementation. I do need a tool that actually gets the job done, though.

I would rather they use their development resources to implement intuitive features.

Like what? So much disagreement here - which I absolutely don't mind - with vague references to things that are never actually written out (which I find weird, since it's such a consistent thing to see).

I would rather they get other features done well than ARA2 or MPE editing.

This is almost like saying "I'd rather starve than eat because I'd rather have 'better tasting food.' It's edible enough, but it's not quite hitting the spot for me..."

That is crazy to me.

And again? What "other features" are you talking about? You imply that there are more important things that you have in mind - whether they're "in your opinion" or not, I don't care - I understand needs are different - but you continuously write this while not giving a single example. Why?

You do realize that I was just using ARA2 and MPE as off-the-cuff examples, right? Nothing depends on those two specific features. They were just used to drive the point home, because they're easy to type and because most people would easily understand the nature and impact of those two features.

[crimsonwarlock]

And using these libs is all they'd need for loading and writing FLAC files.

Indeed. And I stated that several messages back

So really not a big thing to just add them to the source tree and makefile and then add a custom loader/writer class and be done with it.

I don't know that, and you don't either. Without knowing how the software internals are structured, there is no way for us to determine how hard or easy it is to implement anything.

I really don't get why they've not done this in the last 10+ years, as it's a ridiculously easy win.

My guess is: It's basically a resource problem. They have to make choices, like everyone else.

[luckygreen]

I didnt need FLAC. But if there is a need, i have plenty other solutions.

Please define "need".

Do you need a fuction that loops a section of your song? Obviously not! Simply insert 800 bars and fill it up with what you want to hear repeatedly.

Sure, I can convert a bunch of samples from my sample library into WAV / AIFF for use in Reason (what I do). My sample lib is 100 % converted to FLAC because it saves tones of disk space without any drawbacks. But it would be so much easier and would save so much time if I could simply drop the FLAC-files into Reason like with any other audio software.

[luckygreen]

...
Converting samples to FLAC isn't really something I'd personally ever do for a couple of reasons:

1. If you decode them in real time, they use up more CPU than WAV/AIFF files, and
2. While many DAWs do support importing Compressed Audio, many of them will forcibly convert them to WAV - so, you aren't actually saving disk space at all. You are just changing how the disk space usage is allocated. Depending on how that conversion is handled (some will convert to 32-Bit WAV files, even if the source was 16- or 24-Bit), you may end up using MORE space doing it that way.
...

I have X TB samples encoded as FLAC. I have a sound browser that let's me preview what I'm looking for. When I found the .. say 20 flute samples I was looking for, I drop the files into my audio editor or DAW. That audio software would then convert the 1 MB FLAC samples into 2 MB WAV samples and put them into a temporary working folder. I can then cut, resample and otherwise work with those WAV files.

That process takes up no additonal realtime computation work and takes up just 2 MB of additonal (temporary) disk space. I can't see any issues with that.

[tewoc]

My guess is: It's basically a resource problem. They have to make choices, like everyone else.

Two options for missing basic functions that would attract and hold DAW users:

1. bad product management - for many years
2. no internal resources - for many years

Both options should be short-time and not "for many years" in a company.

[spacepluk]

The amount of product management experts in these forums is really extraordinary.

[crimsonwarlock]

Two options for missing basic functions that would attract and hold DAW users:

1. bad product management - for many years
2. no internal resources - for many years

Both options should be short-time and not "for many years" in a company.

This is all opinion, not fact. In your perception, it may seem factual, but it isn't because you don't have the inside information to make these determinations.

Opinions are fine and all, but they often have little to do with reality

[crimsonwarlock]

The amount of product management experts in these forums is really extraordinary.

[Creativemind]

That’s certainly a nice feature to have but, in all seriousness, if that was enough to stop your creativity in its tracks, there’s probably something else killing your motivation that isn’t related to Reason.

Well, at the time it was needed, after working on a track for an hour or so and it's late, you want things that make life simpler, not faffing about tryna work something out when you're in your creative flow and tired.

Another way of looking at it, working on a house track, you have a nice piano sequence going, then you add a bass, then strings, you've added a 4 on the floor kick drum just for now, you've spread the parts out now (sequenced) the parts for about a 2 miniute track now, you're loving what you have going, you're creative juices are flowing, you're in the zone. Now you need 2 or 3 vocal samples from a folder on your comp, you find 3 that are perfect but they're not in time or key, you need them to be in key fast, 5 minutes or even 10 faffing around kills your flow, you've lost it. The amount of times this has happened in Reason is untrue. We need a really decent amount of sample tools in the browser, tempo match with half speed / double speed, be able to change the pitch quickly (while tempo / speed isn't altered) in semitones, bpm display of audio with a wave display where you can quickly trim any silence off the beginning and end (in the browser), play through track option to audition with effects, key match too, reverse auditioning and crucially drag and drop the sample into the sequencer while all changes remain the same when you do. Ableton, FL Studio, Logic and Reaper have had all these features for years now, they're crucial in this day and age, the amount of times it's stopped me in my tracks is too many to mention.

Ok, I've solved the problem by using Reaper with the RRP but it's time for Reason to catch up.

[selig]

We're comparing a complete inability to do things in the face of capable alternatives to "it's not convenient enough," and I'm not sure that's a rationale argument one can realistically make in this scenario.

Allow me to clarify, since I seem to have given you the wrong impression.
I’m saying a feature list alone does not make for a good comparison between any two products.

[avasopht]

...

You completely missed my point so I'll make it as succinct as possible.



You have valid concerns and needs.

I also have valid concerns and needs.

Every single user has valid concerns and needs.



Our concerns and needs, however, may differ.



And because there is a finite amount of time available to develop features, our needs contend for development resources.



I won't elaborate on why I brought up machine and the MPC. I'm not trying to score argument points. I was just sharing a perspective.

It's obvious what I was getting at.

[WolfZeit]

Based on previous releases, is there a typical time-frame from a new version's announcement to the Beta testers receiving it? Eager to try out 13

[spacepluk]

Based on previous releases I never make it to the beta

[WolfZeit]

Based on previous releases I never make it to the beta

Yikes, I didn't even think of that Spacepluk lol

[crimsonwarlock]

Based on previous releases, is there a typical time-frame from a new version's announcement to the Beta testers receiving it? Eager to try out 13

Reason Studios will be at SuperBooth the coming week, and my guess is they'll start the public beta after that. They certainly will be showing R13 there and don't want anyone leaking information beforehand that they want to release at SuperBooth.

[supersmarter]

Based on previous releases, is there a typical time-frame from a new version's announcement to the Beta testers receiving it? Eager to try out 13

Reason Studios will be at SuperBooth the coming week, and my guess is they'll start the public beta after that. They certainly will be showing R13 there and don't want anyone leaking information beforehand that they want to release at SuperBooth.

I think that the hypothesis of "leaking information" is absurd because already everything is publicly announced. And historically everything they announce is a complete feature set that will find a way into the release. There is absolutely nothing to leak. If there is then that's some tiny or so small feature that they didn't even want to list in the public announcement.

These days everything is built hype before release so don't start me with the "they are protecting leak" type of thing.

It is very likely more tied to their resources and how fast they can build beta which happens to be much different than the actual release. As you may know beta is having logging system. Then there's the licensing system and who knows what. I think that the reason for "slowness" is not "protecting from leaking" it is about resources - just as they are usually slow with adding features. Not because they don't want to, they can't do it a speedy way.

I personally am shocked that they announced the beta and release date so short. Then they asked for people to join, and they still haven't started it given that the official release date and windows for testing are so small.

In that short time, people will maybe report something that needs to be validated, repeated, confirmed added to the priority, and then fixed. And then there's the competency of their current beta. A beta should have capable people. You read the current beta forum and it's more like a support channel. People ask how and where to install what. Terrible (and no I am not revealing anything from beta).

I am beta-testing UAD plugins, and Ableton Live, and doing testing for several other companies. Let us focus on Ableton because it is a DAW. Ableton calls people into public beta months before release, they are super transparent and the changelog is emailed upon every new build. That's how you do proper testing. You want to cover as many as possible configurations so that the most important bugs are ironed out. You want to inform people so that they can move on to another issue.

So it seems to me that Reaosnstudios beta is poorly structured and organized.

[spacepluk]

If you have a small team it doesn't help to have a lot of randos complaining in the beta. Bringing people that will give you useful feedback is critical and it totally sounds like the most reasonable way to structure/organize their beta... but what do I know.

We'll know soon enough if there was anything else to leak.

[crimsonwarlock]

I think...

Again, a lot of opinion, conjecture, and insinuations. And again without any factual knowledge of the situation.

Let's see: Coming week is SuperBooth, that's a fact. Reason Studios will be there, again, fact. SuperBooth is about showing new products to the world, and more important, to the media, another fact. Companies want to keep certain information close to the chest in light of such a media event, yep another fact. Releases of anything substantial are often delayed until such events, again an obvious fact.

You thinking there is nothing they want to keep under wraps until SuperBooth, is only your unsubstantiated opinion. And even if there is nothing special to show, delaying any release (including public betas) is perfectly in line with the facts I pointed at.

But of course, from your perspective (and several others here on the forum) it must be something else, and especially something negative. This repeated airing of negativity is getting very old. It's been going on for years now on this forum, and it's not a good thing

[Creativemind]

Based on previous releases, is there a typical time-frame from a new version's announcement to the Beta testers receiving it? Eager to try out 13

Reason Studios will be at SuperBooth the coming week, and my guess is they'll start the public beta after that. They certainly will be showing R13 there and don't want anyone leaking information beforehand that they want to release at SuperBooth.

[WolfZeit]

Based on previous releases, is there a typical time-frame from a new version's announcement to the Beta testers receiving it? Eager to try out 13

Reason Studios will be at SuperBooth the coming week, and my guess is they'll start the public beta after that. They certainly will be showing R13 there and don't want anyone leaking information beforehand that they want to release at SuperBooth.

Thanks Crimsonwarlock. By chance I'm visiting Berlin next weekend. If the day-ticket prices weren't so steep (39 euros) I would pop in to see the Reason guys and 13 in action.

[tewoc]

I think...

...
But of course, from your perspective (and several others here on the forum) it must be something else, and especially something negative. This repeated airing of negativity is getting very old. It's been going on for years now on this forum, and it's not a good thing

Ok, so i am one of the "several others" and I can tell you, that I don't want to be negative at all. I really hope that you are right about the discussed topic. But if you want to be realistic and look back to the last years, then there is only a little hope for all those basic functions (markers for example - and please do not talk about those "blocks" to replace markers. markers are markers). Thats simply because - how many said here - all time before they never announced something and then published a totally different Reason-Update to the customers.

It's realistic, it's not negative. We don't want to spread negativity, we want to motiviate the guys to finally change the direction that pressed Reason into an investors business because of missing success!

In my opinion you are emotionalized and way too optimistic and you are not realistic.
Superbooth will tell the truth next week, so I hope all the "negative guys" are wrong.

[avasopht]

...
But of course, from your perspective (and several others here on the forum) it must be something else, and especially something negative. This repeated airing of negativity is getting very old. It's been going on for years now on this forum, and it's not a good thing

Ok, so i am one of the "several others" and I can tell you, that I don't want to be negative at all. I really hope that you are right about the discussed topic. But if you want to be realistic and look back to the last years, then there is only a little hope for all those basic functions (markers for example - and please do not talk about those "blocks" to replace markers. markers are markers). Thats simply because - how many said here - all time before they never announced something and then published a totally different Reason-Update to the customers.

It's realistic, it's not negative. We don't want to spread negativity, we want to motiviate the guys to finally change the direction that pressed Reason into an investors business because of missing success!

In my opinion you are emotionalized and way too optimistic and you are not realistic.
Superbooth will tell the truth next week, so I hope all the "negative guys" are wrong.

Let's make it a wager.

If Reason 13 does have features not yet announced (even if it's a point update) you are obliged to upgrade.

[tewoc]

Ok, so i am one of the "several others" and I can tell you, that I don't want to be negative at all. I really hope that you are right about the discussed topic. But if you want to be realistic and look back to the last years, then there is only a little hope for all those basic functions (markers for example - and please do not talk about those "blocks" to replace markers. markers are markers). Thats simply because - how many said here - all time before they never announced something and then published a totally different Reason-Update to the customers.

It's realistic, it's not negative. We don't want to spread negativity, we want to motiviate the guys to finally change the direction that pressed Reason into an investors business because of missing success!

In my opinion you are emotionalized and way too optimistic and you are not realistic.
Superbooth will tell the truth next week, so I hope all the "negative guys" are wrong.

Let's make it a wager.

If Reason 13 does have features not yet announced (even if it's a point update) you are obliged to upgrade.

There will be some new rack features for sure (copy Europas engines, new combinator knobs, copy slots in mimic....)
I am talking here about essential DAW features nearly every other DAW has: Clip launcher, audio file preview in browser, track folders, video player, punch in / out, volume knobs in sequencer or markers. So if at least 3 of them are implemented to spread trust in the DAW and motivate for future: OK, then I will update.

[crimsonwarlock]

In my opinion you are emotionalized and way too optimistic and you are not realistic.

Read my last few messages (about SuperBooth) again. It's about my guess that they start the public beta after SuperBooth. I merely gave possible reasons as to why they would do that, but that is not something to be emotional about. It's a basic observation, based on facts about companies releasing things after such an event, which is realistic because it is factual. Nothing more.

It seems to me like you are the one with an emotional investment here. Me, I just use the stuff I have and have a lot of fun doing so. I'm not the one that goes on forums and tell people that Reason Studios is ruining my life because I can't have what I want

[DaveyG]

I imagine the whole RS team will be working their socks off right now, trying to balance Superbooth requirements with the extra workload that an imminent new release brings. So, yes, I'd expect them to be prioritising Superbooth and then jumping onto the Beta stuff straight afterwards.

I do agree that they don't seem to have left much time for a meaningful Beta but we have no way to know how long R13 has been kicking around internally. I just hope they have learned the lesson from the R12 release embarrassment and have waited until R13 is looking pretty good before announcing the release date.