There was already 0% chance of me ever using subscription, and with latest developments there is 0% chance of me upgrading from R11.
Its not just the 50% price increase (that the fanbois are defending with some cocktail economics), its just the cherry on top the shit-cake they expect us to eat.
-1 customer for me, from the look of this thread, Reddit and social media, I'm not the only one.
Shoot yourself in the foot, don't expect to walk gracefully.
New Pricing for Reason 12 - Upgrades now 199 from 129
Again, it's simply because the price increase isn't arbitrarily across the board.
The price we've had for the last 10 or so years was decided 10 or so years ago.
The subscription price was decided several months ago.
Chances are, the amount they think the subscription should be today wouldn't be much different to what it was 7 months ago.
But the amount they think the application should be sold might be different today than 10 years ago.
A lot more has changed in the last 10 years than the last 7 months. You don't need to hear from RS to explain that. It's self explanatory.
I am the same but ahead of the curve. I sold suite some time ago and got the free lite version so I can use my REs I bought still. I have no intention of ever subscribing and now despite being interested I won't be going back to full fat Reason no matter how fun it is. Let me clarify this - the instruments effects and players are fun, the sequencer is anything but fun when you are used to more modern implementations.artechokeheart wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021There was already 0% chance of me ever using subscription, and with latest developments there is 0% chance of me upgrading from R11.
Its not just the 50% price increase (that the fanbois are defending with some cocktail economics), its just the cherry on top the shit-cake they expect us to eat.
-1 customer for me, from the look of this thread, Reddit and social media, I'm not the only one.
Shoot yourself in the foot, don't expect to walk gracefully.
I don't even see some people as fanboys - more apologists as most can see that there have been some very poor business decisions here. I would love to hear what the old props crew think of these developments although I suspect most are long gone these days.
Yeah I suppose I worded that badly. They should have just said we think that reason perpetual is undervalued and just put the prices up. By linking it to enabling them to pay for new features imo it implies that the increase is due to the fact the new features will add more value which you could argue should be mirrored by increases on both sides. I totally get if they don't want to raise r+ price but don't flannel it up and say the increase is because of forthcoming new features and then just charge one group of owners for it.avasopht wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021Again, it's simply because the price increase isn't arbitrarily across the board.
The price we've had for the last 10 or so years was decided 10 or so years ago.
The subscription price was decided several months ago.
Chances are, the amount they think the subscription should be today wouldn't be much different to what it was 7 months ago.
But the amount they think the application should be sold might be different today than 10 years ago.
A lot more has changed in the last 10 years than the last 7 months. You don't need to hear from RS to explain that. It's self explanatory.
No.
When they priced R+, they already had this in mind.
The Reason standalone pricing was decided YEARS ago. It could not account for whatever led to THIS decision, because that price was DECIDED years ago.
R+ pricing was decided THIS year. So when they were having that conversation, they will have made all necessary evaluations, and so this reasoning will ALREADY have been factored into it.
So no, there is absolutely no reason for R+ pricing to increase to meet this objective because it was already priced with this objective in mind.
Name callingartechokeheart wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021... that the fanbois are defending with some cocktail economics ...
Classy
You're missing a decade worth of upgrades from R1 to R2 though.Proboscis wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021Nobody likes a price hike, but for me it just makes the decision easier. I won't be upgrading.
For those arguing 'cost of living', here's a summary, based on a rolling inflation rate (for Sweden) since 2011. If price hikes were to follow this, then the 2021 upgrade price would be $144.00. This announcement represents a 4x price hike above the theoretical cost of doing business.
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image_2021-09-16_112012.png
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artechokeheart
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of that type of communication.danc wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021ALSO - I do feel like RS are tricking us when they say there are 10x more people using Reason now since R12 and Reason+. Are 99.9% of them just having a free trial of Reason+ and won't give RS any money? Once their trial runs out they will be gone. I don't want to be negative here, as the claim that there are 10x more users - I just want "TRUE" facts... not politician "SLEIGHT OF HAND" facts.
10x the revenue (which is the implication here) would give them enough funds to grow the team and pump out much more content and features. They could afford to maintain a sound library on par with Native Instruments or keyboard workstations.
My money is on 99.9% of those people paying for the 3/3/3 deal (so they technically are paying customers).
I think there’s a lot of that kind of thing going on—shifting widgets from column A to bucket B to make it look like something is happening. there are also a lot of manipulative tactics to get people to upgrade. a couple of months ago it was the sale price to get 12 at like $90 (that was what, a 3 day sale?)—today it’s “we’re jacking up the cost in a couple of weeks, so if you still want in…”. even the announcement to discontinue Suite counts—people went out to find remaining copies of Suite at music retailers.
kinda shady, TBH.
kinda shady, TBH.
Yep, this is why I've been hesitant.guitfnky wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021there are also a lot of manipulative tactics to get people to upgrade. a couple of months ago it was the sale price to get 12 at like $90 (that was what, a 3 day sale?)—today it’s “we’re jacking up the cost in a couple of weeks, so if you still want in…”. even the announcement to discontinue Suite counts—people went out to find remaining copies of Suite at music retailers.
kinda shady, TBH.
Trying too hard to manipulate impulse buys is not a good look, especially if they will go on to betray trust a little. Imagine if you'd responded to an R12 or R+ promo, hoping to get your hands on R12 on September 1st. You've booked the studio and given yourself a week to get used to it, nay, a month, just in case there's a day 0 patch or something.
Then turns out this application won't be stable until another 2-3 months (and you just sold your copy of whatever-you-were-using-before to pay for it). That's something that would have been nice to know before taking the promotion's Call to Action.
Or think of the doting father who bought his daughter a copy of Reason 12 to support her music career that up until then had always brushed it off as a pointless hobby. She'll be so disappointed if she experiences any of the critical bugs or high CPU usage issues a few people were experiencing (plus the glitchy looking transport bar).
Don't get me wrong, I've no doubts R12 will be great once the remaining features mentioned in the timeline are implemented, but there seems to be some oversight on expectation management.
It depends on what you’re talking about. If you’re a developer for Softube, that’s probably not a good idea. I’m sure it would be fine if you want to sell even fewer than zero RE’s.
RE’s in the $9-29 space ought to be priced according to what utility they provide. If it’s more than $40-50, it had better be fucking awesome (CV Tools bundle comes to mind). No one is spending more than $100 on an RE of any sort.
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No, reworking rewards was in preparation of the fallout of a ~55% price increase on upgrades. That is ~25% increase for first time users.
Including more rewards was a strategic and very transparent move on their part given what was just announced. Potentially including upgrades is actually going to be less rewarding. Upgrade discounts as rewards is most likely not going to happen before the increase in pricing. So anyone waiting on them to include upgrades in rewards is still not going to benefit from the inclusion because of the price increase; increasing the price mid-update is a double edged sword actually it is another terrible move; much worse than the decision to release too early, however because of the state of the release a lot of users might not have upgraded yet. Now they're being forced to make a decision to upgrade because of the financial manipulation of increasing the price before they can wait and see what will change that they are not happy about in Reason 12 and as you know the short term roadmap does not account nor justify the increase. Upgrade pricing is more than double the price compared to the increase for first time users. There is no benefit at all. Even when you factor in rewards, there won't be a benefit in the long term. So the price increase has just made rewards null even with any potential changes that can make rewards beneficial in the foreseeable future. (199 - reward discount) * 5% will mean you get less reward points for an upgrade compared to what you would get from a sale price using the reward points for the small - but recently increased in size - list of rewardable content if there is going to be an increased cap is a better outcome. Most users have most likely used their rewards because of more content being added also, so they've already lost out on getting a discount for potential upgrades, in other words even if they're waiting on RS to include the upgrade in rewards they are still losing out because of the increase in pricing.joeyluck wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021Maybe this is also in prep to include Reason in the rewards section? Which if included there, that would be great.
If they can fix the rewards section by removing the point cap per purchase, and include Reason upgrades, that would drive it to be more successful IMO.
And if after fixing the rewards program and then if including rewards for subscribing to Reason+, that would make subscribing so much more enticing and keep more people subscribed to keep earning those points.
Opinions on a rewards restructure has now changed because of the increase in pricing so any changes being currently made or in the works will have to account for that increase in price as users didn't know about the change in price. Are rewards going to reflect the difference in pricing and make up for the difference in the pricing for first time users. In other words is the percentage of what users get back in rewards going to make up for the more than double % price increase for Reason Users, who are already paying customers and have given so much more money than what any new customers can give from now until October 1st.
Personally I do not mind having to pay more money per upgrade if that means more resources will be spent on making Reason even better. An increase of €70 / ~55% is extortionate compared to the increase for first time users (~25%). I could however justify a rough increase across the board, so an increase of ~24% for the sake of appearances €159. Which even with a sales discount would be ~€21 more money to RS as opposed to no increase. That sales discount would amount to €139 given the increased price of €199 which means we are still not benefitting from future sales but would be compared to a lower and level headed increase in pricing.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
And next week's announcement...
Whilst we are celebrating our largest number of users after the R12 launch, we've accepted Steinberg's buy-out offer for $200,000. We were positively choked at the value they put on us.
Just after they put the pen down, we are sad to inform you, that they will abandon the entire Reason DAW and RRP product range. They will switch off the online login process from this Friday at midnight. We recommend that you bounce any audio you have, although as you are all a bunch of hobbyists we recommend you simply start again with some new ideas. After Friday, Reason will cease to work for anyone.
Back to some good news - they will be sending out a $20 discount voucher for anyone wishing to purchase Cubase Pro 11 before 30th September 2021.
Thanks for all your love - although it has been mostly been hate in the last few years - we are now off to celebrate our hard earned cash. Please turn out the lights when you leave - bye.
Whilst we are celebrating our largest number of users after the R12 launch, we've accepted Steinberg's buy-out offer for $200,000. We were positively choked at the value they put on us.
Just after they put the pen down, we are sad to inform you, that they will abandon the entire Reason DAW and RRP product range. They will switch off the online login process from this Friday at midnight. We recommend that you bounce any audio you have, although as you are all a bunch of hobbyists we recommend you simply start again with some new ideas. After Friday, Reason will cease to work for anyone.
Back to some good news - they will be sending out a $20 discount voucher for anyone wishing to purchase Cubase Pro 11 before 30th September 2021.
Thanks for all your love - although it has been mostly been hate in the last few years - we are now off to celebrate our hard earned cash. Please turn out the lights when you leave - bye.
Check my Soundcloud:
I really hope for everyone’s sake that you’re right.danc wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021And next week's announcement...
Whilst we are celebrating our largest number of users after the R12 launch, we've accepted Steinberg's buy-out offer for $200,000. We were positively choked at the value they put on us.
Just after they put the pen down, we are sad to inform you, that they will abandon the entire Reason DAW and RRP product range. They will switch off the online login process from this Friday at midnight. We recommend that you bounce any audio you have, although as you are all a bunch of hobbyists we recommend you simply start again with some new ideas. After Friday, Reason will cease to work for anyone.
Back to some good news - they will be sending out a $20 discount voucher for anyone wishing to purchase Cubase Pro 11 before 30th September 2021.
Thanks for all your love - although it has been mostly been hate in the last few years - we are now off to celebrate our hard earned cash. Please turn out the lights when you leave - bye.
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ
anyone who thinks the price increase will lead to reason getting better is kidding themselves. The VC and CEO running the joint are awful people and do not care about you or music makers. People say "it's just business" but I think people who operate business that way are simply not people to trust.
As someone else in this thread said, Props/RS have jumped and basically failed on every marketing/biz bandwagon. Things started to go bad the day the brought in Alihoopa. It's been garbage after garbage since, with a few silver linings like VST.
I am sad and fearful of what is ahead with these ominous previews.
As someone else in this thread said, Props/RS have jumped and basically failed on every marketing/biz bandwagon. Things started to go bad the day the brought in Alihoopa. It's been garbage after garbage since, with a few silver linings like VST.
I am sad and fearful of what is ahead with these ominous previews.
The price hike (an obvious attempt to make Reason+ more attractive) doesn't surprise me in the least. But to announce it now, while R12 is in its current, half-assed state? Bold strategy, Cotton.
I'm not married to Reason. Live has been my main DAW for roughly a decade now. I can't imagine shelling out $200 for future upgrades, especially if they're going to get into the habit of pushing out major updates before even bothering to finish them to meet some arbitrary deadline or fluff up their quarterly sales figures.
I'm not typically one to complain much, but despite liking the new sampler and combinator, R12 has left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.
I'm not married to Reason. Live has been my main DAW for roughly a decade now. I can't imagine shelling out $200 for future upgrades, especially if they're going to get into the habit of pushing out major updates before even bothering to finish them to meet some arbitrary deadline or fluff up their quarterly sales figures.
I'm not typically one to complain much, but despite liking the new sampler and combinator, R12 has left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.
For me it feels like they want to push people to R+. Of course a steady revenue stream is needed to pay wages, etc.
On the other hands, times are tough and competitions seems to be tough as well. Also more and more DAWs open up offering pattern based approaches and more flexible routing and modulation.
For now I enjoy making music with the HiRes UI. Also the improved communication feels good.
For the roadmap, the used formulation does not say that non R+ users will get it for free - maybe, maybe not: `Reason+ subscribers will get these as part of their subscription and the plan is to deliver them as free point upgrades to Reason 12 owners too. `
I guess, making music will be possible with or without buying reason updates in the future. If they offer interesting enhancements, fine ....
Let's hope, it is a good move which pays of for the customers as well as the developers.
Best
On the other hands, times are tough and competitions seems to be tough as well. Also more and more DAWs open up offering pattern based approaches and more flexible routing and modulation.
For now I enjoy making music with the HiRes UI. Also the improved communication feels good.
For the roadmap, the used formulation does not say that non R+ users will get it for free - maybe, maybe not: `Reason+ subscribers will get these as part of their subscription and the plan is to deliver them as free point upgrades to Reason 12 owners too. `
I guess, making music will be possible with or without buying reason updates in the future. If they offer interesting enhancements, fine ....
Let's hope, it is a good move which pays of for the customers as well as the developers.
Best
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