Reason Sounds Sound Dated

[EdGrip]

I think about technicians vs artists. If you're best described as technically minded, then a room full of hardware - or the Reason rack - is an exciting playground full of possibilities. Cables, this into that, what does that do? Etc.

But if you're more of an artist, and the thought of getting bogged down in cabling and layering and parallel compression and technical stuff is the enemy of your flow and turns you right off, it's fine to want to work with great modern presets and out-of-the-box sounds. It's fine to be either kind of maker. But if you're the latter, maybe Reason isn't the best thing?

[fotizimo]

It is the shitty carpenter who blames his tools.

[EdGrip]

Also, I'm not trying to say "If you don't like technical messing about, maybe it's you, and you shouldn't be using Reason". I think it's reasonable to expect Reason to cater for different kinds of minds and levels of technical interest.

But also I wonder if it's partly in the GUI. Do Ableton's stock sounds objectively sound better? Or is the subjectively sexy experience of looking at the Ableton GUI, being part of the Ableton scene, and playing with a Push 2 affect how you feel about the sounds you're hearing?

[chk071]

It is the shitty carpenter who blames his tools.

Ask the guy who spends tens of thousands on a Stradivari.

[fotizimo]

It is the shitty carpenter who blames his tools.

Ask the guy who spends tens of thousands on a Stradivari.

The moment I find a person who spends tens of thousands of dollars on a Stradivari and says is sounds "dated", I will ask them. Some people are able to make amazing works of art with simple $0.50 pencils and pens.

[chk071]

He surely won't say it sounds dated, rather that it's the top of the top, and that it isn't worth messing around with inferior gear. I won't say that that is always right, but, having been there (i tried about every freeware VSTi there is...), i can only say, after buying stuff which REALLY sounds good to me, i wish i hadn't listened to the people saying that it's the carpenter, not the tool, and wasting my time with stuff, which sounds a gazllion time worse than some of the top payware synths out there. You get what you pay for. May not ALWAYS be valid, but, IME, it is in most of the cases.

Don't get me wrong, i think even Synth1 can get you quite far. BUT, you probably won't have such a hard time making it sound like you want, than with stuff which sounds the way you want, right out of the box. And, there is stuff which really does. There are simply synth, which have such a massive sweet spot, that almost everything you do with them will sound sweet for you. And there's others where you work, and work, and work, and it still doesn't sound right.

Take Sylenth1 for example. Such a limited synth. So expensive for what it does, and there's loads of synths, which were released after it, which offer more functionality, and more bang for the buck. Yet for a whole set of musical sub genres (EDM), it is still THE go-to synth, simply because you can get the typical sounds out of it, in great quality, and in a easy way. I would say, if it didn't matter, and the carpenter is the main important thing, it would have been long forgotten by now. Just like the Minimoog, which is still sought after by many, because they consider it the holy grail of analog subtractive synthesizers.

[MarkTarlton]

this is the equivalent of buying a drum set and wondering why you don't sound like the drummer in...

seriously though, learning your tools and stumbling upon the sounds you hear in your head, or want to find experimenting will come over time, but it's not easy at first...it is a fun one though, it takes time and knowledge gained from experimentation and learning as much as you can from trusted sources. keep working and you will get there bud.

[Exowildebeest]

It's hardly surprising that some sounds in the Factory Sound Bank sound dated - they've been included for almost two decades!

I actually think that's pretty awesome - they're neo-retro, a virtual museum of the old days of Reason.

The fact that they're intermingled with all the new sounds that were added over the years may make it seem a bit of a messy museum though.

[fotizimo]

Take Sylenth1 for example. Such a limited synth. So expensive for what it does, and there's loads of synths, which were released after it, which offer more functionality, and more bang for the buck. Yet for a whole set of musical sub genres (EDM), it is still THE go-to synth, simply because you can get the typical sounds out of it, in great quality, and in a easy way. I would say, if it didn't matter, and the carpenter is the main important thing, it would have been long forgotten by now. Just like the Minimoog, which is still sought after by many, because they consider it the holy grail of analog subtractive synthesizers.

i am confused, are you equating the ability to make top-tier sounds to the cost of the tool?

[chk071]

Take Sylenth1 for example. Such a limited synth. So expensive for what it does, and there's loads of synths, which were released after it, which offer more functionality, and more bang for the buck. Yet for a whole set of musical sub genres (EDM), it is still THE go-to synth, simply because you can get the typical sounds out of it, in great quality, and in a easy way. I would say, if it didn't matter, and the carpenter is the main important thing, it would have been long forgotten by now. Just like the Minimoog, which is still sought after by many, because they consider it the holy grail of analog subtractive synthesizers.

i am confused, are you equating the ability to make top-tier sounds to the cost of the tool?

No. Why? I think i just wrote that Sylenth1 is pretty expensive for what it does. It is just that it is still very sought after, just like a Minimoog, hence those synths are expensive. If i would see that my commercial stuff is very sought after, i'd raise my prices too, basic principles of economics. With "you get what you pay for", i simply meant that quality stuff in most cases will come at a certain price.

[joeyluck]

It's hardly surprising that some sounds in the Factory Sound Bank sound dated - they've been included for almost two decades!

I actually think that's pretty awesome - they're neo-retro, a virtual museum of the old days of Reason.

The fact that they're intermingled with all the new sounds that were added over the years may make it seem a bit of a messy museum though.

I think having 'Reason 9 Sounds' remain just the new Reason 9 sounds would have been better.

[Exowildebeest]

It's hardly surprising that some sounds in the Factory Sound Bank sound dated - they've been included for almost two decades!

I actually think that's pretty awesome - they're neo-retro, a virtual museum of the old days of Reason.

The fact that they're intermingled with all the new sounds that were added over the years may make it seem a bit of a messy museum though.

I think having 'Reason 9 Sounds' remain just the new Reason 9 sounds would have been better.

Yeah, that was a facepalm-worthy decision.

[Gorgon]

People in this thread need to get some avatars. It looks like some schizophrenic is going apeshit.

[Ostermilk]

People in this thread need to get some avatars. It looks like some schizophrenic is going apeshit.

[chk071]

Avatars are overrated.

[ravisoni]

It is the shitty carpenter who blames his tools.

This has already been mentioned before, but there's a case to be made about efficiency and the "type" of role you fit. You assumption here is that we're all carpenters. Some of us want to use reason not from a meddling/sound sculpting standpoint but a purely composition one. I cannot tell you the number of times I have personally stopped making a song out of frustration of not finding a good enough sample that I want "now" that would be readily available in some other DAW by default (for me it's Cubase). Good samples keep the inspiration up, they push you to continue doing more (the simple reward pathway), because you feel good, you like what you're making.
When you have to dig deep (and sometimes even then not find something that suits), it really hinders the workflow, and that's the real struggle for a lot of people who aren't into cables, synthesis and sound design. I purchase synths not because of the different ways in which they can mangle sounds but because of the presets they come with.
And that's what the OP was trying to say here. Reason 9 tackled it by giving us this new reason 9 sounds, but the old soundbank still just sits there, stale.
For those saying Reason shouldn't be the DAW of choice in that case, that's a silly argument. FSB isn't the only reason I use Reason, but a better (or an added FSB) sure as heck would sweeten the deal for me.

[normen]

They say Beethoven never really managed to hear the sound he had in his head while composing

[ravisoni]

They say Beethoven never really managed to hear the sound he had in his head while composing

Too bad I've got a different approach from his, eh? I don't see why any comparison to him is warranted. What floats my boat floats my boat.

[normen]

Too bad I've got a different approach from his, eh? I don't see why any comparison to him is warranted. What floats my boat floats my boat.

Apparently you saw the comparison warranted because nobody else made it.

[ravisoni]

Too bad I've got a different approach from his, eh? I don't see why any comparison to him is warranted. What floats my boat floats my boat.

Apparently you saw the comparison warranted because nobody else made it.

Apparently I did. No qualms.

[OldGoat]

Just take a look at the stuff people made with 2.0, still sound cool IMHO, but I know that opinions are like assholes...

http://web.archive.org/web/200308021316 ... ehardware/

"Choose your flavor.
No matter what kind of music you make, Reason 2.0 is the software to make it in. Listen to how Mad Professor and other top producers make the most of Reason. Check out the demos below and get exclusive Reason production tips from the people that created them!"



http://web.archive.org/web/200308021857 ... gs_Dub.rns

http://web.archive.org/web/200306180644 ... Reason.rns

http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... Rollin.rns
http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... Reflex.rns
http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... ustler.rns
http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... No_Way.rns
http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... s/Capo.rns
http://web.archive.org/web/200308021854 ... Hunter.rns

[Audiotic]

And yet there's people producing out there basing their music just around the NN-19

Interesting Video! Thanks for the link!
Although I would argue, that it doesnt really support the "pro reason sound" arguement, since he is basically only using samples! However it is reason's workflow and automation capabilities that make him stick with it. The work he must have put in the track that's being showcased is insane Even the loops are played in NN19s...
He even takls about a "typical Reason synth sound" that is instantly recognisable, which is why he doesnt use any....

I think in all these "reason sound" discussions (oh my... there are a lot of them) focus too much on the synth/sound/preset quality in comparison to the VST army.
For me the workflow, ease-of-use, stability and modular modulation capabilities are what makes Reason my (right now only) go-to DAW.
My experience in working with other DAWs (mostly Cubase + VSTs) is that stability and workflow (in terms of handling the multiple interfaces) is what brought me back to reason.
I only ever managed to "finish" one track using cubase without any rewire... and it's no better than anything I did in Reason
(Audiotic - For no Reason -> The track is old and nothing special, but that first synth and the screaming main one following, is not something you get out of the box in Reason!)

[Oquasec]

I'd have to say my current fav daws so far are Reason and Studio One.
But it's pretty great that studio one isn't necessary

[Gorgon]

And that's what the OP was trying to say here. Reason 9 tackled it by giving us this new reason 9 sounds, but the old soundbank still just sits there, stale.

So what do you want then? Change the entire old soundbank? And make all songs up to now useless?

[KEVMOVE02]

I experienced this very phenomena with the bass guitar. On day one of a new purchase, I was enraptured by the brightness of the percussive sounds coming forth with each slap and pop. When I noticed the degrading of my appreciation of the sound. I tried the fix the problem by buying: new string, new pickups, ne amp, new bass (4, 5, and 6 strings), new pedals, new plugins, new rack extension, new audio interface, etc. After reaching a point of no hope that anything would ever sound good again, I thought that perhaps the sound had become muddied by all the processing. So I went back to a raw, unprocessed signal. Eureka! That lasted about 10 days and the cycle began again... Fast forward 10 years and I discovered a secret: if you never ever use the phrase (or thought) "I wish I could sound like..." something amazing happens: you stop comparing what you have (or lack) with others and you begin to love your sound again. Or you could spend all your time and money chasing a sound that is as elusive as the feeling you get the first time you try something new. Give in to it and it will make you its batch. Sigh. I miss the days of a Portastudio 4 track, a Casio keyboard, a Dr Rhythm drum machine, and the audacity to think I could write my ticket with the music I could make on this poor man's recording studio.