Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[raveled]

I imagined myself for a minute being a potential new customers who knows nothing about Reason or Reason Studios or Reason+ or Reason Compact or Rack Extensions or Refills or Rewards or Rent-to-own (“subscription made right”, I think I saw in some advert some time ago?). Thus, I went to their homepage to get some clarity. However, in this mind exercise, minutes turned into hours and the more I read the more confused I became. Seems like the developers would more or less Take a Figure and put it randomly in front of various ways of me to pay.

Still love Reason though, but I think it is high time
for them not only to closely listen to customer requests but also recognize that their ventures into various business models in a short period of time is... well... a risky business in my opinion.

[EnochLight]

for the 3rd time I ask... since ignition key is no longer supported I ask these questions.. I have reason 11 suite authorized on my main computer... and reason 9 and 10 authorized with ignition key on my portable computer... does this mean my second authorized computer with literally most of the racks you have sold will no longer function with ignition key?
I sincerely hope this is not the case!
I paid for the use on two computers !
I own a separate reason 9 licence as well !... beyond owning a separate 10/11 licence.
I invested heavily on countless racks for both computers ... will my portable studio still function... yes or no?

The ignition key is still working.

The Ignition Key hasn't shipped with Reason in years and is - officially - no longer supported. So while it may still be working for many, it is no longer supported by Reason Studios. Many new computers these days don't even come with an old fashioned USB Type-A slot.

[stp2015]

You knew it would stir commotion, then the live webcast “oh you guys found us out, we better do a live stream!”, like the head guys didn’t have to block out that time in there Callander. Just shit patter in general.

Agree

[moneykube]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7521493#top
I think this is what you are asking about...or maybe not

not really clear to me... and if a bug fix happens in a rack... how does one update it on the second computer?

[Creativemind]

Make it rent to buy and I'm in but subscription......

I defo agree on this one!

Yeah good idea £19.99 a month Rent-To-Own.

So you're on 11 and 12 drops. You haven't got maybe £110 to pay for the 12 upgrade right at that moment. You can Rent-To-Own (which also gives you access to everything as if you were subscribing). So £19.99 a month and in 7 months you own 12 (but have paid £140-ish for it so £30-ish more) and can stop Rent-To-Own then. While you were renting to own you get all the things contained as if you were subscribing and then in 7 months you can stop, you get to keep all the things included in whichever version of 12 you're at but obviously not the extra things contained in the subscription. So maybe after 7 months Reason is at 12.1 or 2. Then you own 12.1 or 2. Then you get all other subsequent 12 updates before 13 is released (maybe another year later) as you have now paid for 12, so will automatically get perhaps another 2 point updates. You can still subscribe on top if you want to get extra sounds and stuff.

[vertibration]

I downloaded the free trial. As a current user, I would get it for $9.99 a month for a year......then in Feb 2022, I would have to upgrade to $19.99 a month. See, this is what kind of turns me off. Its that price point. $20 is a tough pill man.

[EnochLight]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7521493#top
I think this is what you are asking about...or maybe not

not really clear to me... and if a bug fix happens in a rack... how does one update it on the second computer?

Is this?

viewtopic.php?p=537607#p537607

[DougalDarkly]

The 'headline' from RS and some forum users is 'nothing has changed, just more options added' - this is not true - some things have clearly changed.

There is now a definitive difference between an 'old Reason user' and a 'new Reason user':

The old Reason user thinks sound-design is at the heart of why they use Reason - the new Reason user wants monthly 'soundpacks'.

The old Reason user buys third-party REs - the new Reason user does not.

The old Reason user cares about backwards-compatibility, and can load a song they made in previous versions (right back to Reason 1.0!) - the new user doesn't care and cannot play the song they made last night if the sub runs out today.

Put simply, there are obvious ongoing implications of the main fact that the old Reason user owns Reason - the new Reason user does not.

To put it another way, the old Reason user is 'invested' in Reason and its continued development - the new Reason is not.

At least it may finally put an end to feature requests I guess? If you don't even own the software, why would you care about its development - it's only worth what it's worth to you month-on-month right? If you decide that next month's subscription doesn't make sense you can just walk to the nearest (actually feature-updating) competitor.

To everyone saying that the next update will be the one - the one where they finally catch-up? I'll remind you again that track-folders were requested in 2008 - your faith is going from admirable to delusional at this point.

I don't think RS are lying when they say the regular update isn't leaving - but it will definitely have to cost more than a yearly sub no?

RS and anyone else can't seriously think the soundpacks are the usp? Soundpacks where the song you made with them will stop working when your sub runs out? I seriously can't think of any competing product like this - can you?

If you're a long-term Reason user and you think nothing has changed for you, then great, but things have definitely changed for me. I was looking forward to more third-party REs, particularly from devs like Noise Engineering, Robotic Bean and Lectric Panda, now I'm not.

A couple of random final thoughts - now that Codemeter is no more, replaced by Companion, will we see future Reason Cracks? Is this a hidden part of their strategy? We all know Ableton is probably the most popular DAW for many AND it's the most widely-available Crack too...

I think the biggest disappointment I'll be taking away from today is that I didn't know there were jobs going sitting around making Combinator patches!

[Billy+]

I downloaded the free trial. As a current user, I would get it for $9.99 a month for a year......then in Feb 2022, I would have to upgrade to $19.99 a month. See, this is what kind of turns me off. Its that price point. $20 is a tough pill man.

The bit that bites is your never going to get a license, 10 bucks a month for 12 months is 120 bucks that's about the price of the license so why not give us a license. If you decide you want the daw but don't want to continue getting the refills weekly and cancel your going to loose everything.

[EnochLight]

The 'headline' from RS and some forum users is 'nothing has changed, just more options added' - this is not true - some things have clearly changed.

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true. Of course there are changes now that there is a new service being offered, but the traditional purchase paths are still there.

[helmutson]

Another very bitter pill : All A-List Players are gone ... I spend so much money for them and now they are gone... vaporized . I use them alot. Whats happen when I wanna migrate to a new computer ?

What do you mean 'gone'? Gone from the store or from your computer? It's true that they were discontinued but they weren't "just" removed from users RE collections (I just checked mine to be sure). Also... they're not really 'gone' either, the original developer (UJAM) took control over them and they've been "replaced" by their originals (virtual drummer, virtual bassist, etc.), see this link:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... pment+GmbH

Can't install them again, right ? Same sh.. as with the Line6 RE's back in the days ... really guys, what are you doin' here ? This is unbelievable ...

As far as I know you will be able to install any RE you bought on a new computer. Being discontinued doesn't imply that they've also become unavailable.

PS : PM7, Syncronous and more are gone too

If you're referring to your own RE collection then I think you should contact RS support over this, because these RE's still exist.

I won't go into too much detail here because it's kinda offtopic (I also won't be commenting on it here anymore, but if you're having issues you may want to consider a post in Reason General) but... Apart from contacting support you could try to go to your products list (link) and then click "Sync all". This should synchronise your purchased rack extensions as they are known by RS with the situation on your PC.

There you can also see that my earlier assumption was correct: although the A-List series was discontinued they're still available for download in your products list. It's no longer an assumption but a fact, because that's what I'm looking at right now

Hope this can still help you out a bit. Those RE's shouldn't be gone, if they are: contact support, it's not a normal situation.

(edit)

once again... since ignition key is no longer supported I ask these questions..

The ignition key is still being supported, nothing really changed there. I know because I have one and the website still recognized it and its licences.

I have reason 11 suite authorized on my main computer... and reason 10 authorized with ignition key on my portable computer... does this mean my second authorized computer with literally most of the racks you have sold will no longer function with ignition key?

Their licensing scheme never changed, so things will continue working as they always did. What basically happened is that they added a subscription model next to their existing perpetual licenses.

OK, thanx !

[exxx]

The funniest thing is that they are insanely cheating on users.

Since a few years ago, we have been developing tools that we haven't even requested, ignoring the features that we need.

Why did they do a survey?

[Billy+]

The 'headline' from RS and some forum users is 'nothing has changed, just more options added' - this is not true - some things have clearly changed.

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true.

But any cash spent on the subscription service is washed away, the rack extension are missing and you can't used the content refills.

[stp2015]

The 'headline' from RS and some forum users is 'nothing has changed, just more options added' - this is not true - some things have clearly changed.

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true.

Suite is gone, Rigs are gone. I am guessing because those would have made "plus" look more like "minus"

[Billy+]

The 'headline' from RS and some forum users is 'nothing has changed, just more options added' - this is not true - some things have clearly changed.

Old/current users can still upgrade to new versions, just like always, and purchase RE's separately. This is exactly the same as always. New users can still buy Reason standalone perpetual license, just like always. So it is true.

But any cash spent on the subscription service is washed away, the rack extension are missing and you can't used the content refills.

[EnochLight]

The funniest thing is that they are insanely cheating on users.

How so?

[dv8godd]

Not at all interested in a subscription, and concerned at the cancellation of Suite. Yes, I've seen people say "but you're not losing anything", but I think that's missing an obvious point by simply looking at math instead of a wider reality. Props pitched it as a way to be all-in on everything they create, which I am/was. Even though I already had 90% of the additional REs in the package, it wasn't a bad deal, so I eventually bought it. Yup, I own them and they aren't disappearing, we're all in agreement.

But this change removes that option of being "all-in" on Reason outright unless you want to perpetually rent. (or sure, buy everything a la carte). It sends a sour message to me. Here I was tossing dollars at the screen saying "yes, I want you to know there are users who fully support you at a higher tier, even if i don't necessarily need everything"... and their response is to cancel it before even the completion of v11's run. They also never incentivized users like myself in any way to maintain that suite (never tossed a bone on new REs that base users weren't given, never a discount on new REs, just cancellation after a partial run). And I'm sorry, but "suite" wasn't pitched like a one-time purchase for extras... it was presented like a new tier to pay once and get it all without fuss, something that seemed likely to (at least) last more than just one version. If it was really a bundle of extras, they would have SOLD it in the store as a bundle of extras. They didn't. And here we are, those who went all in and wanted to send that message that we were all in...

... being told that's the past and we should rent to have everything now. Yay?

Not for me.

Now, I'm not jumping off the Reason ship, and I am a bit peeved that THIS is what they spent time on, but not so much that I'm going to run around with my hair on fire. I'm am definitely not liking recent trends, and I feel like there is a pattern emerging even if not everyone sees it. It's not happening today, but I feel like this is a shot across the bow that it's coming: the day when they say "meh, owning things is dead, you rent them now" on all future development. Which means the day when I'm no longer primarily a Reason user is someday coming too.

Don't get me wrong, I know they need to make money, and I fully support them doing what they need to survive...

But I locked myself in to being a Reason (buying REs and updates since v2) user because it was GOOD. I won't be locked in because it's only for rent. The base incentive just feels completely backwards and based on fear of losing something rather than excitement about what's coming. And a lot of what has come in recent updates has been mixed messaging with things like this.

[raveled]

Sorry guys, most of you seem to have missed that they changed the time of the live stream... it’s already over. Highlights are already up on YouTube:

[EnochLight]

But any cash spent on the subscription service is washed away, the rack extension are missing and you can't used the content refills.

Take a year or two off for (insert reasons), and when you come back and pay for just 1 month - everything (including all updates and any new RS RE's) are instantly available.

Also, any packs you get do remain usable even if you cancel your sub, assuming you have a perpetual license of Reason that's the same version, and own any seperate RE's that are used in the packs (otherwise you just get cardboard place holders).

[Crumbfort]

Maybe this is a premature assessment, but to me this sounds like the final nail in the coffin for us 3rd party RE developers.

The link to the RS shop is now hidden away in the footer on the front page, so it might as well not exist as far as RS customers are concerned, especially the newcomers.
Unless the Reason+ Companion app somehow highlights and/or lets you browse 3rd party products, the shop will probably be all tumbleweeds from now on...

And who will want to buy fixed RE licenses when they're subscribing to the host DAW?
Maybe this will cause a slight increase in RE subscriptions (if they promote them in any way, that is), but that won't provide nearly enough income to recoup the investment of developing new REs.
And when everyone has access to every Reason Studios RE and ReFill from the outset, they're not likely to buy a competing third party RE.

(Mind you, this development was not communicated in advance to any RE developer before today as far as I'm aware.)

Well, it was fun while it lasted!

This coming from one of my favorite RE developers is extremely saddening and fills me with more than a bit of dread regarding the future of Reason... I rely heavily on 3rd party rack extensions and it would be a huge loss if they ended up dwindling away due to these new developments.

I have zero interest as far as software subscriptions go, but then again I realize that I'm not the target audience for such things.

I've been looking for motivation to start using Reason as a secondary DAW again and it appears I'll just have to wait until later this year to see if any of my most wanted feature requests make it in (improved MIDI out capabilities, improved combinator, track folders, clip launching, etc..). Not getting my hopes up, though! In the meantime I'll continue using the RRP in Reaper.

[EnochLight]

Not at all interested in a subscription, and concerned at the cancellation of Suite.

If I'm reading things right, when version 12 drops, you can still upgrade via the traditional path for (presumably) $129 USD and get the new features being offered in 12 at that time.

[$(username)]

just ran a couple of numbers out of curiosity...

-assume a new major version comes out every 1.5 years
-assume a standard $130 upgrade fee for existing users
-assume sound packs/refills isn’t a major selling point for most users

look at costs over 5 years...

Haha, hypothetical math! I love it! For fairness you're not assuming any hypothetical Rack Extenions, though, and we have released and will release more of those. But again, and this is worth reiterating since it was perhaps unclear, the normal perpetual license is not gone. You can still stay with that.

What about some real math then? I'm into Propellerheads gear since Rebirth 1.5 IIRC. If I do the math then I'll end up with somewhere around 5500 Euros in subscription fees in that time frame. In reality I've spent maybe a quarter of this and I still own Suite, a lot of 3rd part REs/Refills and even a nice looking Balance paperweight that doubles as door stopper in the summer. If this would have been a subscription and I would quit it now then I would instantly sit here with an empty Reason application folder and 4000 Euros less in my pocket.

Okay, this is still hypothetical but I don't plan to increase my invest anytime soon as I'm only a occasional Reason user. So how do you want to hold someone like me as a customer? To keep the status quo in the subscription model I would have to quadruple my invest per year and that's not going to happen, especially as I usually don't care much about sound packs.

I know that the subscription is optional (for now) but I doubt that there will be any more sales or interesting RE bundles for perpetual users in the future. It's clear that RS keeps the perpetual model alive for now because they have to, not because they want to. The strategy will of course be to drive as many people as possible as fast as possible into the subscription model. Attractive offers for perpetual users would be counter productive for this goal. I personally don't use Reason enough to justify buying things at list price but when there is a sale then I'm still tempted to spend some money. As I see it now these times are over.

--

Another question that hasn't been answered yet: If I enter the subscription model in a year or two will I then get all the sound packs that were released from now to the subscription start or only the new ones that will be released after the start? This could sum up to a lot of sounds (and value).

[Loud_Silence]

What does that mean for Reason Intro, now that it's discontinued? Is it possible that after a future update of Windows I won't be able to use it anymore? Should I start saving money to purchase a full Reason license?

[moneykube]

Many new computers these days don't even come with an old fashioned USB Type-A slot.

the new computer I bought this year has them ... so... that is untrue

[hfw]

As per my previous comment, I’m interested in what people think about what looks like a marketing gimmick in the last update.

They planned all of this, with the reasoncompanion check box etc. They knew it would stir up talk. Then the live stream announcement. It’s all sly.

I think it’s that kind of stuff, despite how well meaning it is from props staff, is what’s wearing thin with users. We don’t exist in some millennial subscription all access wonderland. Most serious users want none of this.

Again, marketing ploys in updates. Just poor practice.