triggering seperate oscillators in thor

[Mich01]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find a way to trigger two oscillators in thor, seperately, like it was possible in the old duophonic synths (arp odyssey). I've been trying different routes, but can't find a solution. The triggering modes (voice key, last key an midi key) in the modmatrix, all trigger the total synth and not just the oscillator that I want to be triggered.

Greetz Mich

[selig]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find a way to trigger two oscillators in thor, seperately, like it was possible in the old duophonic synths (arp odyssey). I've been trying different routes, but can't find a solution. The triggering modes (voice key, last key an midi key) in the modmatrix, all trigger the total synth and not just the oscillator that I want to be triggered.

Greetz Mich

I would think this will have to be built into the device for this to work. I've long been a fan of the duo phonic synths (my first analog synth was a Steiner-Parker Synthacon, and I also love the Odyssey and Octave Cat - meow!). I've even toyed with creating a synth with that feature myself - some day…

[Mich01]

Yeah, I think you're right. Well anyway thanks for your reply. I will be puzzling around with the issue (keeps me off the street    . Maybe I find a working way with two devices and the Truth RE.

Michel

[thotbott]

Only way I can think of is make 2 instances of Thor in a combo and split the keys to fit where you want the osc to he played and rout the audio from the second Thor back into the first if you want to use the same filter on both osc

[selig]

Ideally the patch should play both oscillators when you play one note, and only then split them when you play two. That's gonna be the 'tricky' bit, because you have to address things at the note-assign logic level. But I'll say this much - the few synth design ideas I've had for Reason so far (still on the drawing boards) have included this feature mostly because no one else is doing it!

[Mich01]

Aaahh, you make me curious!!!
But I wait and see

Michel

[Joerg]

I don't know how arp odyssey actually worked, but you can setup a combi with 2 Thors and trigger them by Charlotte alternating. Distributor was built for that, too, I guess.

[selig]

I don't know how arp odyssey actually worked, but you can setup a combi with 2 Thors and trigger them by Charlotte alternating. Distributor was built for that, too, I guess.

Again the main problem is that a duo-phonic synth worked by playing both oscillators when you played one note (like Subtractor), but when you played the second note ONLY the second oscillator changed - the filter, envelope, amp, everything else stays the same. In other words, it's only osc 2's pitch that is affected by the second held note. So using a second synth via a "distributor" approach won't get the same result because (among other things) you wouldn't have TWO oscillators playing when you held one note.

[Joerg]

I tried yesterday and think that it is possible in principle.
When you take a device, that splits the played midi notes into seperate notes (I tried Newtrol 8 by Hamu, probably Charlotte and Distributer do the same) you can trigger the Thor by connecting Note 1 and Gate 1.
Then you connect Note 2 to Thors CV1 in and assign CV1 to OSC2 pitch. Because you are not using Gate 2 of Newtrol, the played Note is not retriggered but just Osc2 retuned.
It generally works, but I failed in correct tuning. Thors Osc pitch obviuosly ranges from CV -0.709 to +0.772 (C-2 to C8) and that is not common Note CV range (0 to 1).
I want to try Hamu Mesher 4K, which can boost and offset CV signals. Maybe RVL-1 can do the same. Then boost the Note 2 signal to 1.5-fold and offset it -.709 before feeding it into Thors CV1 in. But I can do that on Friday earliest. Maybe, you want to proceed yourself?

[Joerg]

After fiddeling about the CV to pitch conversion, I realized, that this is not possible. CV is not overriding the general Pitch but modulates the pressed note, like the pitch wheel.
So I came around with another idea, that I attached.
You need a midi splitting device and the new, free A/B switch (very handy device). For splitting midi you can use Charlotte, probably Distributor, but I used Hamu Newtrol 8. This offers the option to remote the outsourced Osc 2 parameters (I didn't cable it in the combi).

Place two Thors into a combinator and route Thor 2 Audio out 1 to Thor 1 Audio In. In its modulation matrix, you can determine, to which Filter you want to route OSC 2. Both Thors shall not receive Midi Notes, so disable that in the Combinators programmer.

Add Newtrol 8 and send the Midi Note/Gate 1 and 2 to two CV splitters respectively.

Send Note/Gate 1 to Thor 1.

Send Note 2 and Note 1 to an A/B Switch and trigger the switch by Gate 2. The output route to Note In of Thor 2. This makes, that in case of pressing just one key Note 1 is sent to Thor 2 and in case of pressing a 2nd key Note 2 is sent to Thor 2.

Send Gate 1 and Gate 2 to another A/B Swich and trigger it by Gate 1. The output routes to Gate In of Thor 2. This makes, that Thor 2 listens to Gate 1 if only 1 key is pressed and reacts on Gate 2, if the 2nd key is pressed.
 
Let me know, if that was, what you loked for.

[Mich01]

Thanks for finding out!
I wil try your setup within a few days (bit busy now)

Michel

[Vince-Noir-99]

I don't know how arp odyssey actually worked, but you can setup a combi with 2 Thors and trigger them by Charlotte alternating. Distributor was built for that, too, I guess.

Again the main problem is that a duo-phonic synth worked by playing both oscillators when you played one note (like Subtractor), but when you played the second note ONLY the second oscillator changed - the filter, envelope, amp, everything else stays the same. In other words, it's only osc 2's pitch that is affected by the second held note. So using a second synth via a "distributor" approach won't get the same result because (among other things) you wouldn't have TWO oscillators playing when you held one note.

Hello. I came across this very issue and was wondering if Red Rock Sound Ivoks actually had that function, since as far as I remember, the original Polivoks features the same Odyssey-style "oscillators split" when two notes are played at once. Unfortunately, I demoed it a long time ago and don't remember. Having owned an Arp Odyssey, I admit that the ring-mod happening at the right intervals would produce the most interesting modulations! I would definitely love to have it available in Reason.

By the way, I find pretty satisfying playing around with "monophonic" waveshaping on sine waves (i.e. sending two or more notes into a single waveshaper, which is different from per-voice waveshaping, as it happens by default in Malström or Thor's signal path).

[eXode]

The ARP Odyssey achieved it's duo feature by giving one oscillator high note priority while giving the other oscillator low note priority, iirc.

[eXode]

One synth that is capable of setting the note priority is Blamsoft Viking. I've had luck emulating the DUO function by stacking two instances of Viking in a Combinator. On one instance the filter is disabled and the VCA is open. I send one oscillator from there into the other instance of Viking which has one oscillator enabled and all the usual filtering, etc. Setting one instance to low note priority and the other to high note priority will give you the DUO functionality (or similar), i.e. by playing a single finger you'll get the full sound while playing two fingers you get one oscillator per finger.

If you happen to own Viking, I've attached the patch for your convenience.

[Vince-Noir-99]

Sweet! It is indeed working! Thanks a lot for sharing!

I was aware it had to do with logical distribution of hi-lo notes priority, in fact I was hoping to find a solution using the Charlotte module, but haven't yet succeeded.

Now I have a month to play with Viking and see... unless Ivoks has that feature built in, in which case I think I'd prefer getting that one

Thanks!

[kloeckno]

With some logic gates it probably would be possible to make a universal solution. When you get down to that level, you can do things that are normally only possible through programming! I'm thinking AND gates and some MIN/MAX functions may work, I'd have to try it to see if it's possible.

[Vince-Noir-99]

I'm definitely curious to know if you come up with something!

I've spent some time with the Chronologists' Truth, but to no avail for that particular purpose. I haven't tried hard though... https://shop.propellerheads.se/product/truth/

On the other hand, I've purchased the mathtastic Equation Bundle to kinda satisfy my MaxMSP nostalgia, and I'm pretty excited about it, especially for waveshaping!

[dana]

Here, i've done it with Distributor+Thor..

If somebody can work out how to stop it being velocity-sensitive on the 2nd note that would be great But using the built-in midi keyboard on max velocity (press 0) it works just like an arp odyssey does, i had a loan of one about 13 years ago.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44shp9mgacggj ... c.cmb?dl=1

[Vince-Noir-99]

Can't wait to try!! Will report tomorrow. Thanks for sharing!

[Vince-Noir-99]

Interesting. The first thing I've noticed was the nice modulation happening with the second note, I presume due to sync. It reminded me of the Ody's aggressive character. Very nice! I tried messing around with some settings and to be honest haven't quite figured the way it works yet ..

For those interested, I have finally bought Ivoks, which sadly doesn't perform the 'duophony' we're talking about here (split OSC). It does though sound fantastic, so I'm not complaining!

[dana]

Yeah, the whole point of the duophonic mode to me is being able to play the oscilattor sync!

It works by having distributor in reset mode, 2 voices, 1st cv/gate goes into the device normally, 2nd cv/gate goes into cv1 and cv2. the 2nd oscillator has keyboard turned off, and normally sets itself to the normal cv inputs via the modulation matrix.

(Sorry, did an eggy fart by this time when writing this - if you smell it virtually you will know!!)

cv1 in (gate of the 2nd note) flips this input via scale.. and i think another eggy fart is coming..
cv2 in (note of the 2nd note) goes to the pitch input of oscillator 1 only when the gate is triggered, its scaled between note1 and note 2 using the cv gate in 1.

It would be possible to output the values via cv1,2,3,4 to use on another synth where it has the inputs for these values, or some other way of pitch-shifting (ooho better go, think i need to..).

[Vince-Noir-99]

Just remember man: poo-poo in the potty is okey biscotti. poo-poo in the spagetti makes everyone upsetti

[raccoonboy]

I'm convinced I'm very close to figuring it out. I've just spent a couple of hours noodling around.

I'll probably have it in a couple of days. Using logic gates and some wierd Thor routing, but off out for a drink


Raccoonboy

[raccoonboy]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find a way to trigger two oscillators in thor, seperately, like it was possible in the old duophonic synths (arp odyssey). I've been trying different routes, but can't find a solution. The triggering modes (voice key, last key an midi key) in the modmatrix, all trigger the total synth and not just the oscillator that I want to be triggered.

Greetz Mich

I think I have a solution for you. I'll upload the combinator patch after I tidy it up a bit (I have it plugged into like a million volt analysers etc). Hopefully it's what you are after.

You will however need the 'Truth' by Chronologists (I think 9 euro) and A/B by pongasoft (which is free).

edit: That's it done now.

Hopefully this will do this trick. I've been messing around with it and it's great fun. Wanted to try that sync one above, but don't think I have the correct RE's installed

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fi ... 9067156348

[raccoonboy]

and obviously it's first note priority rather than high/low. I did here there is a duophonic synth out there that delays the incoming note by a few milliseconds and then decides which note is higher or lower and assigns oscillators accordingly which is pretty cool. But it's easy enough to just hit one note slightly ahead.

I've added a hold second osc button so if you are to hold down key 1 and then hit key 2 on and off the note will drop down rather than stick. If that makes sense. lol

edit: it looks like there are maybe some other solutions above, but I don't have the correct Rack Extensions. I couldn't figure out from the posts above if it had been solved in the way requested, but hey at least it works with only one paid for extension.