Why I Don't Buy Extensions

[Raveshaper]

Digital audio is made out of numbers.

If those numbers are manipulated in certain ways, they will deliver certain results.

The array of possible manipulations is confined to the scope of the RE platform.

Already, many popular instruments and effects can not be ported to RE from VST because of not being able to write assembly level code.

In many ways, the capabilities of REs match those of the stock devices.

REs are "buy it and get that sound fast" versions of patches and routing that would otherwise take users longer to troubleshoot and setup.

I'll just stick with stock devices, save my money, and get that sound anyway.

[normen]

You just made this up. The manipulation of the audio data isn't confined in any way, you can write any code to manipulate the audio. Whats confined is things like UI, access to the base system, how parameters are fed etc. You can't write assembly code because that would not be platform independent but frankly, who does that these days? One thing that was problematic was accessing vector functions of modern CPUs but the props addressed that issue. REs are NOT just combinations of algorithms that exist in Reason already, they are normal code like the algorithms in any VST or DAW. E.g. the Softube plugins yield the exact same sound as their VST counterparts because its the same code.

[lowpryo]

how would you replicate different distortion devices when the default Reason devices can not match their transfer function? add the harmonics in manually with sine waves?

how would you replicate the attack/release curves of different rack extensions compressors which are different to the MClass ones? would you automate the volume manually?

i think you are right on a technicality, because all sounds are just a combination of sine waves with moving levels. but to achieve most of these effects "the hard way" would be very, VERY, very impractical

[chimp_spanner]

I mean, good for you I guess man! If you can do what you need to do with stock devices, that's absolutely fine. Myself, I couldn't do the work I need to do without stuff like Antidote, Predator, Parsec/Noxious, A-List, Oberon. Or ya know, perhaps I could come close to them with a few dozen Thors in a Combinator but I wouldn't fancy rummaging through them all to change things or using all of those resources. I'm happy to pay for the interface, the compact/quick editing and the unique features that many of them have.

Of course there's something to be said for being resourceful and inventive and making the most of the devices that are included, and to be fair I'd encourage people to do that *before* they go shopping. But it's certainly not fair or accurate to say there's no point in buying any RE.

As for things being ported (or not), meh. I have Cubase 8.5. I use it when I really need those plugins. Otherwise I enjoy working/writing in different ways, in a different host.

But ya know. Each to their own. Like I said, if you can do what you have to with what you have, keep doing it.

[BPGeez]

Ummm.. Isn't that the whole point of RE's? To reduce the work you have to do to get that sound? Like any tool.. I could beat a nail into a wall with my hand, but I'd much rather buy a hammer but sometimes I do find it fun to try and create work arounds for not having particular RE's.. but then again, I am not the best (or fastest) sound designer Kinda going along with workarounds and ideas, the Reason 101 Guide is fuckin awesome! http://www.reason101.net/shop/books/

[BPGeez]

In light of the situation that you are the starter of the MetaPads Project post and I would guess have superior knowledge of coding and creating algorithms, I will shut my mouth Haha, keep up the good work my man!!

[Vince-Noir-99]

Sometimes I wish I hadn't started with REs. To some extent it is true that what the stock devices offer is more than enough to work, additionally, shopping them is addictive, and I'm quite annoyed by the fact they're not sellable.
I have 34 REs, amounting to roughly 650€. Never in my life I have had so many plugins, before, when I was mainly on Live. I don't recognise myself!! I need rehab.

[chimp_spanner]

I mean again, I'll say I take my hat off to anyone who really knows their way around Reason well enough to get new sounds out of it. I mean that Phuturetone 808/909/303 ReFill was just mindblowing to me. Better than samples, almost entirely Thor based. So I mean, I really should go back and learn the stuff that's in the box already. But there's no doubt it can be enhanced by REs, especially with some of the utilities like XY pads, CV panels, all that stuff. I haven't tried Metapads yet. Am I missing out?

[chimp_spanner]

Sometimes I wish I hadn't started with REs. To some extent it is true that what the stock devices offer is more than enough to work, additionally, shopping them is addictive, and I'm quite annoyed by the fact they're not sellable.
I have 34 REs, amounting to roughly 650€. Never in my life I have had so many plugins, before, when I was mainly on Live. I don't recognise myself!! I need rehab.

It's true man. I've spent way more on REs than I have on VSTs...well...actually probably about the same. But I guess that's crazy in itself because I've effectively spent twice what most producers would if they were switching between hosts that support VST!

[rcbuse]

i think you are right on a technicality, because all sounds are just a combination of sine waves with moving levels. but to achieve most of these effects "the hard way" would be very, VERY, very impractical

I was going to say this, but you said it right on. If someone was extremely patient they could create any sound they wanted just using 10s or 1000s of subtractors set to the sine setting and some envelopes.

[JiggeryPokery]

Digital audio is made out of numbers.

If those numbers are manipulated in certain ways, they will deliver certain results.

Sentances are made out of words. If those words are arranged in certain ways, they will deliver certain results.

Bollocks old of load a writing are really you.

[Alkua]

You are partially Rigth.

If you compare De-Esser made by Reason stock devices with Selig De-Esser RE, the RE is more efficient, faster and easier.
If you try to make a Parsec sound with Subtractor you will use 1 to 1000+ Subtractors
If you try to make a Synchrounous patch doing manual automation you might take long time
Etc...

Flower Audio Loudness Meter do better job than the default metes
Elements - Splitter do better job than default meter (even though is free)
Skope, Cannot be achieved with default devices
Buffre, Have be recreate manually

[pushedbutton]

I don't buy Rack Extensions because I have to collaborate with myself at work and my boss wont spend money to duplicate my rack extension collection.

[BPGeez]

I haven't tried Metapads yet. Am I missing out?

@chimp_spanner.. I have no fucking idea! That thread was lightyears over my head But whatever it was about, this guy is pretty legit! Way too legit to quit

http://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7490920

Anyways @chimp_spanner, I checked out your tunes bro! Great stuff my man!!

[gak]

[MannequinRaces]

I'll just stick with stock devices, save my money, and get that sound anyway.

Gives a virtual pat on the back.

[Gulale]

The deal breaker is the inability to resale the Re. Other that that I respect everybody's point of you. Buy if you like it , buy if you would like to support the developers, to understand what you have in your hand much important than collecting Re. Don't buy just because Dave Pensado says that Re is a bomb, it is a must have or similar gimmickish sales words. If you would love to buy EQ or compressor compare it with the one that you have in hand and see the difference. If you don't hear the difference, it doesn't mean you are not professional. It means you haven't heard the difference so it is useless for you to buy that product. Everyone's ear is different so perception will fool you. Expectation will fool you. Be cautious for every investment and move you make. Hey money doesn't fall from the sky!!!!!

[gak]

I think that NIKE is the reason for all the problems.

[Chizmata]

Digital audio is made out of numbers.

If those numbers are manipulated in certain ways, they will deliver certain results.

The array of possible manipulations is confined to the scope of the RE platform.

Already, many popular instruments and effects can not be ported to RE from VST because of not being able to write assembly level code.

In many ways, the capabilities of REs match those of the stock devices.

REs are "buy it and get that sound fast" versions of patches and routing that would otherwise take users longer to troubleshoot and setup.

I'll just stick with stock devices, save my money, and get that sound anyway.

couldnt agree more, especailly on the highlighted stuff.

[avasopht]

Already, many popular instruments and effects can not be ported to RE from VST because of not being able to write assembly level code.

At the most assembly allows you pick and choose when 80 bit float operations are quantised to 16/32 bit floats (though for strict IEEE compliance your compilers by default quantise with each operation), but isn't an option for SIMD vector operations anyway (which is what they're using assembly for).

In any case, no, there are no DSP limitations on how audio can be manipulated whatsoever regardless of how you're conceptualising C/C++. No ifs or buts, assembly does not offer greater manipulation possibilities. It's only benefit is choice of optimisation when you can make use of knowledge the compiler can't to make optimisations, if and when such opportunities occur.

[Skullture]

[DiZo]

fast or me:

rack extension is a good thing ffor me, for the time, its a baby sdk,i have time im not a pro

i make other sound with all my new synth, thor have fm but its not px7n but everybody seek not fm same for parsec...

with other dev, its new univers with each rack

and now i have with several mark a solid mix suite for work

[Jagwah]

I like Rack Extensions yay!

[zakalwe]

lol no. there's no way in hell you'll ever get the sound of DCAM modelled racks like etch red. it's not just the filters, it's the drive section. if i whack it on an NN-XT or malstrom it's like using new devices.

[dana]

You can only get so far, then the complexity is never going to make it feasable to use the combinator you have just made.

Come back when you have recreated polar.