To Upgrade Or Not To Upgrade

[Amyjer]

I have been a very satisfied Reason user since it was a synth rack for many reasons (pun intended) and for the first time, I am not planning to upgrade. Here are my three reasons:

1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players. That's perfectly fine, and I can certainly understand their appeal, but I prefer to play my parts. It could be that I don't quite get what they do and perhaps they can be used in ways I have not thought of (entirely possible).

2. The Line 6 devices go away. While
I can keep Reason 8 around to use them, in reality I will not be flipping back and forth between Reason versions while working on a song. There is no advantage to losing these devices. But this is not a deal breaker for me given other devices in the Reason rack and outboard gear.

3. I primarily record instrumentals and to the extent I have vocals, I am sending wave files to others (or importing them). The new audio features are of limited value to me. Even audio to midi is of limited value since I would just play the part.

That leaves the 1000 new sounds. I listened to some and they do sound quite nice. I am not sure they are worth $129.

Also, I now use Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression (MPE) controllers like the Seaboard and LinnStrument. Reason does not support the MPE standard. To be fair, very few DAWs do.

My absolute favorite feature of Reason is Blocks. It completely changed my song writing process. I can still use this feature in Reason 8.

Am I missing something? Are the new sounds worth the upgrade price alone?

If not, I will stick with Reason 8 and likely go back to using Reason through Rewire to access all the great sounds and Rack Extensions.

I appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks.

Jeremy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gak]

I can't remember where exactly my posts on this are so I'll summarize (did the beta testing)

-There is nothing "wrong" with the update, but it felt more like a .5 update.
-The players are fine, but I can do that w/o them (not as easily, but they aren't game changers to me)
-CPU use has gone up a tad (which it did in 8.3 as well)
-Bounce great, but if I'm willing to take a bit longer, you can already do that with the render (but it's not as elegant, I know)
-Couldn't care less about the pitch control (I don't do vocals)
-Do not like audio to midi* (thought it would be more like ableton)
-The sounds are GREAT! They really are. But I get great sounds myself**
-We're not talking about 49 bucks, were talking about 129. Which is more than I want to spend right now.

*Maybe if someone would do a tutorial on it WHY it's important? The manual wasn't very revealing and simply posting to allihoopa what you did doesn't show fuck-all as to how it actually made things easy breezy.

**But they really are very good. Yeah, many are what you get, but some of them have had "players" added and are far more inspiring.

Someday I'll get it, but probably not until they either a) ACTUALLY add some workflow improvements or b) it goes on sale (the upgrade)

[Amyjer]

Thank you for the very helpful reply.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Gaja]

Pianist here. I actually quite like the players, simply for inspiration. I often fall back into the same patterns/changes/rhythms... The players really help shake that up, giving new inspiration for rhythms or changes. I don't need to use exactly what the player did, but I can still build upon the inspiration it provided.
Also, in case you have missed this, the players allow for Rack Extensions like AutoTheory to copy their patterns into a sequencer track, just like you'd do with Redrum, which is a pretty neat feature.
I'm not buying it right away, but I will as soon as is opportune.

[gak]

I agree. NOTHING WRONG with the players, I just won't use them enough for 129 bucks. 49? Yeah.

[boobytrap]

I have been a very satisfied Reason user since it was a synth rack for many reasons (pun intended) and for the first time, I am not planning to upgrade. Here are my three reasons:

1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players. That's perfectly fine, and I can certainly understand their appeal, but I prefer to play my parts. It could be that I don't quite get what they do and perhaps they can be used in ways I have not thought of (entirely possible).

2. The Line 6 devices go away. While
I can keep Reason 8 around to use them, in reality I will not be flipping back and forth between Reason versions while working on a song. There is no advantage to losing these devices. But this is not a deal breaker for me given other devices in the Reason rack and outboard gear.

3. I primarily record instrumentals and to the extent I have vocals, I am sending wave files to others (or importing them). The new audio features are of limited value to me. Even audio to midi is of limited value since I would just play the part.

That leaves the 1000 new sounds. I listened to some and they do sound quite nice. I am not sure they are worth $129.

Also, I now use Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression (MPE) controllers like the Seaboard and LinnStrument. Reason does not support the MPE standard. To be fair, very few DAWs do.

My absolute favorite feature of Reason is Blocks. It completely changed my song writing process. I can still use this feature in Reason 8.

Am I missing something? Are the new sounds worth the upgrade price alone?

If not, I will stick with Reason 8 and likely go back to using Reason through Rewire to access all the great sounds and Rack Extensions.

I appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks.

Jeremy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players.

2. The Line 6 devices go away. While I can keep Reason 8 around to use them.

3. I primarily record instrumentals and to the extent I have vocals, I am sending wave files to others (or importing them). The new audio features are of limited value to me.

That leaves the 1000 new sounds. I listened to some and they do sound quite nice. I am not sure they are worth $129.

-------------means not to upgrade------------

[boobytrap]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !

Example 1 - Presonus Listen what users ask !(simple and must need) But proppelerhead didn't

AC.jpg (73.15 KiB) Viewed 2194 times

[joeyluck]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !

Example 1 - Presonus Listen what users ask !(simple and must need) But proppelerhead didn't

AC.jpg

Soon I'm sure...

But they certainly do listen to user requests:
Vocal pitch edit, send notes to track, darker themes, audio to MIDI, more presets / improved sound bank—all user requests.

[boobytrap]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !

Example 1 - Presonus Listen what users ask !(simple and must need) But proppelerhead didn't

Soon I'm sure...

But they certainly do listen to user requests:
Vocal pitch edit, send notes to track, darker themes, audio to MIDI, more presets / improved sound bank—all user requests.

Honestly users ask more than that. I remember R8 Drag n Drop become " T H E Workflow "( according to there commercials) ... they have to improve lots of things in arranger section. like faster workflow using mouse + wheel. copy paste, drawing section, some 2 or 3 button short cuts limit to mouse or 1 button. last touched note length, fade in out curve types. and so many things. people not just wanted easiest workflow but fastest. send notes to track is pretty good. 1000 presets is a childish thing for a professional. they completely forget the workflow. that's too bad. most of DAW's focus workflow improvements on there major upgrades. because that's what the users ask all the time. and PH really need to learn " workflow isn't only Drag n Drop"

[pushedbutton]

I disagree.
The audio pitch editing tool is worth the cost of the upgrade alone. In fact the only things I'm apathetic about are the skins and the fsb upgrade. The players are fun, fun is important. They're not critical to my workflow but I enjoy dicking about with them.
I feel like props have been listening to us and what's going on in the industry and they've done their best to cover as many bases as possible.
I've been using Reason since version 3 and one thing I've learned is that you might not get exactly what you want in the way that you want it but they usually come up with something that blows your mind.
Maybe 9.5 will include ghost lanes, then I'll be totally happy with Reason until I think of something else... oh yeah, and some clever way to handle lyrics...and maybe video integration...and a few other things, but progress is progress.

[boobytrap]

I disagree.
The audio pitch editing tool is worth the cost of the upgrade alone. In fact the only things I'm apathetic about are the skins and the fsb upgrade. The players are fun, fun is important. They're not critical to my workflow but I enjoy dicking about with them.
I feel like props have been listening to us and what's going on in the industry and they've done their best to cover as many bases as possible.
I've been using Reason since version 3 and one thing I've learned is that you might not get exactly what you want in the way that you want it but they usually come up with something that blows your mind.
Maybe 9.5 will include ghost lanes, then I'll be totally happy with Reason until I think of something else... oh yeah, and some clever way to handle lyrics...and maybe video integration...and a few other things, but progress is progress.

If I agree, you and I are become most selfish dudes ever. I'm really happy, that you getting fun for 129$. But that's not fun for rest of others. I also remember PH guys says that fun too. it's okay if someone bought Reason for pressing keys and getting fun. I can do that if I'm the last person on earth. but honestly I like you fun factor. that beats all. players are really FUN-ny..

[pushedbutton]

Actually fun is pretty critical for the way I use Reason as I use it in an educational environment at work.
If you're not having fun you're doing it wrong, in music production and in life.
Lighten up, every time Props upgrade Reason they get flack from butthurt users who think their idea was the most important thing in the world. It isn't, suck it up, maybe next time.

[C//AZM]

Well here's a different perspective;
1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players.

While they may not appeal to you, they're definitely not just for non players.

I don't play robotic nor have I had any interest in playing robotic. However, I love a good arppegiator. Even if I had Oscar Peterson in the studio with me and we were doing dance music and it called for a certain sound, I wouldn't hesitate to stick and arppegiator on a track instead of Peterson. That is, IF the music calls for robotic repetitiveness. Ditto for the midi echo thingy.
My chord changes are usually logical, theoretical and predictable, but when I use the chords player, all sorts of strange but good ideas hit me simply by clicking a switch. I can only play like me, and this player does stuff I would've never thought of doing. This helps me a lot by transcending my mind constraints.

Lastly, you can buy a good pitch editing software for more than 129, also you can buy enough Refills for 1000 sounds for more than 129.

[Dabbler]

Well here's a different perspective;
1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players.

While they may not appeal to you, they're definitely not just for non players.

I don't play robotic nor have I had any interest in playing robotic. However, I love a good arppegiator. Even if I had Oscar Peterson in the studio with me and we were doing dance music and it called for a certain sound, I wouldn't hesitate to stick and arppegiator on a track instead of Peterson. That is, IF the music calls for robotic repetitiveness. Ditto for the midi echo thingy.
My chord changes are usually logical, theoretical and predictable, but when I use the chords player, all sorts of strange but good ideas hit me simply by clicking a switch. I can only play like me, and this player does stuff I would've never thought of doing. This helps me a lot by transcending my mind constraints.

Lastly, you can buy a good pitch editing software for more than 129, also you can buy enough Refills for 1000 sounds for more than 129.

You got to be kidding. OP was known to chew up the best bass players with one hand. And you'd seriously replace him with a machine!
Surely you jest.
I get you are making a point.
But Oscar?
Man.

[boobytrap]

Well here's a different perspective;
1. None of the new player devices appeal to me. They are primarily designed for non-players.

While they may not appeal to you, they're definitely not just for non players.

I don't play robotic nor have I had any interest in playing robotic. However, I love a good arppegiator. Even if I had Oscar Peterson in the studio with me and we were doing dance music and it called for a certain sound, I wouldn't hesitate to stick and arppegiator on a track instead of Peterson. That is, IF the music calls for robotic repetitiveness. Ditto for the midi echo thingy.
My chord changes are usually logical, theoretical and predictable, but when I use the chords player, all sorts of strange but good ideas hit me simply by clicking a switch. I can only play like me, and this player does stuff I would've never thought of doing. This helps me a lot by transcending my mind constraints.

Lastly, you can buy a good pitch editing software for more than 129, also you can buy enough Refills for 1000 sounds for more than 129.

What a hell of a landing !

[Amyjer]

I appreciate the various perspectives. The idea of being inspired into new directions appeals to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joeyluck]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !

Example 1 - Presonus Listen what users ask !(simple and must need) But proppelerhead didn't

Soon I'm sure...

But they certainly do listen to user requests:
Vocal pitch edit, send notes to track, darker themes, audio to MIDI, more presets / improved sound bank—all user requests.

Honestly users ask more than that. I remember R8 Drag n Drop become " T H E Workflow "( according to there commercials) ... they have to improve lots of things in arranger section. like faster workflow using mouse + wheel. copy paste, drawing section, some 2 or 3 button short cuts limit to mouse or 1 button. last touched note length, fade in out curve types. and so many things. people not just wanted easiest workflow but fastest. send notes to track is pretty good. 1000 presets is a childish thing for a professional. they completely forget the workflow. that's too bad. most of DAW's focus workflow improvements on there major upgrades. because that's what the users ask all the time. and PH really need to learn " workflow isn't only Drag n Drop"

As a developer, you have to choose your battles and decide what things you want to tackle. IMO it seems like a well-rounded, well thought out upgrade. Pitch correction is huge! It rivals Melodyne and is certainly something professionals need and use. And has been highly requested by the community.

And again, all these other things are things users have requested. Updating with a new sound bank was definitely something people asked for and something that helps showcase even better Reason out-of-the-box. Folks also asked for new devices with new versions and they brought us something completely new and exciting that reinvents the wheel for devices in Reason. I'm glad it wasn't another synth or effect. I have so many of those. These Players helps bring new life and ideas to the synths I already have.

This isn't an argument of users not having asked for certain features. I too have requested automation curves. But reacting like certain things were requested and others weren't and thinking that every request known would be able to be implemented between versions is a bit much.

There have been many other workflow improvements between R8 and R9. R8 brought us things like the very handy zoom function, adjusting note lengths from the front, double click to add/remove notes, and some others. R9 adds things like bounce in place, double clicking a note on the piano roll keyboard to select all notes for that key, send to track, etc. and many things I haven't even used yet. It's easy for folks to overlook the workflow improvements.

[pjeudy]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !

Example 1 - Presonus Listen what users ask !(simple and must need) But proppelerhead didn't

AC.jpg

I'm still new to Studio One...But it was a surprised for me to see there request section on there site...It's as if they want you to request stuff.
It's almost like a democratic process thing they have going on..where users can rate the best request..and maybe that'll get implimented in a future update.
Take a look:
http://answers.presonus.com/questions/s ... s?sort=hot

P.S: there is proof on there request page that proves that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side Specially when looking at the "Fader undo" request...we've had that in REASON like for ever

[kuhliloach]

Hmmmm.



Yes.

[boobytrap]

THIS IS SOME OF MOST REQUESTED ! and PH refused ! these are asked since long time ago.

A stock made by propellerhead multiband compressor

Crossfade in the sequencer applied to audio clips

Audio editing

Rewire master

Blocks updated with more functionality four jamming (something similar to abletons clip view)

Updated combinator with more CV connections, more rotaries, interchangeable panels’ maybe? Where you can chose between more knobs buttons, faders

Layered editing

markers

A native video player. Media playback for film scoring

More frequency bands available in the spectrum EQ

Select tool in the sequencer

More fade in/out curve

Crossfade outside comp editor

Strip silence

Delay compensation

Neptune graphic mode

VCA faders

Channel folder

Filter in the master compressor

Mono master button

Channels peak meter option

Ghost midi notes

Tempo detection.

Matrix 2.0 - the sequel (this time it’s in tune) - scales and polyphonic mode with painting chords!!

Malstrom 2.0 - the sampling

NOT INCLUDED Proper Workflow enhancement (not tiny things)

only one thing I learn is you can't get these requests by a arrogant company. someone can say I have plenty of FX and Synth RE then I don't need anything again, that's selfish. arguing is useless. I'm really happy with what I have (R8) also someone can say this is the best upgrade ever PH cover all user wants. that's okay.. on my point of view I'm using my R8 and find an other solution for my needs. I don't wanna argue. my personal thoughts about this upgrade is a looks like minor upgrade and not to upgrade. this time PH get very sweet comments on there intro 9 video on YouTube. not like before. many of them dislike it. many of them start to switching from reason now. not like before. all these 2 years PH waste there time for allihoopa shit and ios apps. after that they make sudden quick salad upgrade before time out and this the result what it causes !

[Yonatan]

this is an arrogant upgrade. they refuse many requests !
...clicking a note on the piano roll keyboard to select all notes for that key, send to track, etc.

That´s good...but some crucial things are missing, is that piano roll keayboard should show which keys are pressed down when I play the midikeyboard, to easily locate myself.
Same when playback a midi, I should be able to see the keys it triggers.
And more so, when moving the arrow over the piano roll, I would like the keys of the roll to showcase the focus where the pointer is by darken the key where I have my pointer, and not only darken the key, but also the whole sequencer lane so I can clearly see if I am at the right lane when double clicking. This should also be the case when my pointer is browsing the sequencer area, that it all the time shows where I am on the piano roll.

At the moment, the piano roll is so tiny and I often click the wrong keys or lanes just because I cannot see where I am.
I am quite surprised that after so many years, such common sense things in the sequencer, is still missing.
I cannot be the only one struggling with knowing where I am on the keys, lanes etc.
As it is missing, I get so tired every time I try to program or edit a midi track.
These additions would save me tons of time and headache. Simple things, but for workflow, it would mean everything.

[Gaja]

Yeah I don't think it's an arrogant update. I also don't think Propellerhead is arrogant. Boobytrap, you're expecting too much. A few points I don't get why it's so important.
We have at least seven possible multiband compressor solutions available right now. It's a little bit like complaining about having all the ingredients for a pizza, three different pizzas on the table already, but you're almost dying of hunger, even though these pizzas were fresh, hot and ready for the last months (years actually), but you didn't like the taste of them, so you decided to starve and blame someone else for not making the exact one pizza you want.
Markers are totally possible in Reason. They're not golden like the ones in PT, but you can mark things and note things right in the sequencer.
Why can't you select the tools in the sequencer? I've been easily doing that since Reason 2.5. when the cursor tool is selected, you can switch to the pencil (for example) by pressing ctrl (cmd on mac). QWERT are your tools, also at the top of the sequencer you can chose tools.
VCA faders are possible in Reason right now, but cumbersome to set up. I've never really needed VCA fader before, I could always use a bus and change all levels there.
Mono master button is so terribly simple to set up. Just assign a key via keyboard override and you don't even have to go to the mixer to check. Save as preset, done.
Matrix 2.0 is pretty much the players afaict. What should the matrix 2.0 do that the players can't?
Sampling in Malström won't happen, we've discussed this for years already. Creating graintables is a very tedious process that can not be automated. You'd have to create additional software and by hand slice the thing up, it would take hours for one graintable to be created. They won't do it, because people would be in the trench about the half arsed way they "implemented" the feature.
The other feature requests I totally dig. If it's not possible we can cry about it, but if it's possible we should use the workaround in the meantime I'd say.
Also the upgrade wasn't auick and sudden at all. If you recall it took about two years for them to upgrade. I'd guess the pitch editing took up most of the development time (yes waaaay more than allihoopa)

[boobytrap]

according to this R8 intro video workflow is only Drag & Drop. and they call it Flow that works. but workflow is more than that. in reality without improving fast editing and moving in sequencer, that'll become THE WORK THAT FLOW AWAY !
when I'm using fl studio I lay down on my bed with my mouse and can do everything I want without touching my keyboard. that's workflow !

[boobytrap]

you're expecting too much.

Those aren't mine. I just ask automation curves only..

[Gaja]

It's so funny how you want to do everything with the mouse. In ProTools workflow means doing everything with the keyboard, without touching the mouse.
Automation curves would be nice, bit you can still make killer fades and sweeps without them (approximation is enough - nobody listening to your music will say "oh damn I wish he had used a curve for his automation instead of the approximation, this is unbearable") anyway approximation is not gonna help the perfectionist inside us; as a foley artist in germany doing a lot of TV stuff, believe me I know full well. But it's certainly better to approximate, than to not do anything.