one thing with using blocks is a problem

[MitchClark89]

hello to all the reason friends

i am just now beginning to see a drawback with using blocks (i love them up until now) is that things such as reverb/delay/fade out/fade in etc obviosly do not continue from one block pattern to the next without a lot of painful copy/pasting and and automation. does anyone know what i mean? say i have nice pattern block 1 which has nice delays and reverb on guitar that go straight into block 2 pattern, the cut off between the two block is absolute and immediate. it is quite obvious.

does any one know of this problem and how to fix? i suppose i could always copy all block patterns etc into the "song" sequencer once all arrangements are finalised.

thanks for all the help

[JiggeryPokery]

Blocks are handy if one does very repetitive music with no automation or note changes, but imo they are terrible for anything else, and far more trouble than they are worth when, as invariably as you point out, one then has to dupe or create new clips on top of blocks in the main sequencer, or just change one note in a Block. So while I know some love the blocks workflow, and that's cool for them, personally I find I'd rather just stay in the main Sequencer and use drag-copy. And without the ability to trigger Blocks other than drawing in the Sequencer, the implementation of Blocks always felt like half a feature, and this was both pointed out by others at the time they appeared, and not fixed since.

I get the feeling, based on discussions I've had about this with others, is that PH mistook Blocks as an Arranger. I vaguely recall they suggested that kind of behaviour in videos when they first appeared: you know, like easily creating verses and choruses and bridges using Blocks. But they're quite different things. An Arranger, to describe it as simply as possible, is more like a series of programmable loop markers you could use in a very similar way to how sheet music uses bar repeat and coda marks to guide the musician back and forth. With Blocks, you still have to draw in a new Block with the section and drag bits around, delete bits, shuffle orders around.

I would love to have an Arranger for the sequencer: the clip order wouldn't change, but the playhead would jump around to each bar as set in the Arranger programmer.

(Yes, in your original issues you'd still potentially have an issue with automation that was beyond the markers, but like with Blocks, there are similar workarounds, and they're on the same screen!)

[MitchClark89]

Blocks are handy if one does very repetitive music with no automation or note changes, but imo they are terrible for anything else, and far more trouble than they are worth when, as invariably as you point out, one then has to dupe or create new clips on top of blocks in the main sequencer, or just change one note in a Block. So while I know some love the blocks workflow, and that's cool for them, personally I find I'd rather just stay in the main Sequencer and use drag-copy. And without the ability to trigger Blocks other than drawing in the Sequencer, the implementation of Blocks always felt like half a feature, and this was both pointed out by others at the time they appeared, and not fixed since.

I get the feeling, based on discussions I've had about this with others, is that PH mistook Blocks as an Arranger. I vaguely recall they suggested that kind of behaviour in videos when they first appeared: you know, like easily creating verses and choruses and bridges using Blocks. But they're quite different things. An Arranger, to describe it as simply as possible, is more like a series of programmable loop markers you could use in a very similar way to how sheet music uses bar repeat and coda marks to guide the musician back and forth. With Blocks, you still have to draw in a new Block with the section and drag bits around, delete bits, shuffle orders around.

I would love to have an Arranger for the sequencer: the clip order wouldn't change, but the playhead would jump around to each bar as set in the Arranger programmer.

(Yes, in your original issues you'd still potentially have an issue with automation that was beyond the markers, but like with Blocks, there are similar workarounds, and they're on the same screen!)

thank you very much for the comprehensive reply! i own your chenille chorus (love it so much) and just today bought delay bbd REs (have not tried this one yet). it is very nice and lucky for us to chat with the creative brains behind excellent software

yes i now know what you mean. so far i have been using hte blocks as a way to roughly plan a song, as you pointed out =intro verse chorus verse break bridge chorus verse etc and then drawing the block in sequencer to have a draft song laid out. i think i have been too lazy and just leaving many projects in this format and thinking 'i wil fix this later' (much the same as i do approach mixing down and the mastering *groan*). i think now is the appropriate time that i copy those patterns/instruments/midis etc out of the blocks and paste into the main sequencer. after all this is how i use to do the work in cubase a long time ago and then logic and then back to reason.

thank you jiggery pokery for just helping me to see that i am limited in my approach based on the limitation of the block.

[normen]

I don't quite understand the issue, somebody care to explain a bit more? The way I see it blocks are just the content of the sequencer lanes, right? Whats the difference between copy-pasting all lanes and block lanes then?

I mean if you have a send automated in a block to create some "one-word-delay" at the end of the block then the actual delay would be heard beyond the block sequence in the main arrangement, no?

[chimp_spanner]

I mean, I kinda look at blocks as more of a writing aid. Try not to get too bogged down with automation and tails and stuff. Just work out your sections, experiment with different arrangements then when you're happy, convert blocks to note clips and start going over the fine details. Thats what I'd do anyway.

It's not something I'd use but I can see how phrase or clip launchers would be super useful in Reason. Not sure how they'd be integrated into the rack paradigm but.,,that's someone else's job

[Raveshaper]

I would recommend keeping automation in song mode and use blocks to write if that's your preferred way of writing. That way everything but the automaton would be in the block, allowing the automation to remain seamless the way you want it.

[Kalm]

I use to have the same concern as you with blocks since I always sequenced without it. Blocks seemed to interrupt that movement between two parts that would seamlessly change. But if you work with patterned base music, I've stopped trying to fight it and learn to use its strength. Changing the scheme to gray and silver colors and leaving any instruments that don't play nice with blocks outside the patterns along with their respective colors makes producing easier for me personally. Transitions, sustained performances, non-repetitive automation I keep outside blocks. Made arranging things faster.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

I think understand what you are saying and this is one reason why I stopped using blocks (well I tried using them but hit a number of workflows I did not like etc.) however I do tend to use blocks at the end of my tracks as then I can have a number of different endings switch between them quickly without having to mute tracks etc.

I think blocks would be more handy if you could overlap them but then you get into issues if you are overlaying or overwriting and priorities etc.

I don't quite understand the issue, somebody care to explain a bit more? The way I see it blocks are just the content of the sequencer lanes, right? Whats the difference between copy-pasting all lanes and block lanes then?

From my point of view and the original poster may also be saying this, it's what I call the overhangs, simple example would be a fade out of an instrument using a fader. so for simplicity, I have 8 bars and in my block, I'm using the first 4 tracks, the first 4 bars have my notes but the last 4 bars I using to fade an instrument out on track 4, in my next block again I have 8 bars using tracks 1,2,5,6 but really I want to butt this up to the part of where in my notes finish in the first block (end of bar 4), but doing so means I lose my fade out, if I was to copy and paste the data out of the blocks it would work, as I said this was a simple example.

[theshoemaker]

I use everything in block mode ... effects ... automation ... just everything. When I'm done with the arrangement, I add an overlay in songmode to glue stuff together and fix flaws from the block transitions.

[normen]

From my point of view and the original poster may also be saying this, it's what I call the overhangs, simple example would be a fade out of an instrument using a fader.

Ah. Like stuff in general where not all parts end on one specific bar, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up.

[selig]

hello to all the reason friends

i am just now beginning to see a drawback with using blocks (i love them up until now) is that things such as reverb/delay/fade out/fade in etc obviosly do not continue from one block pattern to the next without a lot of painful copy/pasting and and automation. does anyone know what i mean? say i have nice pattern block 1 which has nice delays and reverb on guitar that go straight into block 2 pattern, the cut off between the two block is absolute and immediate. it is quite obvious.

does any one know of this problem and how to fix? i suppose i could always copy all block patterns etc into the "song" sequencer once all arrangements are finalised.

thanks for all the help

I just checked, and blocks do not cut off the decay of a reverb or delay. What exactly are you doing that causes this on your end?

[dioxide]

hello to all the reason friends

i am just now beginning to see a drawback with using blocks (i love them up until now) is that things such as reverb/delay/fade out/fade in etc obviosly do not continue from one block pattern to the next without a lot of painful copy/pasting and and automation. does anyone know what i mean? say i have nice pattern block 1 which has nice delays and reverb on guitar that go straight into block 2 pattern, the cut off between the two block is absolute and immediate. it is quite obvious.

does any one know of this problem and how to fix? i suppose i could always copy all block patterns etc into the "song" sequencer once all arrangements are finalised.

thanks for all the help

I just checked, and blocks do not cut off the decay of a reverb or delay. What exactly are you doing that causes this on your end?

My guess is he meant when the reverb is part of the recorded audio rather than live reverb effects?

[MitchClark89]

I just checked, and blocks do not cut off the decay of a reverb or delay. What exactly are you doing that causes this on your end?

hi selig yes i can tell you that- in this particular example is a rex loop (background drum fill with cymbal 4.4.3 of bar for example) in a block (block 4) that when in the sequencer i go from block 4 to block chorus for eg, the rex note is cut abruptly instead of cymbal ringing out. i think this is what chimp_spanner called "tails". it is not a big deal in this case as is only one instrument and i can take it from the block and paste into sequencer instead but in other examples there are more than one instances in the same block which makes me think "too hard" and go to another project

i would also like to thank all other users for the contributions to this thread - i learn so much from all this information and thoughts.

[selig]

I just checked, and blocks do not cut off the decay of a reverb or delay. What exactly are you doing that causes this on your end?

hi selig yes i can tell you that- in this particular example is a rex loop (background drum fill with cymbal 4.4.3 of bar for example) in a block (block 4) that when in the sequencer i go from block 4 to block chorus for eg, the rex note is cut abruptly instead of cymbal ringing out. i think this is what chimp_spanner called "tails". it is not a big deal in this case as is only one instrument and i can take it from the block and paste into sequencer instead but in other examples there are more than one instances in the same block which makes me think "too hard" and go to another project

i would also like to thank all other users for the contributions to this thread - i learn so much from all this information and thoughts.

OK I see what you're talking about now. Luckily, the fix is really simple - just set the Release time to the max on the Dr Octa Rex and Bob's your uncle.

[artotaku]

I would recommend keeping automation in song mode and use blocks to write if that's your preferred way of writing. That way everything but the automaton would be in the block, allowing the automation to remain seamless the way you want it.

This^. My kind of music has a lot of repetitive elements that repeat all 4 or 8 bars which is nice to note down at just one place in block mode but I try to keep it moving and interesting using automation in song mode. A nice trick for note variation is to cut holes or overwrite parts with other clips in song mode.
If note data changes a lot, blocks may not be the appropriate strategy.

[MitchClark89]

then when you're happy, convert blocks to note clips and start going over the fine details. Thats what I'd do anyway.

hello chimpspanner thanks for your good reply. i was wondering could you tell me what you mean about exporting a block to note clips? is this easier than copy pasting all clips within a block back out into the song sequencer? thank you

[MitchClark89]

I would recommend keeping automation in song mode and use blocks to write if that's your preferred way of writing. That way everything but the automaton would be in the block, allowing the automation to remain seamless the way you want it.

This^. My kind of music has a lot of repetitive elements that repeat all 4 or 8 bars which is nice to note down at just one place in block mode but I try to keep it moving and interesting using automation in song mode. A nice trick for note variation is to cut holes or overwrite parts with other clips in song mode.
If note data changes a lot, blocks may not be the appropriate strategy.

my music i suppose it falls into hiphop/rock and some edm at times so there is quite a bit of the repetitions in the core structure of the song. i will play around like you have suggested. sometime it is hard not to just do all the automation etcs as you listen in the block, will have to remind myself! also thanks to rave shaper for the helpful reply

[Kalm]

I use everything in block mode ... effects ... automation ... just everything. When I'm done with the arrangement, I add an overlay in songmode to glue stuff together and fix flaws from the block transitions.

This. I stopped fighting what I couldn't do and kind of appreciated what I could do with it. It beats having to copy and paste everywhere in Pro Tools while the only thing I know they have close is MIDI Mirroring. <---- Now thats an idea Props can check out. Name a clip and any clips with those designated names could function as MIDI Mirroring.

[selig]

I use everything in block mode ... effects ... automation ... just everything. When I'm done with the arrangement, I add an overlay in songmode to glue stuff together and fix flaws from the block transitions.

This. I stopped fighting what I couldn't do and kind of appreciated what I could do with it. It beats having to copy and paste everywhere in Pro Tools while the only thing I know they have close is MIDI Mirroring. <---- Now thats an idea Props can check out. Name a clip and any clips with those designated names could function as MIDI Mirroring.

I never got along with MIDI Mirroring in PT - maybe it's better now, but at first it was easy to 'break' the connection between the regions/clips, and not always clear what was linked to what.

The system that worked best for me in this regard was Studio Vision (Opcode systems), which was based on having 26 complete sequencers (lettered A-Z) that you could trigger from alpha keys, MIDI keys, or type into a list to be played back in order (an advanced 'clip launching' feature long before Ableton Live).

[Kalm]

I use everything in block mode ... effects ... automation ... just everything. When I'm done with the arrangement, I add an overlay in songmode to glue stuff together and fix flaws from the block transitions.

This. I stopped fighting what I couldn't do and kind of appreciated what I could do with it. It beats having to copy and paste everywhere in Pro Tools while the only thing I know they have close is MIDI Mirroring. <---- Now thats an idea Props can check out. Name a clip and any clips with those designated names could function as MIDI Mirroring.

I never got along with MIDI Mirroring in PT - maybe it's better now, but at first it was easy to 'break' the connection between the regions/clips, and not always clear what was linked to what.

The system that worked best for me in this regard was Studio Vision (Opcode systems), which was based on having 26 complete sequencers (lettered A-Z) that you could trigger from alpha keys, MIDI keys, or type into a list to be played back in order (an advanced 'clip launching' feature long before Ableton Live).

I know what you mean, its identifier rest solely on the clip name so if you alter the clip in any capacity such as splitting it, renaming it, anything that causes PT to create a brand new clip instance. . . it'll treat the new clip like its not part of the family . I actually use Studio One's arrange quite a bit when I export my tracks from reason but they too have a slight issue with not overlapping or I've not learned how to force the arrange to do so.

[RandomSkratch]

Blocks are cool but I'd like the ability to right click on a block part in song mode and convert it to a song clip so I can modify (or maybe double click?). Currently would have to go into blocks mode, find area of block I want to modify, copy clip, go back to song mode, paste over top and modify.

[Data_Shrine]

I just started working with blocks. Is it possible to launch them (start/stop) as in Live arragement view ?

[selig]

Blocks are cool but I'd like the ability to right click on a block part in song mode and convert it to a song clip so I can modify (or maybe double click?). Currently would have to go into blocks mode, find area of block I want to modify, copy clip, go back to song mode, paste over top and modify.

You can currently only convert the entire block to "song clips". Would be nice to be able to convert individual clips, and would be REALLY nice to go the other direction: convert selected song clips to Blocks. Not to mention Block launching…

Blocks has always felt half-finished to me.

[RandomSkratch]

Blocks are cool but I'd like the ability to right click on a block part in song mode and convert it to a song clip so I can modify (or maybe double click?). Currently would have to go into blocks mode, find area of block I want to modify, copy clip, go back to song mode, paste over top and modify.

You can currently only convert the entire block to "song clips". Would be nice to be able to convert individual clips, and would be REALLY nice to go the other direction: convert selected song clips to Blocks. Not to mention Block launching…

Blocks has always felt half-finished to me.

Yeah it has potential! Just realise it!

[selig]

Blocks are cool but I'd like the ability to right click on a block part in song mode and convert it to a song clip so I can modify (or maybe double click?). Currently would have to go into blocks mode, find area of block I want to modify, copy clip, go back to song mode, paste over top and modify.

You can currently only convert the entire block to "song clips". Would be nice to be able to convert individual clips, and would be REALLY nice to go the other direction: convert selected song clips to Blocks. Not to mention Block launching…

Blocks has always felt half-finished to me.

Yeah it has potential! Just realise it!

I've tried, but I guess I have expectations based on how other products work and also on how Reason works with patterns. For example, I was expecting Blocks to echo the pattern based devices such as the Matrix or ReDrum. Specifically, the ability to play a pattern and cue up a second pattern to start at the end of the current pattern.

As it is, I use Blocks to label my songs, and also to label alternate mixes/edits and to select for export. Other than that, Blocks have not proven as useful as similar features on past products I've used. Hopefully the Props will listen to user feedback and update this feature at some future point!