Reason Sounds Sound Dated

[selig]

I experienced this very phenomena with the bass guitar. On day one of a new purchase, I was enraptured by the brightness of the percussive sounds coming forth with each slap and pop. When I noticed the degrading of my appreciation of the sound. I tried the fix the problem by buying: new string, new pickups, ne amp, new bass (4, 5, and 6 strings), new pedals, new plugins, new rack extension, new audio interface, etc. After reaching a point of no hope that anything would ever sound good again, I thought that perhaps the sound had become muddied by all the processing. So I went back to a raw, unprocessed signal. Eureka! That lasted about 10 days and the cycle began again... Fast forward 10 years and I discovered a secret: if you never ever use the phrase (or thought) "I wish I could sound like..." something amazing happens: you stop comparing what you have (or lack) with others and you begin to love your sound again. Or you could spend all your time and money chasing a sound that is as elusive as the feeling you get the first time you try something new. Give in to it and it will make you its batch. Sigh. I miss the days of a Portastudio 4 track, a Casio keyboard, a Dr Rhythm drum machine, and the audacity to think I could write my ticket with the music I could make on this poor man's recording studio.

^^Mic Dropped^^



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[frog974new]

Reason sounds just how you use it.

may be the best pro tips here

[Benedict]

Sadly people are all looking for a "use plugin X and turn the knob to 48.3% and all your tracks will be killer" answer and it doesn't work that way.

I could write a song that was a perfect technical copy of ABBA's Dancing Queen and assume that as the first was a huge hit (and still selling today) my song would do the same. Bucks Fizz and Luv did a bit of that and made a decent pile of coin from it but in every case, whilst ABBAesqe those bands offered something unique. But unless you are my age you probably know ABBA but not Bucks Fizz or Luv. This is the clue.

Making the most of Reason and getting those big warm, engaging sounds is about doing the work to make those very things. Reason offers relatively low-level devices and lets the user build em up with Combinators and especially CV but if you don't use that unique strength of Reason then you run the risk that your sound will be as flat as the effort you put in.

[ravisoni]

And that's what the OP was trying to say here. Reason 9 tackled it by giving us this new reason 9 sounds, but the old soundbank still just sits there, stale.

So what do you want then? Change the entire old soundbank? And make all songs up to now useless?

No need to get salty, I'm not an unreasonable individual, and I'm not really demanding anything here either.
And I'm sure you can yourself come up with another solution than wipe out all the old sounds... that was just silly.

[ravisoni]

Sadly people are all looking for a "use plugin X and turn the knob to 48.3% and all your tracks will be killer" answer and it doesn't work that way.

I could write a song that was a perfect technical copy of ABBA's Dancing Queen and assume that as the first was a huge hit (and still selling today) my song would do the same. Bucks Fizz and Luv did a bit of that and made a decent pile of coin from it but in every case, whilst ABBAesqe those bands offered something unique. But unless you are my age you probably know ABBA but not Bucks Fizz or Luv. This is the clue.

Making the most of Reason and getting those big warm, engaging sounds is about doing the work to make those very things. Reason offers relatively low-level devices and lets the user build em up with Combinators and especially CV but if you don't use that unique strength of Reason then you run the risk that your sound will be as flat as the effort you put in.

Totally get that point, and I understand and appreciate the modularity of our DAW here. However, not being able to use that unique "strength" ought not to be a requisite to make good music, and like I said in a previous post, even if just for the sake of inspiration, it becomes important to include other material that helps a different kind of user just the same. And if it was something as complex as some of us asking for rack extensions, I'd understand the complexity involved, but well-and-polished sounds seems like not a big ask, at least it doesn't seem that way.

The thing about such discussions is that it almost always turns to "it must be done this way," or "if you're not doing it this way, you're using the wrong DAW," or "if you don't have a better solution, just live with what you got and stop complaining, you can't have everything." It deters from others giving constructive feedback or even asking for something that they feel will make their productions better. While the get-your-hands-dirty-to-the-deeper-levels is a strength of Reason, the real strength of any DAW should only be judged on its capability of empowering different "types" of users achieve their musical goals. Frankly, I don't think anyone was happier than I was when Reason 9's new soundbank came out. Made my time with music a whole lot easier and more joyful, and it'd certainly go a level beyond with more sounds to play (and and minimally modulate) with.

I'll bow out of this thread.

[househoppin09]

Well said, ravisoni. I haven't spent much time with the R9 sound bank, but just going by what everyone has said about it, it's an excellent step up from the previous FSB content, yet not quite enough of one. It's really easy for sound designers to underestimate just how many users are absolutely dependent on standard factory patches, and just how important it is for any DAW to come stocked with a full assortment of presets that are not only decent, but absolutely top-notch. It sounds like the new R9 sound bank got part of the way toward that goal, but not quite all the way yet. The Props should take that to heart--their job there isn't done as long as any sizable percentage of users is saying "eh, these sounds are a bit lacking compared to what I get in [whatever]", which does unfortunately still seem to be the case. To protest that it's up to those users to do their own sound design or buy appropriate ReFills is not a smart answer, tempting as it may be.

[deepndark]

If the source isn't good - it will sound shit. Masking the shit sound with effects helps, but that's not always a solution. And if the DSP of all the stock effects also lack in quality, you can't expect to get better sounds with these given tools. I'm not saying all the stocks suck, but there's some truth to it too. There's some gems in almost every soundbank tho, but I can say I also hate to browse and seek for better patches, when I'm excited to write music LOL.

[Stock Music Musician]

3 quick points.

First, if you're doing most genres of hip hop, they're classics that you're trying to emulate are all sample based. The trick to making your tracks sound fresh involves re-sampling your midi tracks, throwing a bunch of "dust" on them and then manipulating them as samples, not notes.

Two, don't forget to layer you sounds. Combining a few stock basses or kicks or pads sounds a lot better.

Three, I think it's fair to say that the stock patches in the FSB are, generally, not as inspiring as some other DAWs (Maschine comes to mind - almost everything there sounds perfect from the get go). However, with rack extensions, refills, and an understanding of Reason, you can absolutely get the same or better results.

[KEVMOVE02]

How is it possible for a musical instrument (or a sample library) to sound "dated"? The use of the word here doesn't comment on the quality or fidelity of the sounds produced, but speaks to the sounds belonging to another time period which has fallen out of favor today. I think it is more accurate to say that "the FSB doesn't include any sounds that I have not heard before" or "the FSB doesn't include sounds that are included in other products." I concede that hearing sounds or samples that you have not heard before can be quite inspirational, but its not the prime directive. Most often, taking an existing sound, then altering it in some unexpected, becomes the source of so called new sounds. That being said, the Roland TR 808, the Moog synth, and the DX7 are all examples of sound generators that despite being quite old, I have never heard anyone refer to them as being "dated". If you say they are overused, now we have something to talk about. In the meantime, I will go back to playing my NES Classic and reminisce about all the rights of passage associated with it. How do you play an 8 bit game without inducing temporary blindness or a migraine headache. The graphics are so bad!

[Marco Raaphorst]

is Motown sounding dated? that overdriven tambourine sound.

how would be describe dated?

[QVprod]

I think there's a unrealistic expectation for stock sounds here. No daw I've tried has stock sounds that are the best of the best and won't require layering of some sort. There's a reason the combinator is such a big deal. I remember thinking Xpand2 was wack back when I first tried producing in Pro Tools. You could consider it stock sounds at the time. Now I realize how great Xpand2 is (after buying it for $0.99) because I know how to use it properly. I'm not even talking about deep synthesis knowledge as my own knowledge beyond basic subtractive synthesis is limited.

But layering is a simple technique that I believe everyone should learn, and it's simple. And when one doesn't want to do that there's always refills.

[Oquasec]

I know the basics of about 15 types including fractal synthesis.
Thor itself is 6 types by itself. [which is a lot]
Subtractor is 3 types [fm, subtractive, PD]
maelstrum granular.
nnxt is wavetable if you use wavetables.

And of course for more you gotta go rack extension and/or midi ox/emi/rewire.
Orrr a combinator for additive using subtractors or thors using those fm oscs with different settings on them stacked and connected via the back of the rack

[Data_Shrine]

If they update the FSB, I hope they keep the old stuff in there as well.

Maybe its just me but a whole lot of Ableton instrument stock presets arent great either (talking about Analog, Operator.. which arent included with the standard version of Live). I almost always end up making my own sounds with them. But some of the effects have good presets (like the Saturator).

[Marco Raaphorst]

I think there's a unrealistic expectation for stock sounds here. No daw I've tried has stock sounds that are the best of the best and won't require layering of some sort. There's a reason the combinator is such a big deal. I remember thinking Xpand2 was wack back when I first tried producing in Pro Tools. You could consider it stock sounds at the time. Now I realize how great Xpand2 is (after buying it for $0.99) because I know how to use it properly. I'm not even talking about deep synthesis knowledge as my own knowledge beyond basic subtractive synthesis is limited.

But layering is a simple technique that I believe everyone should learn, and it's simple. And when one doesn't want to do that there's always refills.

In my opinion Native Instruments always includes excellent patches with their products. These are very well designed imo. Even for Reaktor instruments.

[QVprod]

I think there's a unrealistic expectation for stock sounds here. No daw I've tried has stock sounds that are the best of the best and won't require layering of some sort. There's a reason the combinator is such a big deal. I remember thinking Xpand2 was wack back when I first tried producing in Pro Tools. You could consider it stock sounds at the time. Now I realize how great Xpand2 is (after buying it for $0.99) because I know how to use it properly. I'm not even talking about deep synthesis knowledge as my own knowledge beyond basic subtractive synthesis is limited.

But layering is a simple technique that I believe everyone should learn, and it's simple. And when one doesn't want to do that there's always refills.

In my opinion Native Instruments always includes excellent patches with their products. These are very well designed imo. Even for Reaktor instruments.

I agree, but in the context of a DAW, those are 3rd party instruments. That includes Machine. I wouldn't consider those "stock sounds" in this context. For clarity, I mentioned Xpand2 because it came stock with Pro Tools.

[Oquasec]

I use third party also [Xpand 1 dollar edition, sonivox 1 dollar edition, old omni1 license]

[chk071]

I use third party also [Xpand 1 dollar edition, sonivox 1 dollar edition

Got those too. Couldn't resist, for a Dollar.

[Oquasec]

Yep.Most recent vst purchases beside that reaktor 6 upgrade.

[siln]

the best sounds i get from reason synths and re are with very few settings and 2,3 effects , most of the fsb patches are over complicated patches with ie the whole thor matrix used , it s good to show the potential and the programmers skills but i dont need it that way , all the fsb samples are good and useful ie there are the most simple perc/drums and some not processed and some processed is all i ld need, but i can get the most inspiration from a raw waveform and a reverb and i understand why they dont need to make so simple presets , but im not targeting a "pro" lvl so you have your views

[JerrelTheKing]

I cant believe this lasted 3 pages. This topic comes up all the time. No DAW has great stock sounds. None. Thats what VSTs are for and in the Reason world Rack Extensions and Refills. DAWS are about sequencing and workflow. Sounds are what you make yourself or separately purchase. OP even admitted to getting great sounds out of refills (both of which I own and are amazing). The RE synths we have in the shop will get you wherever you need to be. Also for hiphop there are soooooo many available drumpacks you can buy in various places online. Stop relying on DAW stock and you wont have a problem.

[Karim]

I experienced this very phenomena with the bass guitar. On day one of a new purchase, I was enraptured by the brightness of the percussive sounds coming forth with each slap and pop. When I noticed the degrading of my appreciation of the sound. I tried the fix the problem by buying: new string, new pickups, ne amp, new bass (4, 5, and 6 strings), new pedals, new plugins, new rack extension, new audio interface, etc. After reaching a point of no hope that anything would ever sound good again, I thought that perhaps the sound had become muddied by all the processing. So I went back to a raw, unprocessed signal. Eureka! That lasted about 10 days and the cycle began again... Fast forward 10 years and I discovered a secret: if you never ever use the phrase (or thought) "I wish I could sound like..." something amazing happens: you stop comparing what you have (or lack) with others and you begin to love your sound again. Or you could spend all your time and money chasing a sound that is as elusive as the feeling you get the first time you try something new. Give in to it and it will make you its batch. Sigh. I miss the days of a Portastudio 4 track, a Casio keyboard, a Dr Rhythm drum machine, and the audacity to think I could write my ticket with the music I could make on this poor man's recording studio.

^^Mic Dropped^^



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Tears falls down in my face.. Really 'touchy' post . [emoji108]

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[JerrelTheKing]

Also Native Instruments isnt a DAW they are a "sounds" company soley. They shouldnt be compared. Reason started as a competitor maybe but they are no longer in the sound business as evidenced by no longer including instruments with each update.

[Oquasec]

Yep, as is the other bajillion thirdparty "sound devs' out there.
Reason is one of the few daws though, with many option right at the beginning.

[SA Studio]

Also Native Instruments isnt a DAW they are a "sounds" company soley. They shouldnt be compared. Reason started as a competitor maybe but they are no longer in the sound business as evidenced by no longer including instruments with each update.

Yourself and others should be asking yourself WHY we don't have access to them - Kontact and other VST's.

The bottom line, is that Propellerhead and Steinberg do not get along.

[chk071]

Also Native Instruments isnt a DAW they are a "sounds" company soley. They shouldnt be compared. Reason started as a competitor maybe but they are no longer in the sound business as evidenced by no longer including instruments with each update.

Yourself and others should be asking yourself WHY we don't have access to them - Kontact and other VST's.

The bottom line, is that Propellerhead and Steinberg do not get along.

No. Bottom line is that PH are not crazy, and implement something which would completely make their own unique approach obsolete.