"Ernst explains VST decision" Props blogpost

[EdGrip]

https://www.propellerheads.se/blog/when ... -in-reason

I thought about putting this in the Articles discussion forum, but thought it would get seen here. Mods, it's up to you.

[EdGrip]

Hints at an update of the IDT SDK.

[normen]

Hints at an update of the IDT SDK.

To me it sounded more like an update to the actual sampling functionality in Reason. Maybe disk streaming? But maybe I'm just projecting my hopes here

[unisyn]

Though I'm happy about VST support
what a bucket load of self-contradictory statements.

[normen]

Though I'm happy about VST support
what a bucket load of self-contradictory statements.

Yeah, kind of.. I guess the correct statement would be "I still think its a dumb idea but so many people wanted it and I didn't want to bother with those imbeciles anymore"

[EdGrip]

I dunno, I read it as "VSTs still aren't as good as REs for integration with this DAW but I admit they're not as bad as they used to be so fine, have them."

[normen]

I dunno, I read it as "VSTs still aren't as good as REs for integration with this DAW but I admit they're not as bad as they used to be so fine, have them."

Nothing changed about VSTs since REs came out and Ernst knows that. Its software like any other software and I don't think the general ratio of bug-ridden to bug-free software changed in the last few years. If anything it changed to the worse because you can so easily publish updates and patches now.

Anyway I'm not really trying to make a serious point here

[Heater]

It's a great decision and I'm glad they made it.

[Gorgon]

Though I'm happy about VST support
what a bucket load of self-contradictory statements.

Yes.

There is only ONE Reason(!) for Propellerhead to take this step, and that's because it's the only way they can guarantee significant growth. Everybody who would rather use Reason but doesn't because of the lack of VST support is now on board, also the ones who are sitting on the fence. And for new DAW adepts, Reason is now a viable choice instead of an instant no.

That humbug about "amazing VST in the LAST FEW YEARS". As if there weren't any killer VST's before that.

[JerrelTheKing]

It's a great decision and I'm glad they made it.

THIS!

[kuhliloach]

Keep the feedback coming, he said. OK Ernst.

When CEO's Need To Kindly Be Asked To Leave

Like most things Ernst says and does I feel pretty uncomfortable reading that article. No, Ernst, my music does not require VST's. It never did and it never will. The fact that you made that statement raised my eyebrow almost to the other side of my head.

I doubt there is a statement possible that could better insult the basic purpose of Reason. But if you are looking for a statement that supports the desperate consumerism that is plaguing today's music production industry Ernst has your back. If you need someone to tell you your DAW isn't good enough as it is -- incomplete -- just read Ernst's words. I have a lot of respect for the roots of Reason, and while I can appreciate Ernst's legacy contributions this is just madness.

At what point should beginners cross over from learning to hand holding? Should a new customer learn all the ways to sidechain or simply buy Pump? My answer is you don't DESERVE Pump until you know how to mimic Pump using Reason's built-in tools. The more features are added, and the more plugins that are released, the easier it is to have formula music and no skills. Is this really the Reason future Ernst wants? It's reminding me of the direction of the Pro Tools industry: making customers feel inferior while overcharging them for plugins they don't really need.

And once your watered down project has no purpose Allihoopa is there too, to further dilute the create fire that might exist. Because sometimes, when things are tough, its better to just give up and admit you are not good enough?

No. No, I say. Screw that.

[EdGrip]

.....................and then on the other hand there's me who's just glad to finally get to play with The Mangle.

[borracho]

Brilliant article! Can't wait final release (though I'm already happy with beta - works very well).
It is great to see commitment in all three ways: Reason features, REs and VSTs!

[Southgate]

.....................and then on the other hand there's me who's just glad to finally get to play with The Mangle.

Me too Ed! Me too!

The one vst that I have bought in the past ten years.

[EdGrip]

I must admit I was intrigued at the suggestion that there would be changes or updates to the built-in devices. I'll believe that when I see it (but that's what we all said about VST support).

I think maybe this difference of perspective has to do with when you started with Reason.

If you started with version 1, you maybe think of Reason as an in-the-box electronic music studio of hardware rack kit with a built-in sequencer. Everything that has come since are distractions and dilutions of that.

But I came in at 8.3 - by then, Reason was undoubtedly a proper DAW. I wanted a DAW, Reason was one, and it was the DAW I found most appealing. As a DAW, plugin compatibility is just a thing that it should probably have. The RE format didn't get the uptake from the big developers that they maybe hoped it would and so VST compatibility needed to happen sooner or later. I'm glad it has.

As for not deserving Pump until you know how to do it the old-school way - nah. Snobbery again. Sickeningly, there are people who are not very technical but are very artistic and sparking with ideas. It's entirely their right to have an easy process from thought to execution if they like.

[kuhliloach]

I must admit I was intrigued at the suggestion that there would be changes or updates to the built-in devices. I'll believe that when I see it (but that's what we all said about VST support).

I think maybe this difference of perspective has to do with when you started with Reason.

If you started with version 1, you maybe think of Reason as an in-the-box electronic music studio of hardware rack kit with a built-in sequencer. Everything that has come since are distractions and dilutions of that.

But I came in at 8.3 - by then, Reason was undoubtedly a proper DAW. I wanted a DAW, Reason was one, and it was the DAW I found most appealing. As a DAW, plugin compatibility is just a thing that it should probably have. The RE format didn't get the uptake from the big developers that they maybe hoped it would and so VST compatibility needed to happen sooner or later. I'm glad it has.

As for not deserving Pump until you know how to do it the old-school way - nah. Snobbery again. Sickeningly, there are people who are not very technical but are very artistic and sparking with ideas. It's entirely their right to have an easy process from thought to execution if they like.

Well said... Maybe I've been over pumped by all this EDM. Think I'll go sidechain my brain.

[platzangst]

It continues to amaze me that there are some people who will pick at anything, regardless of whether it may benefit them or not.

"We've decided to hand over this golden apple to you. Enjoy it, it's an apple made of solid gold."

"(rolls eyes) Well you said years ago you weren't handing out golden apples, so obviously you can't be trusted!"

[EdGrip]

I remember photographers complaining when digital cameras became affordable and mainstream, saying it would make it too easy. I bet they had the same complaint when autofocus turned up. Smash the looms!

[EdGrip]

"But you said golden apples were rubbish and would only make the DAW crash of we had them anyway! You said the golden apple ban was for our own good!"

[esselfortium]

My answer is you don't DESERVE Pump until you know how to mimic Pump using Reason's built-in tools.

You don't deserve to drive a car until you can build your own from parts.

You don't deserve to use a spoon until you've picked up those mashed potatoes in your bare hands and stuffed them into your face.

Years ago, when Reason 6 came out with Pulverizer, The Echo, and Alligator, my first reaction was a selfish "So what? I can already do all those things with the existing tools, and now everyone will be able to make the effects I've put so much effort into custom-making for myself!" As it turned out, not only did Echo and Pulverizer quickly become invaluable parts of my workflow, but by making those more complex effects simpler to set up, they allowed me to take my own style further. They expanded my ability to create new and interesting sounds because I didn't have to reinvent the wheel every time, so I could spend that time building from a better starting point.

It's always been possible for someone to load up a bunch of presets and write a song that way. As always, whether that song is actually worth listening to do will depend more on their musical talent than anything else. It's a shortsighted and self-defeating form of selfishness to demand that your tools remain as limited and difficult as possible to keep newbies out.

[lowpryo]

At what point should beginners cross over from learning to hand holding? Should a new customer learn all the ways to sidechain or simply buy Pump? My answer is you don't DESERVE Pump until you know how to mimic Pump using Reason's built-in tools. The more features are added, and the more plugins that are released, the easier it is to have formula music and no skills. Is this really the Reason future Ernst wants? It's reminding me of the direction of the Pro Tools industry: making customers feel inferior while overcharging them for plugins they don't really need.

there is no answer to that question. everyone's creative journey is different and unique. there's no "DESERVE", and PH shouldn't police the "skills" required to make music. they should create a platform that can accommodate as many different workflows as possible, as long as it doesn't get too convoluted, or interfere with what already works.

adding VST is just one more option - which doesn't interfere with the rest of the platform at all. you don't have to use it. just stop worrying over what OTHERS do with THEIR creativity.

[kuhliloach]

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

All your points are valid. I was using the word 'deserve' in the wrong way. It meant that people 'aught' to learn basics. I just disagree that customers should continue to buy products instead of invest in their own knowledge--something that is completely free. All this discussion and marketing about new products is great but it seems to coincide with a lack of knowledge about nuts and bolts. They'd rather sell us more stuff than work on the sequencer and the browser. Could this be because knowledge of nuts and bolts removes the need to buy new products? Is it easier to buy an entire plugin than find what you are looking for in the giant pile of sounds you already have? Sure it is--just like ordering a cable from Amazon just so you don't have to dig through that box. But me uttering the word 'deserve' couldn't possibly compare to the weight of a CEO uttering the word 'require'.

[EdGrip]

*nailed it!*

If something you make or do gets easier, for more people, to make or do - and your reaction is negative, you're wrong.
What you're feeling is the fear that what you do might no longer have value, might no longer mean anything, might no longer be worth doing now that "anyone can do it".
It's the fear that the only edge you had was your hard-learned knowledge of operating a complicated and uninviting machine, and that machine has just become easier.
It's the fear that on a level playing field, you might not be enough of an artist. Let it go. People still sing, and find endless new art in it, even though anyone can do it. Your voice is your own.

This rant isn't aimed at anybody in this thread - it's more in response to a general vibe that floats around on this forum sometimes, and especially since the 9.5 announcement. I know that Kuhliloach's comment was more about rampant consumerism than anything else, and I'm guilty of it, and I agree. (Although I also get fun out of it).

[aeox]

I must admit I was intrigued at the suggestion that there would be changes or updates to the built-in devices. I'll believe that when I see it (but that's what we all said about VST support).

I think maybe this difference of perspective has to do with when you started with Reason.

If you started with version 1, you maybe think of Reason as an in-the-box electronic music studio of hardware rack kit with a built-in sequencer. Everything that has come since are distractions and dilutions of that.

But I came in at 8.3 - by then, Reason was undoubtedly a proper DAW. I wanted a DAW, Reason was one, and it was the DAW I found most appealing. As a DAW, plugin compatibility is just a thing that it should probably have. The RE format didn't get the uptake from the big developers that they maybe hoped it would and so VST compatibility needed to happen sooner or later. I'm glad it has.

As for not deserving Pump until you know how to do it the old-school way - nah. Snobbery again. Sickeningly, there are people who are not very technical but are very artistic and sparking with ideas. It's entirely their right to have an easy process from thought to execution if they like.

Well said... Maybe I've been over pumped by all this EDM. Think I'll go sidechain my brain.

using pump, one only limits oneself creatively. the greatest ideas come from the accumulation of knowledge

[unisyn]

What makes me anxious is that it's pretty clear that they don't have the resources to keep Reason up
with it's competitors - the Sequencer, editing etc. + the default Instruments and Effects.
And still, I was convinced they have some sort of vision to keep it unique - CV's and all.
But this explanation really makes me doubt if I should continue investing in this platform or not.