How good is the Delay Compensation?

[Loque]

I am just playing around with the delay compensation and figured out, that i get phasing sounds from some RE like iZotope or FET. When i create a parallel channel with FET inside and increase the lookahead i hear phasing. Well, that was not what i expected with delay compensation.

I heard something about, that Re need to report their delay. If this is the only chance to get correct Delay Compensation with RE like FET, we are lost, because Softube will never fix things like this.

So, maybe anybody can tell me, why there is no complete measurement of the delay, instead of trusting a dev to provide a correct value?

I dId not tried a lot of VSTs, but i am wondering how delay comprensation works there?

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

[AttenuationHz]

I am just playing around with the delay compensation and figured out, that i get phasing sounds from some RE like iZotope or FET. When i create a parallel channel with FET inside and increase the lookahead i hear phasing. Well, that was not what i expected with delay compensation.

I heard something about, that Re need to report their delay. If this is the only chance to get correct Delay Compensation with RE like FET, we are lost, because Softube will never fix things like this.

So, maybe anybody can tell me, why there is no complete measurement of the delay, instead of trusting a dev to provide a correct value?

I dId not tried a lot of VSTs, but i am wondering how delay comprensation works there?

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

Izotope ozone has very high latency. Its probably the worst delay a plug-in can have. Even in Ableton it has a hard time compensating. I think I might test this out myself. I want to understand how the delay compensations works in reason also. What is the delay measurement? ms, samples?

[Loque]

I am just playing around with the delay compensation and figured out, that i get phasing sounds from some RE like iZotope or FET. When i create a parallel channel with FET inside and increase the lookahead i hear phasing. Well, that was not what i expected with delay compensation.

I heard something about, that Re need to report their delay. If this is the only chance to get correct Delay Compensation with RE like FET, we are lost, because Softube will never fix things like this.

So, maybe anybody can tell me, why there is no complete measurement of the delay, instead of trusting a dev to provide a correct value?

I dId not tried a lot of VSTs, but i am wondering how delay comprensation works there?

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

Izotope ozone has very high latency. Its probably the worst delay a plug-in can have. Even in Ableton it has a hard time compensating. I think I might test this out myself. I want to understand how the delay compensations works in reason also. What is the delay measurement? ms, samples?

You can see it ms and samples in a tooltip when hover over the on/off switch.

[QVprod]

I am just playing around with the delay compensation and figured out, that i get phasing sounds from some RE like iZotope or FET. When i create a parallel channel with FET inside and increase the lookahead i hear phasing. Well, that was not what i expected with delay compensation.

I heard something about, that Re need to report their delay. If this is the only chance to get correct Delay Compensation with RE like FET, we are lost, because Softube will never fix things like this.

So, maybe anybody can tell me, why there is no complete measurement of the delay, instead of trusting a dev to provide a correct value?

I dId not tried a lot of VSTs, but i am wondering how delay comprensation works there?

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

Izotope ozone has very high latency. Its probably the worst delay a plug-in can have. Even in Ableton it has a hard time compensating. I think I might test this out myself. I want to understand how the delay compensations works in reason also. What is the delay measurement? ms, samples?

You can see it ms and samples in a tooltip when hover over the on/off switch.

You can manually adjust the overall compensation for a chain further on the back of the mixchannel.

[AttenuationHz]

I am just playing around with the delay compensation and figured out, that i get phasing sounds from some RE like iZotope or FET. When i create a parallel channel with FET inside and increase the lookahead i hear phasing. Well, that was not what i expected with delay compensation.

I heard something about, that Re need to report their delay. If this is the only chance to get correct Delay Compensation with RE like FET, we are lost, because Softube will never fix things like this.

So, maybe anybody can tell me, why there is no complete measurement of the delay, instead of trusting a dev to provide a correct value?

I dId not tried a lot of VSTs, but i am wondering how delay comprensation works there?

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

Izotope ozone has very high latency. Its probably the worst delay a plug-in can have. Even in Ableton it has a hard time compensating. I think I might test this out myself. I want to understand how the delay compensations works in reason also. What is the delay measurement? ms, samples?

You can see it ms and samples in a tooltip when hover over the on/off switch.

You can manually adjust the overall compensation for a chain further on the back of the mixchannel.

Holy balls didn't know that, that might actually make getting nice grooves going. That's pretty epic!

[BPGeez]

You can manually adjust the overall compensation for a chain further on the back of the mixchannel.

Um can we please bring back the thumbs up??? Gems like this shouldn't go unnoticed

[AttenuationHz]

You can manually adjust the overall compensation for a chain further on the back of the mixchannel.

Um can we please bring back the thumbs up??? Gems like this shouldn't go unnoticed

1 2 3 4 I declare a thumb war

[CephaloPod]

I think we need a pretty in-depth tutorial on how to use delay compensation in Reason. I've never messed with delay compensation at all in any DAW other than clicking a couple of things in Preferences.

As for Ozone, it's largely meant to be used on the master bus, end of the signal chain, no? So delay shouldn't matter much?

[AttenuationHz]

I think we need a pretty in-depth tutorial on how to use delay compensation in Reason. I've never messed with delay compensation at all in any DAW other than clicking a couple of things in Preferences.

As for Ozone, it's largely meant to be used on the master bus, end of the signal chain, no? So delay shouldn't matter much?

Well some would argue its meant to be used in standalone to master!

[CephaloPod]

I think we need a pretty in-depth tutorial on how to use delay compensation in Reason. I've never messed with delay compensation at all in any DAW other than clicking a couple of things in Preferences.

As for Ozone, it's largely meant to be used on the master bus, end of the signal chain, no? So delay shouldn't matter much?

Well some would argue its meant to be used in standalone to master!

Well, yeah. Are people inserting Ozone in the middle of the signal chain? Are people recording tracks with Ozone in there somewhere? What's the deal?

[EdGrip]

Tbf the OP said Izotope, not specifically Ozone. From what I can tell you'd never use Ozone as an instrument or channel effect because it has huge latency. It has huge latency because it's supposed to be used in a context where latency doesn't matter.

[EdGrip]

I imagine that where the PDC has all the info about the delay of a particular chain, it'll be right. If there's a device in there mis-reporting or not reporting its delay, it won't be right.

You'd think it would be possible to have a button on the back of every mix channel that probes that entire chain for delay and then calibrates the PDC accordingly. Like Normen's RE does but totally integrated behind the scenes. Or just do this on a fully automatic basis

[groggy1]

I imagine that where the PDC has all the info about the delay of a particular chain, it'll be right. If there's a device in there mis-reporting or not reporting its delay, it won't be right.

You'd think it would be possible to have a button on the back of every mix channel that probes that entire chain for delay and then calibrates the PDC accordingly. Like Normen's RE does but totally integrated behind the scenes. Or just do this on a fully automatic basis

I thought Mattias from Props had said in one of the Livestreaming events: There are some very complex cases where Delay Compensation won't work. E.g. if you have routed between different mix-channels? (I don't recall the exact case, sorry. But the general idea was: reason allows for some crazy/complex routing, and there are some cases where it's just not possible to properly compute delay).

Anyway, I thought I'd mention that. I'm not sure what the routing of audio was that OP has - i.e. trivial case of an effect on a single mix channel, or something much more complex?

[EnochLight]

I also tried some Reason build-in stuff and the phasing is, well, unsatisfying. I played around with compressors and phase inversion and had a quite interesting result. Finally i came up with 3 parallel channels with some phase inversion in it, and 3 parallel channels cannot be saved as one setup . Ok, i tried to recreate with a Mixer and send effects, routing the fx output to a channel and i got horrible phasing again, where the parallel channel work quite nice. So it looks like the Mixer doesnt have any latency compensation in it...

You are aware that you can do this, right?

viewtopic.php?p=336121#p336121

[AttenuationHz]

Tbf the OP said Izotope, not specifically Ozone. From what I can tell you'd never use Ozone as an instrument or channel effect because it has huge latency. It has huge latency because it's supposed to be used in a context where latency doesn't matter.

Tbf using ozone would be the perfect way to test the context of the thread!

[AttenuationHz]

I imagine that where the PDC has all the info about the delay of a particular chain, it'll be right. If there's a device in there mis-reporting or not reporting its delay, it won't be right.

You'd think it would be possible to have a button on the back of every mix channel that probes that entire chain for delay and then calibrates the PDC accordingly. Like Normen's RE does but totally integrated behind the scenes. Or just do this on a fully automatic basis

I thought Mattias from Props had said in one of the Livestreaming events: There are some very complex cases where Delay Compensation won't work. E.g. if you have routed between different mix-channels? (I don't recall the exact case, sorry. But the general idea was: reason allows for some crazy/complex routing, and there are some cases where it's just not possible to properly compute delay).

Anyway, I thought I'd mention that. I'm not sure what the routing of audio was that OP has - i.e. trivial case of an effect on a single mix channel, or something much more complex?

Its in this thread I think viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7500305

[Loque]

Ok, thx for this hints guys. As i now read from the beta thread, there is no overall delay compensation, mainly between mixchannels. That explains, why my setup didnt worked, because i required delay compensation within a Combinator where i had a Mixer and devices connected to the FX send. This produces phasing. Hoped this would be adressed aswell, because i pretty often use such setups to get everything i want within one Combinator.

I gonna try if delay compensation also works, when i use multiple parallel channels from one source and route them back, but i guess it wont work correct. In this case only serial parallel channels will work.

I hope for some improvment on this feature in the future...

[OldSchoolSkunk]

I know that it probably has or hasn't been said.. but a thorough.. but can be deep explanation for Delay compensation is in the manual.. quite a few pages on how to adjust.. and how it works in Reason 9.5 give it a read. Hope this helps.

[AttenuationHz]

I know that it probably has or hasn't been said.. but a thorough.. but can be deep explanation for Delay compensation is in the manual.. quite a few pages on how to adjust.. and how it works in Reason 9.5 give it a read. Hope this helps.

What was that RTFM?

[EdGrip]

For in-combinator PDC, Normen's sample delay device is what you need.

[OldSchoolSkunk]

I know that it probably has or hasn't been said.. but a thorough.. but can be deep explanation for Delay compensation is in the manual.. quite a few pages on how to adjust.. and how it works in Reason 9.5 give it a read. Hope this helps.

What was that RTFM?

Haha maybe it seems like that but looking at it its pretty good but then it gets really deep. I probably wont try all the examples there but it gets complex. So for me i said oh well as long as it works.. i'm good.

[michal22]

I understand that the compensation does not work inside the combinator. There I use VMG Re. However, delay compensation does not work properly even on simple parallel channels. This applies to different Re. For example, please load Dr.Rex with a loop, create a parallel channel and add to it fxpansion d.cam EnvShaper. Horrible sound. We need to set the delay manually, or on each channel add the same plug.

Currently, delay compensation does not work properly for store extensions.

[cryonicPAX]

My maximum was 2500 samples, coused by the FabFilter Pro-L in the masterchain. You could easly deactivate the Compensation for some channels to keep the delay lower.

Ah je, parallel channels have a delay of 4 samples without any pulgin. And the EnvShaper does not send a information about his delay to Reason. Reason is in my opinion not sending a click through all channels to calculate the delay of each one, bcs of the routing options. So Reason have to get the informations from the plugins itself.

[alex]

I understand that the compensation does not work inside the combinator. There I use VMG Re. However, delay compensation does not work properly even on simple parallel channels. This applies to different Re. For example, please load Dr.Rex with a loop, create a parallel channel and add to it fxpansion d.cam EnvShaper. Horrible sound. We need to set the delay manually, or on each channel add the same plug.

Currently, delay compensation does not work properly for store extensions.

FXpansion DCAM effects currently do not report their latency values and thus won't compesate for delay on parallel scenario.
I mailed the issue to FXpansion and they told me they will update thier Rack Extension products to match the new delay compensation feature in R9.5.

Other effects that report latency values should work as expected.

[michal22]

Great. Thanks for this nice news.