Do Propellerhead (RS) owe their loyal customers anything?

[TritoneAddiction]

I've thought about this from time to time and I'm interested in hearing peoples opinions on the topic.

It's not unusual we see people expecting Propellerhead to reward their long time users with discounts, special offers or even free stuff.
Even Propellerhead themselves has a Reward system in place.
I'm hoping we don't get a comment section only focused on the the Reward system though. That would be very predictable. Let's be honest, we all know the Reward system is flawed in many ways. We can touch on that too of course.
But I'm hoping we can get a little deeper than that and look at the question more on a philosophical level.

So...
Do Propellerhead (RS) owe their loyal customers anything?

[diminished]

They don't owe us anything, but neither do we.
What's the saying? Don't bite the hand that feeds you?

[gullum]

when you upgrade to a new version you have paid for the work put into that version, they do not owe you a thing after that, other then they have to fix bugs because they are not supposed to be in the software you paid for. I have paid for futures I have in 10.4 nothing more and nothing less.
I want crossfade but you want combinator 2 did they owe me the crossfade but not owe you the combinator? no they owe us shit. but to stay in buisness they need to listen and add some of the futures we ask for

[Loque]

No, they don't owe us something. If i am unsatisfied, i just don't buy it.

But... I appreciate it to be treated with special care and commit this with locality.

[antic604]

It's not unusual we see people expecting Propellerhead to reward their long time users with discounts, special offers or even free stuff.

I don't see such requests often. What I see instead is people getting frustrated when stuff they bought is offered to new clients cheaply or free, e.g. the Suite pack of REs worth close to EUR1000, but sold for EUR120...

On the other hand that's not exclusive to RS, or even to music-making industry, so it's a universal, global frustration

And more on topic - no, they don't owe us anything. We pay for the version that's available at the moment of purchase and that's it.

[rgdaniel]

I would say they have a legal obligation to make money (or try) for their shareholders, and a moral obligation (as well as a self-interest) to provide quality and value for customers. But I am not in expert in things legal or moral.

[danc]

No, they don't owe us something. If i am unsatisfied, i just don't buy it.

But... I appreciate it to be treated with special care and commit this with locality.

I think there are 2 types of product in the world... something that is used by anyone and everyone... like a toothbrush... and there are other things which have a much smaller group of people that want and use it... like a DAW.

If you lose one tooth brushing customer.. you are likely to quickly gain a new one.

However... with a specialist product like Reason.. you can't be so confident that losing one customer will naturally gain one. There simply aren't enough DAW enthusiasts (and professionals) out there. Yes there is a lot of us... but it isn't a vast market.

I think with Reason, the Props team should take care of their user community... nurture them... and show some consideration with a steady improvement of the product that takes into consideration of the community's requests. For me at least, I feel like I'm being treated like I bought a tooth brush, with a dismissive 'don't care' attitude.

I realise that the Props are a business and they need to make money and so need to focus their attention on where the money is. Just a shame that it's at the expense of caring for their core community.

[Loque]

No, they don't owe us something. If i am unsatisfied, i just don't buy it.

But... I appreciate it to be treated with special care and commit this with locality.

I think there are 2 types of product in the world... something that is used by anyone and everyone... like a toothbrush... and there are other things which have a much smaller group of people that want and use it... like a DAW.

If you lose one tooth brushing customer.. you are likely to quickly gain a new one.

However... with a specialist product like Reason.. you can't be so confident that losing one customer will naturally gain one. There simply aren't enough DAW enthusiasts (and professionals) out there. Yes there is a lot of us... but it isn't a vast market.

I think with Reason, the Props team should take care of their user community... nurture them... and show some consideration with a steady improvement of the product that takes into consideration of the community's requests. For me at least, I feel like I'm being treated like I bought a tooth brush, with a dismissive 'don't care' attitude.

I realise that the Props are a business and they need to make money and so need to focus their attention on where the money is. Just a shame that it's at the expense of caring for their core community.

Well, there is something ppl often forget if they cry about tge upgrade price and not enough features... Its very expensive and time consuming to develop software. I help a few devs in beta of RE and they work hard and invest a lot of time to bring great RE. And there are beta testers and patch creators, often work for nothing and invest a lot of time too. And than i hear ppl raging about the products... And now think how expensive it is to develop a DAW with development, planning, testing, sales, marketing, support,... And take one thing: The more licenses are sold, the better the profit, the more can be invested or prices reduced.

Its so simple...

[guitfnky]

no. if you pay for a piece of software, and they grant you access to use it, then what they owe you has been delivered. that agreement (I give you money to use the features in your product, as it currently stands) is the extent of what is owed.

that of course doesn’t mean loyal users shouldn’t be vocal about what they want, and any disappointment they may feel, if it’s warranted.

[guitfnky]

I think there are 2 types of product in the world... something that is used by anyone and everyone... like a toothbrush... and there are other things which have a much smaller group of people that want and use it... like a DAW.

If you lose one tooth brushing customer.. you are likely to quickly gain a new one.

However... with a specialist product like Reason.. you can't be so confident that losing one customer will naturally gain one. There simply aren't enough DAW enthusiasts (and professionals) out there. Yes there is a lot of us... but it isn't a vast market.

I think with Reason, the Props team should take care of their user community... nurture them... and show some consideration with a steady improvement of the product that takes into consideration of the community's requests. For me at least, I feel like I'm being treated like I bought a tooth brush, with a dismissive 'don't care' attitude.

I realise that the Props are a business and they need to make money and so need to focus their attention on where the money is. Just a shame that it's at the expense of caring for their core community.

Well, there is something ppl often forget if they cry about tge upgrade price and not enough features... Its very expensive and time consuming to develop software. I help a few devs in beta of RE and they work hard and invest a lot of time to bring great RE. And there are beta testers and patch creators, often work for nothing and invest a lot of time too. And than i hear ppl raging about the products... And now think how expensive it is to develop a DAW with development, planning, testing, sales, marketing, support,... And take one thing: The more licenses are sold, the better the profit, the more can be invested or prices reduced.

Its so simple...

I doubt many people fail to understand this. people who complain about lack of features are often questioning the focus of a given release, not whether it’s difficult to deliver or not.

of course there will always be those conspiracy theorists among us who think the devs are just being lazy, doing the bare minimum while they swim around in piles of cash, but I hardly think they represent the majority of complainants.

[Timmy Crowne]

They don’t owe us. We entered into a voluntary transaction because we wanted their software more than we wanted our money. They sold it because they wanted our money more than they wanted their time.

Of course, a business has a financial incentive to pursue customer satisfaction and create an illusion of goodwill and loyalty.

I think the problem is that, over time, our idea of the product’s value becomes distorted by this illusion of goodwill and loyalty. This leads us to make repeat purchases regardless of quality, partly due to familiarity and party due to a desire to support the company.

To illustrate: If I’ve been going to the same barber shop for the last 15 years, it’s probably not because they’re actually the best. Another barber shop could open across the street and offer a shave of equal quality, AND more comfortable chairs, good music and a glass of whiskey all for the same price. So why would I go to my usual shop? Because my barber is named Dave, and Dave’s a cool guy, and I watched Dave’s kids grow up, and Dave understands me.

Which is okay until Dave suddenly moves his shop to the other side of town. Now I want to talk about loyalty.

[diminished]

Too many Daves in all of our lives, man.
(There. We've reached philosophical levels as requested )

[Timmy Crowne]

Too many Daves in all of our lives, man.
(There. We've reached philosophical levels as requested )

Haha, exactly. And not enough of us are Dave.

[MannequinRaces]

I would say they have a legal obligation to make money (or try) for their shareholders, and a moral obligation (as well as a self-interest) to provide quality and value for customers. But I am not in expert in things legal or moral.

Pretty sure they’re a privately owned company, lol.

No they don’t owe us anything but some sort of better loyalty awards would be appreciated.

[Philup]

Then Dave gets older, his hands are not as steady and he starts nicking my ears with his scissors and shaving crooked lines along the nape of my neck.
So I go out and get a set of clippers and start shaving my head bald because I don't want to hurt Dave's feelings.

[guitfnky]

Then Dave gets older, his hands are not as steady and he starts nicking my ears with his scissors and shaving crooked lines along the nape of my neck.
So I go out and get a set of clippers and start shaving my head bald because I don't want to hurt Dave's feelings.

and then Dave wonders if you’ve left town, or died, and gets depressed.

now do you see what you’ve done, you monster!?!??

[boingy]

Then Dave gets older, his hands are not as steady and he starts nicking my ears with his scissors and shaving crooked lines along the nape of my neck.
So I go out and get a set of clippers and start shaving my head bald because I don't want to hurt Dave's feelings.

and then Dave wonders if you’ve left town, or died, and gets depressed.

now do you see what you’ve done, you monster!?!??

I know someone who used to insist on being called David but now insists on being called Dave and gets really annoyed when people describe him as "David Dave" to distinguish him from the other Daves.

Anyhow, I've thought long and hard about it and I'm off to the barber across the street who hands out the free whisky. Sod Dave.

[guitfnky]

people describe him as "David Dave" to distinguish him from the other Daves.

[Philup]

people describe him as "David Dave" to distinguish him from the other Daves.

Last name... Davis.

[Timmy Crowne]

people describe him as "David Dave" to distinguish him from the other Daves.

Last name... Davis.

David Dave Davis = Reason Studios Reason

[reggie1979]

This was brought up in another thread. Well, they have to owe us SOMETHING, right? I mean it sounds like peoples idea of "owe" is something nebulous.

They owe their user base to keep growing and fix bugs. I think people are really over-reacting to all of this. There seems to be a lot of butt-hurt going on over which side you should take. Both sides have valid views, complaining because you are not getting something you wanted is ok.

Now, what I will agree with is the ones who are freaking out saying "I'm done with Reason" like the version you have isn't any good anymore. That's hyperbole.

[rgdaniel]

I would say they have a legal obligation to make money (or try) for their shareholders, and a moral obligation (as well as a self-interest) to provide quality and value for customers. But I am not in expert in things legal or moral.

Pretty sure they’re a privately owned company, lol.

Yeah, I had a feeling... but I never let facts stand in the way of making a point...

[ShelLuser]

Do Propellerhead (RS) owe their loyal customers anything?

No, they do not. In the end this is simply a business transaction: you purchase a license to use their software and that's it.

But they are giving us something anyway: a massive discount on future upgrades. I know all major developers do this, but that doesn't make it any less special I think.

[seqoi]

It's quite simple but people tend to whine and be crybabies. Kids usually.

It's simple because one need to buy Reason because of WHAT IT IS! Simple as that!

Not WHAT IT COULD/SHOULD be. You do not buy Reason for some feature which some other company offer but Reason doesn't have yet. That's nonsense.

When you buy it like that FOR WHAT REASON IS - then everything added to it later - is a bonus. Sometimes paid bonus yes but noone is forcing you to upgrade. On top of it one have 30 days fully functional demo to test out is Reason worth enough for him/her.

Now don't start whining because you bought it but it doesn't meet your expectations.

And no it doesn't have anything with "don't bite the hand which feed you" nonsense. If you think you are feeding props with money and you haven't got anything when you bought Reason in the first place then you are full of self entitlement and that is ridiculous.

So wait you bought one version on Reason with all bells and whistles it was shipped with and you expect what then??

It's so easy to forget moments you enjoyed, tracks you produced, things you learned when you used your Reason you bought from them isn't it..

It is so much more convenient to think Propellerhead owe you something. Hahaha

[MarkTarlton]

I have been pondering this question lately...

What does their BRAND mean to you as a customer? Do they have one that is tangible?

"Brand is the image people have of your company or product. It’s who people think you are."

"It’s the emotional after taste that comes after an experience with a product, service, or company."