Sequencer => wrong scroll behaviour
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Wrong scroll positions are calculated when switching between edit and default sequencer mode.
As a result, you must every time manually correct the scroll position of selected clip or default sequencer view (when exiting edit mode).
If you don't manually correct this, you will end up with part of the clip showed at the end of the screen in edit mode in lieu of the clip showed from the start of the screen. And when exiting edit mode, you will end up with scroll offset, so you don't see your arrangement from beginning. This is totally uncomfortable and unintuitive, weird behaviour.
This sequencer scroll problem is demonstrated in the images I've attached to the post:
- Image 1:
This is the default sequencer view. I have 3 clips, sequencer view is set from the beginning, and I have play cursor set on the third clip.
- Image 2:
If I enter the edit mode for 3rd clip, I will end up with clip showed at the middle of the screen - WHY ? What logic is behind this ? It's obvious and totally natural that I want to see the clip from to start of the screen.
- Image 3:
If I exit the edit mode for the clip, my default sequencer view IS LOST and I can't see my arrangement from beginning. Again, what logic is behind this ? It doesn't make sense and it breaks the natural flow of the composition.
Please Propellerheads (Reason Studios), fix this weird behaviour. It is really important for us to be able comfortably compose music in your software. Thanks.
As a result, you must every time manually correct the scroll position of selected clip or default sequencer view (when exiting edit mode).
If you don't manually correct this, you will end up with part of the clip showed at the end of the screen in edit mode in lieu of the clip showed from the start of the screen. And when exiting edit mode, you will end up with scroll offset, so you don't see your arrangement from beginning. This is totally uncomfortable and unintuitive, weird behaviour.
This sequencer scroll problem is demonstrated in the images I've attached to the post:
- Image 1:
This is the default sequencer view. I have 3 clips, sequencer view is set from the beginning, and I have play cursor set on the third clip.
- Image 2:
If I enter the edit mode for 3rd clip, I will end up with clip showed at the middle of the screen - WHY ? What logic is behind this ? It's obvious and totally natural that I want to see the clip from to start of the screen.
- Image 3:
If I exit the edit mode for the clip, my default sequencer view IS LOST and I can't see my arrangement from beginning. Again, what logic is behind this ? It doesn't make sense and it breaks the natural flow of the composition.
Please Propellerheads (Reason Studios), fix this weird behaviour. It is really important for us to be able comfortably compose music in your software. Thanks.
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THANK YOU for putting into words what is SO annoying!
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- Creativemind
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Yes, I started a thread on sequencer behaviour yesterday.
It's one of things I couldn't think of when I made the thread. I'd say out of the 7yrs I've been using Reason, it's the most irritating thing about Reason. Makes it un-smooth, un-natural. This behaviour needs changing. What is the logic behind it? makes absolutely no sense.
It's one of things I couldn't think of when I made the thread. I'd say out of the 7yrs I've been using Reason, it's the most irritating thing about Reason. Makes it un-smooth, un-natural. This behaviour needs changing. What is the logic behind it? makes absolutely no sense.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
Hmm, I never really noticed this as distracting.
I don't mind the 1st point where you see your selected clip in the context of whole sequence. You can always hit Z to see it stretched. Perhaps this is because most DAWs nowadays let you synchronise timeline with editor, so if you zoom in either the other one will follow and that ensures you always know where you are. I was actually pleasantly surprised Reason *almost* has this, i.e. you can edit the clip in context it just isn't synced, because for example Ableton Live doesn't have this to this day.
I don't mind the 1st point where you see your selected clip in the context of whole sequence. You can always hit Z to see it stretched. Perhaps this is because most DAWs nowadays let you synchronise timeline with editor, so if you zoom in either the other one will follow and that ensures you always know where you are. I was actually pleasantly surprised Reason *almost* has this, i.e. you can edit the clip in context it just isn't synced, because for example Ableton Live doesn't have this to this day.
- Last Alternative
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Agreed. The sequencer isn't very intuitive at all and needs a serious overhaul. Did you alert the "Reason Studios" Props?
I'm about to email them too as soon as I figure out how after they changed their website.
I'm about to email them too as soon as I figure out how after they changed their website.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
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Thanks guys for support. The more people will give some feedback to these things, the bigger chance they will update the sequencer.
I just hope they will notice the thread and consider it seriously.
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There is a ground swell of producers and media personalities who have worked exclusively in Reason leaving the software because they can load their rack investments in other programs with better features. Nearly all of the people who have covered the release has leaned in that direction of being fed up and grabbing the chance to cash out and leave.dusan.cani wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019Thanks guys for support. The more people will give some feedback to these things, the bigger chance they will update the sequencer.
I just hope they will notice the thread and consider it seriously.
Part of that is because they don't have to eat the cost of what they purchased, part of that is excitement over the ease of transition that bringing part of the Reason workflow with them, but a very significant amount of that exodus is the pervasive perception that -- given the evidence so far over the course of 20 years -- RS can't provide meaningful improvements.
In short, there's no belief that the company behind this software is capable of stepping things up to the right level. No one believes that, full stop. And why should they when everything comes out "weird" and half-formed, as though the concepts involved in the design of features that are attempted are themselves poorly understood or beyond the reach of the expertise of those building them.
The best thing out of this release so far is that more and more and more people who have used Reason as their primary production tool are exploring other apps and beta testing the plugin -- and they're opening up with more and more surprise to the features those other apps provide them and that they can no longer live without.
I really have to wonder what they were planning by doing that. The semi-pros who were treating Reason seriously are all stating how blown away they are by "new daw x" they have been trying out now that they can take their racks with them. This isn't a way of strengthening Reason itself, but a gateway drug to the greener grass over the fence. The logical result of this is that people will have their eyes opened wide and never look back.
That's a good thing, because it will ultimately improve the productivity and expressive potential of those producers in ways they can't imagine. In some cases, the tools and techniques available to them now aren't even things they knew existed.
I'm digressing. I'd like to think that they would address feedback, but that's a bit late now.
I personally believe "Reason" will become the company, while the company will mostly just produce effects and instruments.
Because, based on how many rack units there are and how few meaningful and fundamental feature improvements there are in the main program, they just aren't able to deliver anything further than the rack they started with. That's why they're contracting their focus and scaling back to mostly provide the rack no matter where you want to use it. It's all they really know how to do.
They're just hobby synth makers that have been out of their league for a long time, trying to force something to be what it was never meant to be.
They do rack units, not big, complex app designs that have a ton of moving parts that form a cohesive and intuitive gestalt. No way they have the manpower or skillset for that, and it shows. The new blood seems to have made a decision to drop what clearly isn't working and move ahead with what they actually know how to do: crank out lots of devices.
Even the headline marketing video for their core product asks "What is Reason?", not "Welcome to Reason" or anything else. As if to implore their audience, "please tell us, what is this thing and what should it do?"
The dabblers and the hobbyists have largely matured beyond the days of just being happy playing around with old projects that don't crash, stay backward compatible, and never get finished. The paradigm shift that is happening is that on one hand, people want their music to thrive and they are clearly voicing that it can't in this program's best effort at workflow, but on the other hand, there is a silent admission that "times have grown up" and it's probably the better move to seek what you need elsewhere.
But yes, it would be nice if they addressed feedback. I just opine (at length) that this is a bit late in the game.
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- Last Alternative
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They don’t care. It’s been clear for years. Ok, they care about trading your wallet for a “new” $100+ device but bugs and workflow is LAST priority.
And don’t kid yourself thinking they’re reading all our forums for insight or problems to fix. You can tell them directly and wait 10 years for a resolution haha
And don’t kid yourself thinking they’re reading all our forums for insight or problems to fix. You can tell them directly and wait 10 years for a resolution haha
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I can confirm the Scroll behaviour is a mistery, it's this little details in the long run that can mess up your workflow.
Talking about wrong behaviour, check this one out in Kong:
1 - Bring up a new clean Kong pad.
2 - Fill every channel with NN-NANO wave samples.
3 - Go to the last Channel filled, ex: 16 channel
4 - "Edit Sample" and Reverse it, save button
5 - In the same 16 channel, hit the "reverse button" in the "osc" section.
6 - "Edit Sample" again in the same channel, and click "Reverse" again.
7 - Boom! All channels / samples are now "reversed".
8 - Bug or feature ? Don't know.
Talking about wrong behaviour, check this one out in Kong:
1 - Bring up a new clean Kong pad.
2 - Fill every channel with NN-NANO wave samples.
3 - Go to the last Channel filled, ex: 16 channel
4 - "Edit Sample" and Reverse it, save button
5 - In the same 16 channel, hit the "reverse button" in the "osc" section.
6 - "Edit Sample" again in the same channel, and click "Reverse" again.
7 - Boom! All channels / samples are now "reversed".
8 - Bug or feature ? Don't know.
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FWIW this was my deep dive into understanding the often suprising behaviors of edit / song mode scrolling (also cross referenced from the 'Moaning...' thread):
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7513844
The rules I document match exactly what the OP sees (but does not condone it!).
For me the inscrutable scrolling behavior when doing a lot of clip editing has been the biggest productivity drag with Reason.
I suspect the behaviors were a designer's attempt to be 'helpful' in different ways in different situations, but the result is IMHO something too complex to be understood intuitively even with repeated use. A simpler and therefore more predictable approach would be more efficient; perhaps incorporating something like the 'back' concept when toggling between edit/song mode... back means back to where you were, not to some completely new view.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7513844
The rules I document match exactly what the OP sees (but does not condone it!).
For me the inscrutable scrolling behavior when doing a lot of clip editing has been the biggest productivity drag with Reason.
I suspect the behaviors were a designer's attempt to be 'helpful' in different ways in different situations, but the result is IMHO something too complex to be understood intuitively even with repeated use. A simpler and therefore more predictable approach would be more efficient; perhaps incorporating something like the 'back' concept when toggling between edit/song mode... back means back to where you were, not to some completely new view.
I wish.
This POS scrolling behavior has been slowly building up my temper. Sometimes I smirk at it, sometimes I build up a fist in anger and curse reason off.
Thanks for putting it into words what has been in my opinion the biggest bug in the program.
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Is this possibly fixed in 11?Creativemind wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019Yes, I started a thread on sequencer behaviour yesterday.
It's one of things I couldn't think of when I made the thread. I'd say out of the 7yrs I've been using Reason, it's the most irritating thing about Reason. Makes it un-smooth, un-natural. This behaviour needs changing. What is the logic behind it? makes absolutely no sense.
No. No it isn't.reggie1979 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019Is this possibly fixed in 11?Creativemind wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019Yes, I started a thread on sequencer behaviour yesterday.
It's one of things I couldn't think of when I made the thread. I'd say out of the 7yrs I've been using Reason, it's the most irritating thing about Reason. Makes it un-smooth, un-natural. This behaviour needs changing. What is the logic behind it? makes absolutely no sense.
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Bummer.
You'd think this kinda stuff could be coded with relative ease.
You'd think this kinda stuff could be coded with relative ease.
- Creativemind
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You're right. Propellerhead / Reason Studios seem to think it's logical behaviour so they think there's nothing to fix.
I had another issue today when working in a clip and looping using the P command (firstly when using the on-screen piano keys the P command becomes redundant so that's another issue) but when using ctrl D to duplicate notes it somehow duplicated the clip, can't remember how / why now but think I somehow inadvertently had selected the clip instead of the notes. Waste so much time I do with these weird Reason behaviours back and forth here and there undo this and undo that lol!
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
- Creativemind
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You'd think lol!reggie1979 wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019Bummer.
You'd think this kinda stuff could be coded with relative ease.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
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Seriously, I would like to hear some responses from Reason Studios guys.
This thread and others (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7512272&p=446846) clearly shows that there are MAJOR FLAWS within Reason workflow that cause serious problems when composing/editing music in the Reason. It's long time issue for lot of people.
This thread and others (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7512272&p=446846) clearly shows that there are MAJOR FLAWS within Reason workflow that cause serious problems when composing/editing music in the Reason. It's long time issue for lot of people.