Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[tt_lab]

Ok, I did some counting of the numbers:

Reason 11 Suite is 519 € at Thomann, thats more or less 26 months of subscription to Reason+. If someone is using Reason 2-3 months a year at 20 € per month, it would give them more or less 10 years of Reason + use, for the same amount of money you had to pay for Reason 11 Suite.

And the software is always up to date, with possibly new RE's every year. In the case of Reason 11 you probably have had to update it a couple of times, costing you even more money.

The more I think of this subscritption model the more it really starts to make sense and like a really good idea.

I wish my creativity could be scheduled to some 2-3 months a year thou. Plus if you only use reason 1 month a year you could be subscribing 20+ years...Think about it!

[hfw]

Ok, I did some counting of the numbers:

Reason 11 Suite is 519 € at Thomann, thats more or less 26 months of subscription to Reason+. If someone is using Reason 2-3 months a year at 20 € per month, it would give them more or less 10 years of Reason + use, for the same amount of money you had to pay for Reason 11 Suite.

And the software is always up to date, with possibly new RE's every year. In the case of Reason 11 you probably have had to update it a couple of times, costing you even more money.

The more I think of this subscritption model the more it really starts to make sense and like a really good idea.

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

[QVprod]

Can I point out what seems to be a heavily overlooked fact? The rack and devices has always been the core of Reason

.


That has never really been my take on Reason and misses what I consider the most beautiful thing about Reason.

I been using Reason since 2.5 2003.

When I bought Reason, I knew they didn't have the best devices. There were already better VSTis, than Subtractor. Kontakt was a more powerful sampler even back then.




This became more evident as the years passed. Thor which was a groundbreaking eye dropping synth when it was released, was released around the time VSTis started advancing at light speed.


Reason lacked midi out, audio recording, actual sampling of audio input which to some people probably would have thought was a severe curse.

In the 2000s, it wasn't for certain producers/beatmakers who didn't primarily rely on those needs but more of a gift.

All the other DAWS, had audio input, midi out, VSTs (which were constantly getting better). They also had some of the problems that came with it. Crashes. More convoluted workflows etc.


Reason was a breath fresh air.

Solid Efficient coding (proved by how rarely crashes happened or users complaining of them). Also you could take a pretty old machine, install Reason and have fun making tracks.

Great well rounded factory library geared for composing (comparable to hardware workstations).

Nice effects. It was often hard getting good two track mixes with hardware. Reason made it alot more easier and I'm talking about the old mixer here. It was a very effective mixer which in some ways made you focus more on arrangement/sound design than trying to professionally mix your track.

A solid online community who made refills (and plenty of 3rd party developers who offered tons of sample libraries in refill format. IMO I think Reason replaced the Akai sampler more than anything.)

Simple, basic, effective, and easy to understand midi sequencer. Probably the most controversial point as Reason's sequencer was clearly not as advanced as any DAW at that time (although it had a few tricks certain DAWS lacked). Reason as a sequencer feeled the most like a hardware sequencer than any DAW. Very quick for getting ideas down, not so great for editing midi. For a keyboard player, Reason's sequencer is pretty good.

The most important thing though really wasn't the Rack (the modules weren't that great), nor the sequencer (simple, effective, but weak editing). It was the integration of how everything worked together. One company designed the sequencer, Racks, and all working together. Sonar was nowhere near as smooth when it came to workflow. Sonar had great synths, but never really felt like a part of the program.


I think overtime though other DAWS started figuring out how to better integrate VSTIs, improve DAW stability which kind of caught up with Reason. I think also Reason going DAW kind of highlighted many of its weaknesses which weren't really an issue until it became a DAW.



Reason for the last 10 years kind have struggling deciding if it wanted to be a DAW. it has made great strides but still hasn't improved as fast as other DAWS. And it seems the last couple of updates, its hinting as not wanting to be a DAW (with certain feature releases, marketing announcements), which is giving the users on this ride a bump.

That said Reason is still a solid program. If it focused on a few small things, it really could change the game I think.

I think you’re actually agreeing with me. 90% of the functionality of Reason was the rack. Yes the sequencer did what it was supposed to do without complexity, but everything else from the loading presets from the factory library to mixing were related to it’s devices. So if the functionality of Reason was the draw for you, I believe were saying the same thing even if it wasn’t your conscious thought. The DAW aspect, as you say, was never something they fully committed to. They have done enough for it to be useful, but the focus there was more on user friendliness rather competing with other DAWs on features.

That’s what I don’t believe as some do that they’ve shifted gears up til now. On the contrary, I hope that they are shifting gears now (seems like it), because that’s the only way the DAW gets updated.

[hfw]

Like, they are making out that if you own a traditional liscence that somehow your entertainment daw (sickening) will be “out of date”. Like we don’t get big fix notifications when we boot up. Honestly f**k you reason studios for peddling this nonsense. It’s literally the worst of it all. What a fall from grace.

Honestly. “Always up to date” as a main marketing tag. Shocking, shocking behaviour. The guys at props know this deep down. It’s a lie and it’s shady and slimy and shit. Done with props

[Magnus101]

Can I point out what seems to be a heavily overlooked fact? The rack and devices has always been the core of Reason

.


That has never really been my take on Reason and misses what I consider the most beautiful thing about Reason.

I been using Reason since 2.5 2003.

When I bought Reason, I knew they didn't have the best devices. There were already better VSTis, than Subtractor. Kontakt was a more powerful sampler even back then.




This became more evident as the years passed. Thor which was a groundbreaking eye dropping synth when it was released, was released around the time VSTis started advancing at light speed.


Reason lacked midi out, audio recording, actual sampling of audio input which to some people probably would have thought was a severe curse.

In the 2000s, it wasn't for certain producers/beatmakers who didn't primarily rely on those needs but more of a gift.

All the other DAWS, had audio input, midi out, VSTs (which were constantly getting better). They also had some of the problems that came with it. Crashes. More convoluted workflows etc.


Reason was a breath fresh air.

Solid Efficient coding (proved by how rarely crashes happened or users complaining of them). Also you could take a pretty old machine, install Reason and have fun making tracks.

Great well rounded factory library geared for composing (comparable to hardware workstations).

Nice effects. It was often hard getting good two track mixes with hardware. Reason made it alot more easier and I'm talking about the old mixer here. It was a very effective mixer which in some ways made you focus more on arrangement/sound design than trying to professionally mix your track.

A solid online community who made refills (and plenty of 3rd party developers who offered tons of sample libraries in refill format. IMO I think Reason replaced the Akai sampler more than anything.)

Simple, basic, effective, and easy to understand midi sequencer. Probably the most controversial point as Reason's sequencer was clearly not as advanced as any DAW at that time (although it had a few tricks certain DAWS lacked). Reason as a sequencer feeled the most like a hardware sequencer than any DAW. Very quick for getting ideas down, not so great for editing midi. For a keyboard player, Reason's sequencer is pretty good.

The most important thing though really wasn't the Rack (the modules weren't that great), nor the sequencer (simple, effective, but weak editing). It was the integration of how everything worked together. One company designed the sequencer, Racks, and all working together. Sonar was nowhere near as smooth when it came to workflow. Sonar had great synths, but never really felt like a part of the program.


I think overtime though other DAWS started figuring out how to better integrate VSTIs, improve DAW stability which kind of caught up with Reason. I think also Reason going DAW kind of highlighted many of its weaknesses which weren't really an issue until it became a DAW.



Reason for the last 10 years kind have struggling deciding if it wanted to be a DAW. it has made great strides but still hasn't improved as fast as other DAWS. And it seems the last couple of updates, its hinting as not wanting to be a DAW (with certain feature releases, marketing announcements), which is giving the users on this ride a bump.

That said Reason is still a solid program. If it focused on a few small things, it really could change the game I think.

No.
Reason has from day one been all about the rack and how the devices with all the cabling is handled like in a modular studio.
The thing that always was mentioned with total aw in every d-mn review for Reason when it came out was the cable wiggling when you hit tab to switch to the back.
It was all about the fact that you could see the devices and patch them almost physically with cables.
And that "wiggling" thing was the last "proof" for the reviewers of the clever nature of the thing.
That modular rack was what differed from any other DAW when it came out and still does.

Add to that the fact that Rewire was there from day one so nobody had to use the Sequencer AND the fact that you couldn't record any audio tracks until Reason 6 or something. Not to mention the lack of vst-support and the (Still) really lackluster sequencer. No support for recording on multiple different midi-channels/tracks at the same time? What is that?
You had to use Rewire and I did so from the first version. Now I use RE as plug-ins.
It's not the power in single devices in themselves. It's the modular, patching nature of the thing!
And the additional "ecosystem" of Rack Extensions where you get access to (some really great) devices that you don't have access to as vst-i:s. Like Synapse Legend that have lots of ins and outs like a modular Synth. That is not possible as a VST-i.

[tc13]

[/quote]
I wish my creativity could be scheduled to some 2-3 months a year thou. Plus if you only use reason 1 month a year you could be subscribing 20+ years...Think about it!
[/quote]

Creativity is 90 per cent hard work and discipline, why do you think a lot of artists in all fields so often go under the radar for a couple of months to focus on the next release, next book and so on?

For real, I'm probably not using Reason for a month a year. I think the majority of users of any DAW are people having it as a hobby, they might have a couple of nights per month for their music. 519 € is a lot of money for most of us. 20 € a cuple of times per year not so!

[RoryM0]

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

[Melody303]

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

Because until proven otherwise, that is purely marketing spiel from RS.

[Magnus101]

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

You have the answer there.
Monthly cost is €19.99/month.
Upgrades for normal licenses comes out every 12-18 months. Let' say 18 months.
That's about €360 ! F
For it to be equal a new update would have to come out every 129/19.99= 6.55 months.

[RoryM0]

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

You have the answer there.
Monthly cost is €19.99/month.
Upgrades for normal licenses comes out every 12-18 months. Let' say 18 months.
That's about €360 ! F
For it to be equal a new update would have to come out every 129/19.99= 6.55 months.

Hmm. This makes me think how Mattias said that the next upgrade would be 'similarly priced'. I know English is his 2nd language but he seems pretty fluent to me so he probably knows that similar and same are not synonyms. Similar means 'alike but not identical'. I speculate that the standard upgrade price is about to go up for R12. It would likely be perceived as a way to add value to the R+ service in the eyes of RS.

[Threpus]

I speculate that the standard upgrade price is about to go up for R12. It would likely be perceived as a way to add value to the R+ service in the eyes of RS.

That seems likely to me, too. It’s all cost/benefit optics. The game that RS will be playing for the next few years is to try to make the R+ service more worthwhile in relative terms- in the case of comparison to other programs, that will always mean adding utility; in the case of subscription vs. license, it might mean taking function away- or, more precisely, withholding functionality. Many new devices and/or features might become exclusive to the subscription, and before long, the license only applies to a handcuffed version of the genuine program.

[bangaio]

The irony about always being up to date is that propellerheads made their name with recreating out of date no longer produced hardware (other than recycle obviously).

[pquenin]

Please add these 2 little features in R12 :
- a way to add a snap offset on audio clips. Reaper, Cakewalk, Mulab has that (and certainly other DAWs) and it's very handy to position audio clips on the grid based on a point wich is not neceesarily the beginning of the clip. Often you want to align the end (for sound effects), or just after the beginning, at the first transient...
- quantize note end, or note length
And please throw away this subticks thing, and find a pleasant way to integrate the horrible Tools window...

I have installed Reason+ to try it, but my Midi controllers don't work : they appear in the input ports list but the tracks receive no data. I have tried with 2 different Midi controllers but none of them works. Everything works fine in Reason 11.
Am I the only one with this problem ?

[EnochLight]

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

Offensive? For a completely optional service that no one is forcing you to buy?

Like, they are making out that if you own a traditional liscence that somehow your entertainment daw (sickening) will be “out of date”. Like we don’t get big fix notifications when we boot up. Honestly f**k you reason studios for peddling this nonsense. It’s literally the worst of it all. What a fall from grace.

Honestly. “Always up to date” as a main marketing tag. Shocking, shocking behaviour. The guys at props know this deep down. It’s a lie and it’s shady and slimy and shit. Done with props

No, it's neither a "lie", nor shady nor slimy. It's a freaking OPTIONAL product service that appeals to plenty of customers, else subscriptions simply would. not. exist. (newsflash: they do).

So that's great it's not something you see value in - thankfully you can still purchase regular old fashioned updates anytime you want to get up-to-date. Or not. Since you're done with Reason Studios.

Seriously people - this "taking offense" attitude towards a completely optional thing that no one is making you buy is just silly. Please stop.

You have the answer there.
Monthly cost is €19.99/month.
Upgrades for normal licenses comes out every 12-18 months. Let' say 18 months.
That's about €360 ! F
For it to be equal a new update would have to come out every 129/19.99= 6.55 months.

If you never buy any Rack Extensions or don't want all Reason Studios Rack Extensions, then sure - your example makes sense. But those subscribing are getting all Reason Studios Rack Extensions - even the new ones - as long as they subscribe (as well as regular Sound Packs). Assuming a solid RE comes out at least twice a year that costs on average $99 USD each, that's an additional $16.58 USD/month on top of your estimated cost of an upgrade (whatever that may be). Right?

[jamespember]

This idea of “always up to date” is my biggest big bear of all of this. It’s made up to legitimise the switch to subscriptions. It bugs me as they know it’s a lie. They aren’t just waiting around with constant updates and the only thing holding them back till now is lack of revenue stream. It’s BS. They know it and it insults my intelligence. Always up to date is a terrible slogan to tag into daws.

We all know that companies work on a release, release it, bug fix and then move on to next. Subs add nothing to this process. It’s prying on disaster capitalism. That idea of always new etc. Honestly, so annoyed at props for pulling this shit. It’s offensive.

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

Sorry if this is not clear, but "always up to date" is really just what it says. When there is a new paid upgrade available (major version), Reason+ subscribers get that update included as part of their subscription. Perpetual license owners can upgrade via the traditional upgrade paths. It basically means that subscribers don't have to "choose" to stay up to date with the latest major version of Reason, it's handled for them.

[jamespember]

Please add these 2 little features in R12 :
- a way to add a snap offset on audio clips. Reaper, Cakewalk, Mulab has that (and certainly other DAWs) and it's very handy to position audio clips on the grid based on a point wich is not neceesarily the beginning of the clip. Often you want to align the end (for sound effects), or just after the beginning, at the first transient...
- quantize note end, or note length
And please throw away this subticks thing, and find a pleasant way to integrate the horrible Tools window...

I have installed Reason+ to try it, but my Midi controllers don't work : they appear in the input ports list but the tracks receive no data. I have tried with 2 different Midi controllers but none of them works. Everything works fine in Reason 11.
Am I the only one with this problem ?

No, I do seem to remember seeing this bug report on launch day, but I believe it has been handled. Let me look into this for you.

[starflakeprj]

This is my feeling about Reason+ as an owner of Reason 11 Suite, also owning all their other Rack Extensions..

[plaamook]

Hmm. This makes me think how Mattias said that the next upgrade would be 'similarly priced'. I know English is his 2nd language but he seems pretty fluent to me so he probably knows that similar and same are not synonyms. Similar means 'alike but not identical'. I speculate that the standard upgrade price is about to go up for R12. It would likely be perceived as a way to add value to the R+ service in the eyes of RS.

Yep. The term similar is troubling. I usually just update whatever, support the mission. But if they’re gonna try n charge more for junk like R8 or R11...? I’ll start skipping upgrades too.

[stratatonic]

Yeah the 'always up to date' thing has been puzzling me. Within a single release number anyone who has a perpetual Reason license has an 'always up to date' version of the program as point releases have been released free, unless of course they choose not to install the latest point updates.

So 'always up to date' means have the newest numbered version i.e you came in at R11.x and now you have R12.x etc. But how frequently will improvements that constitute an entire numbered increment of Reason be appearing? So often that an R+ subscriber will have paid less than the £129 (current pricing) in monthly subscription fees then I will be paying to get R12 as a one-off payment and therefore be equally 'up to date'?

I don't understand that.

Sorry if this is not clear, but "always up to date" is really just what it says. When there is a new paid upgrade available (major version), Reason+ subscribers get that update included as part of their subscription. Perpetual license owners can upgrade via the traditional upgrade paths. It basically means that subscribers don't have to "choose" to stay up to date with the latest major version of Reason, it's handled for them.

That's what Mattias said in the Livestream when talking about perpetual upgrades...that you just didn't have to do anything in Reason+, but the standard perpetual way was "having to pay extra - whatever it is - couple hundred dollars...it will be priced similarly to how we've always priced upgrades" 45:30
I'm confused with the "similar" word used by Mattias in the video and in a recent Reason Studio blog post. Will the upgrade price still be 129 from any version, or "couple hundred dollars"?

[plaamook]

This idea of “always up to date” ....

Yeah.
My software is already always up to date, thanks.

[plaamook]

Sorry if this is not clear, but "always up to date" is really just what it says. When there is a new paid upgrade available (major version), Reason+ subscribers get that update included as part of their subscription. Perpetual license owners can upgrade via the traditional upgrade paths. It basically means that subscribers don't have to "choose" to stay up to date with the latest major version of Reason, it's handled for them.

That's what Mattias said in the Livestream when talking about perpetual upgrades...that you just didn't have to do anything in Reason+, but the standard perpetual way was "having to pay extra - whatever it is - couple hundred dollars...it will be priced similarly to how we've always priced upgrades" 45:30
I'm confused with the "similar" word used by Mattias and in a recent Reason Studio blog post. Will the upgrade price still be 129 from any version, or "couple hundred dollars"?

Also, you don’t have to choose to be up to date? Can you not choose? Hasn’t anyone ever heard of buggy updates? Doesn’t everyone here have all their auto updates turned off? What kind of selling point is that?!

[Threpus]

I think jamespember could put all of us at ease by assuring us that the upgrade for the next iteration will be $129... and... that the "perpetual license" will include all features and devices that R+ receives in the future. How about it, James?

[EnochLight]

I think jamespember could put all of us at ease by assuring us that the upgrade for the next iteration will be $129... and... that the "perpetual license" will include all features and devices that R+ receives in the future. How about it, James?

Why on earth would he state that? There's no telling if the upgrade price will remain $129 USD - it's been that for many years and it's always possible they'll raise the cost. And why on earth would you think that you would get all devices that R+ receives by buying a regular upgrade? That doesn't even make sense - at no point in history has the regular upgrade came with every RS made Rack Extension.

[Billy+]

Standard upgrade with RS devices included is basically a suite license so over 200 bucks.

If suite is gone then standard upgrade without anything included is what's left.

I'm fine with that as I'm happy to buy the RE's I like, in fact the only one I don't have is Mutator.

But until someone from ReasonStudios actually starts explaining what core is going to look like in 6 months this thread is going to keep growing out of pure speculation.

Maybe they will surprise us all by making core free, + is going to get you the devices & content pack and eventually everyone will be able to buy or rent the Rack Extension bundle they want with an option to change it.

[guitfnky]

Standard upgrade with RS devices included is basically a suite license so over 200 bucks.

If suite is gone then standard upgrade without anything included is what's left.

I'm fine with that as I'm happy to buy the RE's I like, in fact the only one I don't have is Mutator.

But until someone from ReasonStudios actually starts explaining what core is going to look like in 6 months this thread is going to keep growing out of pure speculation.

Maybe they will surprise us all by making core free, + is going to get you the devices & content pack and eventually everyone will be able to buy or rent the Rack Extension bundle they want with an option to change it.

this idea reminds me of the pay-what-you want update (v6, I think?). now that was an update everyone agreed on! lot of goodwill came out of that.