Help with Send/Returns and sending one return through another?

[SJLx84]

Hello,

I'm slowly transitioning from using Renoise as my main DAW to Reason 11 as my main DAW. A feature that I like in Renoise is the ease with which you can set up very complex sends and returns. A simple example of which is setting up a master delay return channel then inserting send devices to that delay return channel on whichever tracks I want to have sent to the global delay return. I then like to have the option of sending the delay channel into the master reverb channel to make everything more cohesive.

It would be nice to be able to do something similar to this using the SSL mixer green send amounts and I can set up a master delay and master reverb in this way easily. But what is the most effective time way to route one return through another. Beyond setting a send amount between the two once that parameter won't need much adjustment.

I can't seem to figure out what is the most elegant solution to this.

Thanks.

[orthodox]

Not sure I grasped the idea, but isn't this what you want?

I'm assuming all the delay now goes through the reverb and you no longer need the raw delay output, for some of the mix channels. If you do still need it, you can duplicate the delay device on another send slot.

[SJLx84]

Going to bump this topic and see if some of the great minds here can assist me with this.

In effect I would like to be able to send effect returns through other sends. For example, send something to the delay and have the option of keeping just the delay return audio as-is. Alternately, it would be good to be able to send the delay return signal out to another send such as reverb just as an example.

I almost had the solution by breaking the default wiring of the SSL mixer and having the sends work as normal, but send the audio into mix channels and use their faders to control returns, that way in the SSL I could click the numbered light and send them to each other. It just was not a very elegant solution in terms of the Mix Channels needing long labelling to be parsable.. I am trying to think about how I could wire a Combinator to achieve multi-send-return monstrosities but I can't quite get my head around it. Does anybody have any ideas?

[Loque]

Going to bump this topic and see if some of the great minds here can assist me with this.

In effect I would like to be able to send effect returns through other sends. For example, send something to the delay and have the option of keeping just the delay return audio as-is. Alternately, it would be good to be able to send the delay return signal out to another send such as reverb just as an example.

I almost had the solution by breaking the default wiring of the SSL mixer and having the sends work as normal, but send the audio into mix channels and use their faders to control returns, that way in the SSL I could click the numbered light and send them to each other. It just was not a very elegant solution in terms of the Mix Channels needing long labelling to be parsable.. I am trying to think about how I could wire a Combinator to achieve multi-send-return monstrosities but I can't quite get my head around it. Does anybody have any ideas?

You are doing it right.

In a Combinator just use a rack Mixer like 14:4 and also manually route the returns into a channel of the mixer. Now you can send each fx to each other. Its just limited to 4 send fx and only 1 has pre-fader.

[SJLx84]

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I created a Combinator housing a Reverb, a line mixer and for ease of sonic clarity a HPF - the mixer takes the Send Channel Input on Channel 6 and I have Split the audio from the Delay in another combinator - One return as normal, one to the Reverb Line Mixer in (via another HPF) so blend in the delay channel to taste. I will either need another Delay Send that does not end up going to the Reverb as well, or otherwise insert delays on a per channel basis rather than using the master send.

I think it works OK for now, especially with some combinator routing etc.

[Benedict]

Wiring a Send to the Effect and then manually wiring to an SSL Mix Channel is the way, assuming you don't do things inside a Combinator, but I get the feeling you really want the Send>Return>Send thing.

However, be aware that this raises potential feedback which is a vastly complex and scary situation in software. So to cope, there is a bit of latency built-in at this point (which is not there using the usual Returns). This is fine for things like delays and reverbs most of the time but will change things if you are looking to make Physical Modeling Resonators or parallel EQing (why you'd do that as a send I have no idea).

This matches the real-world approach that Reason always took. If you prefer a purely digital sandpit, there are other ways like running a VST space like Kushview Element or maybe even Renoise or Bidule if it has a compatible VST (no MIDI back to Reason).