MusicTech: Niklas Agevik talks Reason

[EnochLight]

It feels like it, cause the $20 a month for a side thang fun joy is something you would consider after a lot of other expenses in most households.

I don't think that was the point at all (despite them pushing Reason+ the past couple of years). His point was: Reason (as in ALL music production) is competing for people's attention. Watching movies/TV shows (Netflix) and video gaming (Steam) are constant time wasters, and they need to keep Reason "fun" to invite people to spend time in front of it (Reason) instead of the television or gaming platform watching movies and/or gaming. That's one-time purchase perpetual license holders as well as R+ subs.

I think it goes without saying that Reason hasn't "competed" against other DAW for many, many years - that much has been clear. Reason Studios (then Propellerhead) have constantly stated that they aren't going to play "feature catch up" and try to make parity with all the other DAW out there - that would defeat the whole purpose of Reason.

On an aside, I think often many people forget that all of this - ALL OF IT - Reason, music production, the Internet (which we need to download and activate Reason), plugins, etc - these are all luxuries. Full stop. It's luxuries that none of us really "need" to survive. And before the working musicians say "I need it to put food on the table", well I'd simply say - no. No you don't. There are tons of 100% free plugins and much more affordable DAW out there (some free) that will allow you to make as much music as you want for free. You choose Reason because you want to.

But I digress.. still a good article.

[MattiasHG]

It feels like it, cause the $20 a month for a side thang fun joy is something you would consider after a lot of other expenses in most households.

I don't think that was the point at all (despite them pushing Reason+ the past couple of years). His point was: Reason (as in ALL music production) is competing for people's attention. Watching movies/TV shows (Netflix) and video gaming (Steam) are constant time wasters, and they need to keep Reason "fun" to invite people to spend time in front of it (Reason) instead of the television or gaming platform watching movies and/or gaming. That's one-time purchase perpetual license holders as well as R+ subs.

Pretty much exactly this.

Of course we'll keep improving Reason, regardless if you use it as your primary music making software/DAW or a plugin. Making it the best it can be is the main tool we have to encourage people to be creative and make music instead of binge watch tv shows or play video games (I'm guilty of the latter). That Reason's a bit different from other DAWs doesn't mean we won't try to make the DAW better, either. It just means we want any improvements to fit with and improve the Reason environment and its unique way of working.

[antic604]

I don't think that was the point at all (despite them pushing Reason+ the past couple of years). His point was: Reason (as in ALL music production) is competing for people's attention. Watching movies/TV shows (Netflix) and video gaming (Steam) are constant time wasters, and they need to keep Reason "fun" to invite people to spend time in front of it (Reason) instead of the television or gaming platform watching movies and/or gaming. That's one-time purchase perpetual license holders as well as R+ subs.

Netflix doesn't eat into my music making time.

However, Reason competes for my music making time with Bitwig, or Studio One, or Live / Push 3.

If Niklas wants Reason to compete for someone's time that they're spending in Netflix, then he has a completely different user base in mind than your typical musician / producer. Which in consequence means a completely different product, than what we'd want.

Good analogy would be mobile games vs. PC/console games. Both are called "games", but I wouldn't refer to "Candy Crush" or "Angry Birds" players as "gamers"...

What's annoying is that Niklas is saying one thing, then Mattias comes and says another.

As a result, I still don't know where Reason (as in Reason DAW) is headed

I'd immediately jump on R+ if I knew there's serious development plan for Reason DAW.

---------------------------

To pre-counter typical replies: yes, I use Reason DAW & 100+ REs I own almost daily, I enjoy it a lot and it's the most inspiring of the many DAWs I own. BUT it has couple of low-hanging-fruit workflow features that - if implemented - would help me immensely.

[antic604]

That Reason's a bit different from other DAWs doesn't mean we won't try to make the DAW better, either. It just means we want any improvements to fit with and improve the Reason environment and its unique way of working.

I don't think anyone expects Reason DAW to become Cubase or Live. But there's way to implement similar features that those DAWs have in Reason-specific way.

I mean that's the whole "shtick" of Bitwig! They get "inspired" by Live (and Cubase) all the time, but do it in their own way: they've session view, but different; they've modular environment, but different; they've comping, but different; they've modulation system, but different; they've container & splitter devices, but different, etc... And people actually love them for that! Recently I'm observing a trend with (growing) sub-section of Bitwig users who gave up on requesting features and are simply trusting Bitwig to do whatever they seem fit, because their track record is a testament that they time & again implement something that no one asked for, but it turns out to be something we can't live without!

Maybe that's what RS is planning, but it sure as hell doesn't come through from the official communication or the track record.

[EnochLight]

What's annoying is that Niklas is saying one thing, then Mattias comes and says another.

You and I are interpreting things vastly different, because I am not seeing that one bit. But good on you that you have no interest in watching movies/TV or gaming and will work on music instead. Meanwhile, I've got a shit ton to watch on Netflix and Hulu's spooktacular horror stuff since it's October, and my beats are collecting dust.

[crimsonwarlock]

I don't think anyone expects Reason DAW to become Cubase or Live.

You obviously haven't read many of the feature request discussions here on the forum

[DaveyG]

What's annoying is that Niklas is saying one thing, then Mattias comes and says another.

That'll be Mattias attempting a bit of damage limitation, which tells you that he does not agree with his CEO.

[EnochLight]

[TritoneAddiction]

Well I'm glad to hear this, as I've personally never been interested in any of their side adventures.

"Right now, Niklas says as he sips a can of Swedish IPA, Reason Studios is an office focussed entirely listening to Reason users to make their products better, as opposed to any side quests, if you will, such as apps and hardware."

[ambi]

Niklas Agevic nails it. In my free time I played a lot of video games and watched TV series on streaming platforms. But since Reason version 12 and it's long overdue zoomable HD-UI, I don't play video games anymore and even canceled my Netflix and Amazon subscriptions at some point. Instead I play around with Reason most of the time. I also own a few other DAW's but they don't give me the entertainment that I get from Reason. When I do complex cabling/cv stuff and the cabling/cv works as I intended it to work, it feels extremely satisfying. Also Reason's instruments are just fun to use. Algoritm as an example is the only FM synth that I use because all others that I tried out were complicated and boring af.
I also agree that Reason doesn't necessarily compete with other DAW's as RRP allows you to take it with you to any other DAW that you think suits your needs better.

[avasopht]

It feels like it, cause the $20 a month for a side thang fun joy is something you would consider after a lot of other expenses in most households.
I'd say for the private market he seem to be targeting that is the group of people who might get that Reason+ for the family.
That and the pro's who want to have everything on offer in their studio, which I understand.
Personally I just need to have a place I can call my own. It's feels like more of a predicament to me to be renting my own bedroom studio here.

Think of it like this, ... if you're a gym, yes, you're competing with gyms.

But you're also competing with PlayStation 5. You're competing with hamburgers. You're competing with cigarettes and other bad habits that make the gym painful and will make them less likely to commit.

--

Ooh, just saw the PH staff confirming this.

[MattiasHG]

What's annoying is that Niklas is saying one thing, then Mattias comes and says another.

That'll be Mattias attempting a bit of damage limitation, which tells you that he does not agree with his CEO.

No? I think we’re saying the very same thing, though perhaps with slightly different words. We’re both saying we want to make sure people enjoy music making in Reason. So much so that they even prefer that over watching a streaming show or playing video games when they have time over.

Again, in the interview Niklas says “All of the company is now focused on actually building Reason and making Reason better.” I don’t see how that’s different from what I’m saying either.

As a side note related to other comments I’ve seen, I’ve never understood why “fun” is considered a bad thing by some. It IS fun to make music, fun and incredibly rewarding. It’s less fun to make music when you’re, say, hindered by bugs, when you have to do clunky workarounds to get to your result, when you’re not inspired, when you can’t get the sound you want, and so on. Making something more fun doesn’t mean making a toy.

[EnochLight]

As a side note related to other comments I’ve seen, I’ve never understood why “fun” is considered a bad thing by some. It IS fun to make music, fun and incredibly rewarding. It’s less fun to make music when you’re, say, hindered by bugs, when you have to do clunky workarounds to get to your result, when you’re not inspired, when you can’t get the sound you want, and so on. Making something more fun doesn’t mean making a toy.

^^ THIS ^^

[QVprod]

Guys guys guys… we’re reading way too much into this. There are only 24 hours in a day and so the time you have for making music (in whatever DAW) is in competition with quite literally all other leisure activities. It’s quite hard to play a game and make music at the same time. Most of the people on this forum and probably most music makers in general are hobbyists. That means doing it for fun.

I partially do this for a living, and even for me it’s fun. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be doing it.

[selig]

Guys guys guys… we’re reading way too much into this. There are only 24 hours in a day and so the time you have for making music (in whatever DAW) is in competition with quite literally all other leisure activities. It’s quite hard to play a game and make music at the same time. Most of the people on this forum and probably most music makers in general are hobbyists. That means doing it for fun.

I partially do this for a living, and even for me it’s fun. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be doing it.

Great comment, and although I work in the audio field as engineer/musician for others, my personal music projects are more for my own amusement.

[DaveyG]

It’s less fun to make music when you’re, say, hindered by bugs, when you have to do clunky workarounds to get to your result,

Reason users have been hindered by bugs since the launch of R12. It's only recently that the product reached the quality it should have been at on release. Versions up to and including R11 were easily the most bug free music software on my PC. Reason was rock solid.

Reason is also the music software I use that requires the most clunky workarounds. Two examples:
1. Using a MIDi VST requires third party tools and a MIDI loopback.
2. Recording multiple MIDi takes in a loop.

The latter is unforgivable given that audio recording allows multiple takes. I know that RS are aware of these and other shortcomings but I can't fathom why they have not addressed them.

As for the CEO, [/MODERATOR EDITED DUE TO RULES - DO NOT NAME CALL] He'll screw up the product, oversee the sale of RS to someone and then pocket his bonus and move on.

There are some on here that RS could beat with a stick and they'd still see something positive in the experience but I'm not one of them. Reason has lost much of its soul and will continue to do so with the current CEO. And Mattias, I'm sorry to say this but you mostly seem to come onto this forum to defend stuff, which tells a story in itself. You can't possibly be enjoying your work as much as you used to.

[Eprom]

It’s quite hard to play a game and make music at the same time.

I'm doing exactly that this very minute.
As soon as I get shot and have to await the next respawn, I play music on my 2nd screen.

[EnochLight]

@DaveyG,

I edited your post. I realize a lot of emotions are flying in this thread, so please remember:

rules_reminder.JPG (222.12 KiB) Viewed 2636835 times

To everyone: Reason Studios employees are humans just like you and me, and they certainly don't need to come here. But they choose to, and they choose to occasionally engage with users. We ask that you keep things respectful or we will consider banning accounts. Thanks.

[antic604]

Guys guys guys… we’re reading way too much into this. There are only 24 hours in a day and so the time you have for making music (in whatever DAW) is in competition with quite literally all other leisure activities. It’s quite hard to play a game and make music at the same time. Most of the people on this forum and probably most music makers in general are hobbyists. That means doing it for fun.

I partially do this for a living, and even for me it’s fun. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be doing it.

Again. We all struggle to find free time during the day for our music making between day jobs, family / friends commitments, Netflix/HBO/Prime, etc. and ...that damned sleep. But once we carve out that time, then Reason is competing with other DAWs for many of us.

So, saying that Reason competes with Netflix is just silly.

[Ghostrunner]

Can we expect a new roadmap soon, considering the last one is almost a year old and everything mentioned in it has been implemented? Don't really know who I'm asking here, I guess Mattias would most likely be the person to possibly answer this. Cheers

[dioxide]

Reason is competing with other DAWs from a financial point of view. If you have to watch what you're spending your money on then you'll probably try to cut down on duplication, so while Netflix might stay you might have to drop one of the two Draws you have a licence for that more or less do the same thing.

In my case Netflix helps my music making as my other half is happy watching chick flicks and I can go off to the other room and mess around with Reason. Better than spending it on something like Roland Cloud or plugin of the month.

[integerpoet]

For context, here's the full quote:

"Our mission is to turn music dreamers into music makers,” Niklas Agevik starts, echoing the company’s longstanding mission. "It should be inviting to make music. The competition isn’t other DAWs or plugins; the competition is actually Netflix or Steam – nothing to do with making music at all. When we say ‘turn music dreamers into music makers,’ it’s actually about making it so that you want to come home and start up Reason. It’s about making music-making as fun as it can be."

I categorically deny he is talking about me personally and I am deeply offended at your suggestion that he is.

Also , he totally is.

[integerpoet]

Reason is competing with other DAWs from a financial point of view. If you have to watch what you're spending your money on then you'll probably try to cut down on duplication, so while Netflix might stay you might have to drop one of the two (DAWs) you have a licence for that more or less do the same thing.

I really don't think that way. DAWs are not my hobby. Failing to finish music is.

If I thought some other DAW would allow me to finish significantly less -- I mean more -- music, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat.

All joking aside, now that I'm thinking about it, it seems part of my failing to finish music might be something to do with Reason being enjoyable. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[EnochLight]

Again. We all struggle to find free time during the day for our music making between day jobs, family / friends commitments, Netflix/HBO/Prime, etc. and ...that damned sleep. But once we carve out that time, then Reason is competing with other DAWs for many of us.

So, saying that Reason competes with Netflix is just silly.

So… “carving out time” isn’t competing with the things you literally just listed?! Lmao… ok.

[dvdrtldg]

There are some on here that RS could beat with a stick and they'd still see something positive in the experience but I'm not one of them.

True, but then there are others on here that RS could shower with gifts, cash and DAW improvements and they'd still find something to whinge about

Not attacking you personally, but this thread is a wonderful case in point. Reason Studios CEO drops some bland motherhood statements in an interview ("Reason is fun and engaging! We're committed to making it even more fun and engaging!") and the usual suspects rush in to scrutinise every syllable for portents of doom, which of course they find, and then issue the usual declarations about The End of Reason

Throw in a few jabs at poor old Matthias who sticks his head above the parapet to correct some misapprehensions and is immediately accused of being suspiciously defensive, and you've got the perfect Reason Forum stupidstorm